How can I make proxies small enough to allow for Lumetri color effects to not lag?
I created proxies from my R3D 5k footage using an Apple ProRes 422 Proxy preset for 1080p. The proxies tend to be over a hundred MB for a minute of footage. The footage plays back smoothly but Lumetri effects take 5-10 seconds to apply. When I try other smaller sized videos (not proxies or R3D footage) in Lumetri (>50mb) it doesn't lag. So my conclusion is that the file size is the issue.
I've been trying to create smaller sized proxies for the R3D footage as my solution. I've customized ingest presets to Apple ProRes 422 720p, 480p and lower and the issue remains. The file size decreases, along with the quality, but Lumetri keeps lagging. What am I doing wrong here? Am I not taking into account compression?
5-10 sec sounds like if it runs by software renderer instead of GPU... What is the color of the timeline render bar, red or yellow? Is Lumetri the only effect applied?
No, the renderer is set to hardware.
The color of the timeline render bar is yellow when a clip is first placed there, and red anytime I make a slight change, naturally.
Lumetri is the only effect applied. No LUT either.
Working off a G-Tech SSD drive with a USB 3.0 cord. Computer specs: 2020 Macbook Pro, 16gb Ram, 256gb storage, i5 quad core processor, Intel Iris Graphics card
The color of the timeline render bar is yellow when a clip is first placed there, and red anytime I make a slight change, naturally. - This. Normally Lumetri should not turn render bar into 'red'. I have a guess, likely it's related to the
timeline source resolution and available VRAM. Try to lower it to 4K and 2.7K and see what happens. I think there is a build-in conditional in PP. I remember my experience with 1GB GTX750 card - it was totally capable to process 2.7K footage on a 2.7K timeline, but in case of 4K/4K it just switched to software renderer as soon as I added any GPU accel effect. At the same time GPU accel worked fine in case of 1080p source upscaled to 4K timeline. @joshs17272336
So are you saying my only option is to upgrade my GPU? Because I've tried transcoding the 5k footage to ProRes 422 1080p and I'm still having problems.
Should I try to lower the resolution of my timeline as well? I feel like that would mess with the export, no? Right now the timeline settings reflect the source footage (5k raw) and not the proxy footage.
You're planning to export in 5K? That would be the only reason I would know of to have a 5k sequence.
Yeah. Client would like 5k 😕
I think PP do check a source file resolution, not timeline or proxy. It's simple to test if I'm right or not: export small piece of R3D footage in two variants: 1 - full 5k resolution, 2 - 4K UHD resolution. And then apply Lumetri to both, and see if there is difference in performance.
btw, If Intel Iris GPU allows customizing VRAM size - you can try to increase it.
right. I'll try that out! and i'll also try increasing the VRAM if possible. thanks!
Have you tried the ProRes LT?
I haven't! Thanks for the recommendation. Is that an easier codec to use than ProRes Proxy?
You're not just looking at codec bitrate, but how the codec is compressed, designed, and interpreted by the NLE. there's also cineform(which in some instances is easier on the cpu than prores.), or dnxhd.
Also, the resolution size determines the cpu work if you can live with HD proxies for 4k footage. I believe a lot of lumetri's effects are GPU accelerated so you may want to look into upgrading your GPU.
And I also remember that attaching proxies is slower than an offline edit.(which you discovered)
If you hard drive is really old, even the modest size of the files can affect performance too.
Got it. I will try out some other codecs. And my guess is it could also be a GPU issue. Intel Iris is not very robust.
What do you mean "attaching proxies is slower than an offline edit"? Isn't using proxies essentially the same as editing offline?
full offline is using high quality mezzanine copies as the edit and final source. there are no proxies.
IMO people are shooting really high res ( 2k, 4k, etc.) and bitrates ( compression, raw, etc. ) but really just need to export full hd or similar. If you put your computer through the steps to deal with source vs. export you really don't gain much IMO. The solution is to shoot source less res and faster bitrate... like just shoot UHD or full HD pro res ( if you color balance is good at source ) and it's more smooth etc. ( editing in general and cc )
One issue here is that a lot of footage is intended to be exhibited, and many exhibition screens out there now support 4k, 8k, etc. So there certainly will be a noticable difference if we just shoot in HD or UHD.
Another issue is that even if it's not exhibited, digital exhibitors like YouTube or Vimeo compress videos themselves, and so I've heard it best to upload videos at higher resolutions than advised so to reach the desired most optimal viewing.
Most of the colorists I know and work with also do 'deliverables' as a standard part of their role. Including to both networks and all the major streaming networks as well as "long form". 4k is really the highest most of them actually deliver in, and nearlly all say the majority of their jobs still specify a 1080 output.
There are more jobs delivered at 4k than a year ago. That will rise over time. And the number of requests willing to actually pay for HDR services as an add-on is also starting to come up, but is not something the majority actually deliver in. Most colorists simply cannot afford the gear required to do full-on HDR. Monitors of $30,000 or so cost, plus the calibration services that are also needed to satisfy the needs of networks/streaming services, are not yet common in most suites.
Each step up in 'k' makes a much larger step-up in the needs of the hardware. Which is why low-frame-size proxies are the normal thing to use to get around high-K media. Even for many colorists with computers costing over $20,000 that I know.
Really helpful insight here. Thanks so much, Neil!
Editing on a 5K sequence might be heavy for yourn system. Try editing on a smaller sequence and when done copy to a 5k sequence