.SCC File Won't Start at First Frame of Video

[briand1740798]

Help! This is DAY 18 of me trying to solve this problem...

I've been captioning in Premiere Pro CC 2019 with 608 closed captions for .SRT and .SCC.

I've encountered all kinds of bugginess, which primarily was user education for me at the beginning but also encountering bugginess I just cannot seem to get around.

Right now, I have a timeline mastered in 23.976, which I laid non-drop 29.97 .SCC captions on top and edited them all to time. The original file came from Rev.com. I've spent roughly over 40 hours into just this timeline alone, ensuring every single caption was longer than 1.5 seconds for readability. 

Now when trying to export out as a sidecar file, I notice (2) strange occurences: One is that for music lyrics, the musical symbols are missing in various spots. I'll honestly live with that at this point. The second... is that my captions NEED to start at 00:00:00:00 or they will fail QC.

When I drag my first caption to the first frame of video, it doesn't actually appear in my Program Monitor, until about 15 frames in. Even if I set the starting timecode at 00:00:00:00, it will actually start at 00:00:00:15.

I am desperate at this point...If anyone knows how to edit my .SCC so it can start at 00:00:00:00, I would be incredibly grateful.

Brian

[ah_photo]

Now when trying to export out as a sidecar file,

What format are you exporting your sidecar file as?

Secondly, when you import a captions file into Premiere, it essentially becomes a caption clip with a captions stream (CEA-608, 708, etc.). This captions stream has its own independent resolution/frame rate/etc. seperate from that of your sequence. If you right-click your captions stream/clip in your project panel and go to Modify > Captions, does the timebase match your sequence timebase?

[Stan Jones]

I think it is Premiere. Perhaps it has something to do with the oddity of using 29.97 in a 23.976 sequence.

Look at your .scc export in a test editor. Even though the text is unreadable, you can see the timecode. I think you will find it starts at zero. However, when you import it to PR, PR sets that first caption to a beginning timecode of 15 frames.

My other test was looking at the exported .scc in SubtitleEdit. I pulled in a  piece of random video, and the exported .scc starts at the first frame. So you are probably good. I suggest pulling your movie into SE and checking the sync also. I have never really understood the 23.976/29.97 issues with .scc, and you can get sync issues.

My method in PR was what I assume you did. I added the originally exported file, set the caption stream so it was at the beginning, and changed the first caption so its start point was zero (instead of the 15 frames it showed). Even though caption one now starts at zero, PR does not display it on screen until the half second mark - a further indication that what you are seeing is a PR oddity. Then I selected the sequence in the project panel and File -> Export -> Captions and selected .scc. The only options for .scc ( as we discussed before) are 29.97 drop or non-drop.

Let us know (in the other thread) how this project ends when you submit it!

Stan

[briand1740798]

Hi Stan,

Thank you for this. I've been up all night worrying about it! I've never
used SubtitleEdit before but I trust your assessment of the file starting
at 00:00:00:00. Is the 15 frames in PR a known bug? Just curious, if it's
specifically with .SCC files or just a fluke in my project.

I may make one more round of edits, assuming this behavior is predictable
at this point, I can disregard the first 15 frames.

On top of my other troubles, I was having problems with the .SRT in
Premiere 2019 but when I promoted the project to Premiere 2020 on my
roommate's computer, I had no issues upon export.

I deliver in two weeks to Amazon and iTunes, so I'll follow back up when
the delivery is complete!

Best,
Brian

[briand1740798]

Apologies Stan,

One final question...

Keeping in mind that PR may not be accurately displaying the captions
starting at 00:00:00:00, I was just wondering if the caption editor within
Premiere itself mattered, that it has that start time at 00:00:00:15... As
opposed to in my properties column, I have a media start time at
00:00:00:00 and visually on the timeline, you can see first caption at
first caption...

I included a screenshot here in case that didn't make any sense.

[Jerry26273210o9e0]

Stan,

This is the first place I've seen with a similar issue. Hopefully, someone will answer.

I'm using Premier Pro 2022.6

I'm having very similar issues.

1. When using the Alt+13 or the Alt+14 music icon characters with .scc, I end up with a white blocks. I suspect that Premiere Pro 2022 isn't encoding them as the correct hex code, which I believe should be 9137.

I also get sproatic white blocks on apostrophes. I'm chalking this up to Premiere.

2. When I place a blank caption box at the very beginning of a .scc timeline, it does not export and

there is an open space at the beginning of the caption.....which will not match the exported video.

The block only works if I place text within it. Is this a Premiere limitation?

3. I have also seen exports where the first box, with text, comes out shorter than the original. What's with that?

Thanks. Any help with this or in steering me to a forum where this can be answered would be greatly appreciated.

[Stan Jones]

Jerry, what happens to me on these scc questions is that I learn something and get more confused. Then, as I did with brian d before in this thread, I never reach a bottom line and lose the thread!

What I learned here (so far) looking only at scc/608 - not 708: The single eighth note is part of the scc "Special Characters" set. The double eighth note is not. When I export scc from PR with an eigth note and a double eighth note, Subtitle Edit reads the eighth note correctly, and then a white box for the double. If I export srt from PR, SE reads both correctly, but if converted to scc, it again shows the eighth note and a white box. Both PR and SE show the code as TWO 9137s.

The right and left single quotes are in the extended scc set, which are not required. PR honors the left (with a 9226 code), but sends "7f" (Full Block, i.e. White Box) for the right. SE (omg, see why I get confused) CONVERTS the 9226 to the Standard Character Set Apostrophe (a7), but, of course, can only pass on the 7f block. And the Alt code for a straight apostrophe, PR converts into a curly quote - and there is only a "display" font for 608 captions.

Stan

[Jerry26273210o9e0]

Hi Stan,

Confusing is one word to describe how Premiere works with .scc files. I never had issue with .srt creation.

Were you able to find an explanation for the incorrect output of the timeline?

The fact that the first caption block is shortened has no rhyme  or reason.

With an incorrect output, the caption, used as a side car, is just a waste of time.

Let me know if you discover the root of the issue.

Are these issues bugs in Premiere or just a coding issue out of spec?

I feel as if I have fallen down a rabbit hole and the Mad Hatter is after me.

Thanks