Proxy wrong ratio compared to original footage using Media Encoder

[Rémi5C95]

Hi everyone,

For days I've been trying to resolve that problem but I haven't found anything that could help me.

I need to make proxies since my computer is not really made for editing. I've created my own preset in Media Encoder for a film which is 1920x808, I chose the Quicktime format and Cineform as the video codec. I change the width and height to 480x202 to have a very light proxy, but it doesn't matter what I do, the proxy comes out with a reduced height, the black stripes are way larger than on the original file.
I've read many things but nothing that has helped me and I'm running out of ideas. I'm a newbie so it is possible the solution is right before my eyes but I can't think of anything.
Any of you guys has an idea to resolve this ?

Thanks a lot

[R Neil Haugen]

Some of the codecs have restrictions on how the proportions have to be figured. So that say all dimensions have to be divisible by 4 or 8 or something. Are you actually getting a precise 480x202 framesize? Check the Properties for the clip.

Neil

[Rémi5C95]

Thank you Neil for your response.

Well I notice now that in Properties the original footage is 1980x808 and the Proxy 480x270.

The weird thing is that my preset in Media Encoder is at 480x202, I can see it when I open its properties. So what should I change in order to have the good famesize ? Like I said I tried Cineform, but maybe should I use a different video codec ?

[Jeff Bugbee]

Can you try Prores Proxy? I find Prores works well with odd resolutions.

[Rémi5C95]

Well, unfortunately I can't find the Apple ProRes video codec in the list, it is not a choice.

I tried create proxies with Shutter Encoder, in which I can find this codec, and indeed the frame size is respected, but the problem when I do so is that the proxy is three frames in advance compared to the original footage even though I make sure they share the exact same images/second. 

Anyway, do you have an idea why I can't find Apple ProRes in Media Encoder? 

[Rémi5C95]

I must add, my PC running on windows 7 I can't install the newer version of Media Encoder, the one I have is the 2018 version. Do you think it's the reason I can't use Apple ProRes ?

[Jeff Bugbee]

Yes that is exactly why you can't. I think Prores export began in CC2019.

Not being able to install a new version is a completely separate issue,why can't you install the new versions?

[Rémi5C95]

Yes I've just found that out... 
I can't upgrade to a newer version of Media Encoder because I'm running on Windows 7 and can't upgrade to Windows 10 because if I did so I would lose all the other projects I'm working on.

Anyway I managed to install it on my laptop which runs on Windows 10 and indeed I can use the Apple Prores video codec. 

So I tried to create a proxy with that one for the video I mentionned. The frame size seems to be ok now, but it is way slower than the original footage, as if it was not the same number of images/sec. Yet I made sure it was exactly the same as the original video (29.976 i/s and it is CFR). Can't figure out what's happening. Have you encountered this kind of problem ?

Thanks for your help

[Jeff Bugbee]

This could be any number of reasons: an underperforming laptop, the original codec might have iffy compatibilty. We're going to need a lot more information to make any sort of informed opinion.

• What are your laptop specs?
• Where is this media from?
• What are the specs of the video file? (codec, wrapper, framerate, etc)

And what exactly do you mean by the file is "slower?"

[Rémi5C95]

I'm sorry I talked too soon, the proxy plays ok in Premiere, it's just that I tried to play it with VLC and that lagged for some kind of reason.

So it plays smoothly in Premiere, but the image is slightly desynchronized with the video. When I hit pause I can see the proxy is 3 frames ahead of the original file. I don't understand why. In media Encoder I chose Quicktime as a Format and Apple ProRes 422 as video codec. I chose "same as source" for the image/sec when creating the proxy and in Premiere I can see in the properties of the media that the original footage and the proxy are indeed the same. And I repeat that it is a CFR file.

I tried to create a proxy with Shutter Encoder using Apple ProRes as well and the exact same thing happens. 

Here are the pecs of my laptop :

Windows 10

CPU : AMD Ryzen 5

RAM : 6,00 Go Dual-Channel 299MHz

GPU : 2048MB ATI AMD Radeon Vega 8 Graphics

One more thing : I created a proxy for another media that as CFR as well using the same method but the result is the same : the proxy is slightly desynchronized with the original footage. So it happens with two different things.

[Jeff Bugbee]

Any chance you can post one of the source clips you are having trouble with? Or at least some MediaInfo details? I don't have enough info about your video footage to point you in the right direction.

[Rémi5C95]

For sure Jeff, I haven't thought to do that earlier. Here it is for the first file I talked about :

General

Complete name : D:\The descent\Onibaba.1964.JAPANESE.1080p.BluRay.H264.AAC-VXT.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size : 1.95 GiB
Duration : 1 h 42 min
Overall bit rate : 2 729 kb/s
Movie name : Onibaba.1964.JAPANESE.1080p.BluRay.H264.AAC-VXT
Encoded date : UTC 2018-11-20 00:06:10
Tagged date : UTC 2018-11-20 00:06:10
Writing application : Lavf57.83.100
Comment : Onibaba.1964.JAPANESE.1080p.BluRay.H264.AAC-VXT

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames : 4 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 1 h 42 min
Bit rate : 2 500 kb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 808 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.40:1
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (23976/1000) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.067
Stream size : 1.79 GiB (92%)
Writing library : x264 core 152 r2851M ba24899
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=4 / deblock=1:-1:-1 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=umh / subme=9 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.15 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=24 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-3 / threads=32 / lookahead_threads=4 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=50 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=2500 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=31250 / vbv_bufsize=31250 / nal_hrd=none / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=3:1.00
Encoded date : UTC 2018-11-20 00:06:10
Tagged date : UTC 2018-11-20 00:06:10
Codec configuration box : avcC

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC LC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID : mp4a-40-2
Duration : 1 h 42 min
Duration_LastFrame : -11 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 224 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 164 MiB (8%)
Language : Japanese
Default : Yes
Alternate group : 1
Encoded date : UTC 2018-11-20 00:06:10
Tagged date : UTC 2018-11-20 00:06:10

[Jeff Bugbee]

Ok that's great info, now can you post your exact proxy settings from Premiere? As well as a MediaInfo view of the resulting Proxy file?

[Rémi5C95]

Sure, when you say "proxy settings in Premiere" do you mean the settings of the preset I've created in Media Encoder for the proxy ? If so, there it is : 

Format : Quicktime 

Both export video and audio are checked

Video Codec : Apple ProRes 422

Quality : 100 (it is greyed)

Width : 480                       Height : 202

Frame rate : based on source

Field order : based on source

Aspect : Square pixels

HDR graphics white : 100

Depth : 8 bpc

Render at maximum depth is not checked, nor Use Maximum Render Quality

Time interpolation : Frame Sampling

As for the proxy file :

General

Complete name : E:\The descent\Proxies_Media Encoder 21\Onibaba.1964.JAPANESE.1080p.BluRay.H264.AAC-VXT_1.mov
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt 2005.03 (qt )
File size : 9.68 GiB
Duration : 1 h 42 min
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 13.5 Mb/s
Movie name : Onibaba.1964.JAPANESE.1080p.BluRay.H264.AAC-VXT
Encoded date : UTC 2021-04-08 15:12:00
Tagged date : UTC 2021-04-08 15:49:02
Writing library : Apple QuickTime
Comment : Onibaba.1964.JAPANESE.1080p.BluRay.H264.AAC-VXT
TIM : 00:00:00:00
TSC : 24000
TSZ : 1001

Video

ID : 1
Format : ProRes
Format version : Version 0
Format profile : 422
Codec ID : apcn
Duration : 1 h 42 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 12.0 Mb/s
Width : 480 pixels
Height : 202 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.40:1
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 5.153
Stream size : 8.58 GiB (89%)
Writing library : adb0
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2021-04-08 15:12:00
Tagged date : UTC 2021-04-08 15:12:00
Color primaries : BT.601 NTSC
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.601

Audio

ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Codec ID : sowt
Duration : 1 h 42 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 1.10 GiB (11%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2021-04-08 15:12:00
Tagged date : UTC 2021-04-08 15:12:00

[Jeff Bugbee]

Thank you for this information!

Any reason you are using Prores 422 instead of Prores Proxy? Your proxy file is almost 5x larger than your source media.

One difference I'm noticing:

Source:  Frame rate : 23.976 (23976/1000) FPS

Proxy:    Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS

This may be why things are getting out of sync, but I'll be honest, I don't know exactly what this difference means. Does the movie seem even more out of sync near the end vs the beginning?

I'm guessing Premiere is not being exact when encoding "based on source." I'm not sure if this is the fault of Premiere or due perhaps to the original x264 encoding.

As a test, you could use Handbrake or even FFMPEG to transcode and see if you're able to get a more in sync proxy. 

Finally, your source footage here is was encoded as H264 with settings designed specifically for playback, not for later reversal and re-edit. Unfortunately, we may be limited as to what we can ultimately do.

[Rémi5C95]

I was just advised the ProRes 422 but you're right, the ProRes Proxy seems a better solution.

Does the movie seem even more out of sync near the end vs the beginning?

No, just the same.

As a test, you could use Handbrake or even FFMPEG to transcode and see if you're able to get a more in sync proxy. 

Do you mean I should try and change the format of the video ?

Damn, that's really strange, I don't understand the difference of the framerate between the source and the proxy.

[Jeff Bugbee]

Do you mean I should try and change the format of the video ?

That's what you are doing when you are creating proxies. You are changing the format. I'm saying try it using a different program to see if you get different results. This can help in determining whether the file itself is the issue or your choice of transcoding application.

[Rémi5C95]

You're right but I already tried to create proxy for the same file using Shutter Encoder and the result was the same : proxy 3 frames ahead of the original footage.

Should I conclude there's a problem with the source file ?

[Jeff Bugbee]

That's the way it's looking unfortunately.

[Warren Heaton]

I'd consider transcoding all of your source footage - both the full resolution and the proxy resolution - to a CODEC that's good for editing.  Better yet, one that takes advantage of Smart Rendering in Premiere Pro. 

And, of course, match all the requirements for Premiere Pro's proxy workflow including having the Proxy frame aspect ratio be proportional to the full resolution frame aspect ratio.

Alternatively, consider switching to your Windows10 machine with an all ProRes422 LT workflow (skipping the Proxy Workflow).  1080p23.976 ProRes422 LT should play fine on just about anything from the late 2000s up.  So, source is ProRes422 LT, Sequence video previews ProRes422 LT and export your edited master to ProRes422 LT. 

[Rémi5C95]

Alright, thank you all for your insights guys