Highlighted

Very poor Premiere Pro performance when dealing with complex projects - Ryzen 3950X

Community Beginner ,
Aug 09, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I had major performance issues with my previous editing system (6-core i7-8700, 64GB memory, RTX 2070, SSD/NVMe only drives) so I upgraded to:

 

  • Ryzen 9 3950X 16-core CPU
  • 128GB 3200 memory: G.SKILL Trident Z Neo
  • Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Hero
  • Kraken Z73 360mm AIO
  • Corsair HX850 PSU
  • RTX 2070

 

But it has done little to help.

 

Simply trying to move the playhead results in a ~27 second delay (like it did on our previous system) whilst Premiere tries to execute the task.

 

Here's the resource utilization of our 16-core Ryzen rig whilst it tries to do this, hence why I believe the issue is software optimization.

 

Action #1: Move playhead
... Seconds Premiere Pro took to execute: 27
... CPU load: 6%
... memory load: 31%
... SSD/NVMed load: 2%
... GPU load: 7%

 

If you want to see this in action, I recorded it and uploaded it to Vimeo:

 

Premiere Pro performance issues - Ryzen 3950X
https://vimeo.com/446204211/3f4cba5121

[video]

 

I broke down each action:

 

Action #1: Move playhead
... Seconds Premiere Pro took to execute: 27
... CPU load: 6%
... memory load: 31%
... SSD/NVMed load: 2%
... GPU load: 7%

 

Action #2: Move playhead
... Seconds Premiere Pro took to execute: 26
... CPU load: 6-95% (95% was hit very briefly)
... memory load: 34%
... SSD/NVMed load: 2%
... GPU load: 7-21%

 

Action #3: Move playhead
... Seconds Premiere Pro took to execute: 24
... CPU load: 6-37%
... memory load: 33%
... SSD/NVMed load: 2%
... GPU load: 7-19%

 

Action #4: Play
... Seconds Premiere Pro took to execute: 1min 44 seconds
... breakdown:


... (a) 1 min 15 secs to render
... CPU load: 5%
... memory load: 33%
... SSD/NVMed load: 1%
... GPU load: 7-19%

 

... (b) 29 seconds to play
... playback has dropped frames
... CPU load: 6-100% (100% was hit very briefly)
... memory load: 33-45%
... SSD/NVMed load: 2%
... GPU load: 7-29%

 

The footage we are working with is 1080p Sony A7S footage (XAVC-S H.264 codec). We use some 4K stock footage, not much.

 

I know few folks edit a feature film on PP but I know some do.

 

Our timeline is large (feature film) and complex. We have approx 70 layers on our timeline, approx 40 layers for complex visual effects and color grade/correction, approx 30 layers for audio (different actors, score, foley, audio effects).

 

We don't use Affer Effects so if we want a SFX, we do it in PP.

 

As a test, we created a copy of our project and deleted half our visual and audio layers (to approx 35 layers), PP immediately started working faster with the delays down to 0 to 5 seconds.

 

Given our editing rig is saying its significantly under utilised when running PP, the issue appears to be with PP optimisation (or lack of) when dealing with complex projects with a large number of layers and effects.

 

I have not reached out to Adobe Support yet, I don't want to be told just to re-install everything when that won't make a difference.

 

Other specs:

 

  • Premier Pro: 14.3.0
  • Windows 10: latest update
  • GPU drivers: updated monthly
  • Memory allocated to PP (PP setting): 118 GB
  • Video Rendering and Playback: Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration (CUDA)
  • Third-party PP plug-ins: Beauty Box by Digital Anarchy. As a test, we moved it, and the performance issues remained.

 

  • All drives are SSD or NVMe:
  • Scratch ... Samsung 970 Evo 1TB NVMe
  • Cache ... Samsung 970 Evo 250GB NVMe
  • Media source (current project) ... 4x WD Blue 2TB SSD in RAID
  • Exports ... SSD Samsung 500GB 850 Evo
    Boot/applications ... Samsung 970 Evo 1TB NVMe

 

No drive is more than 40% full.

 

The machine is just used for editing.

 

Did I just waste ~$3K on a new system that brings a lot more power and memory but little benefit given the issues are with PP optimisation (or lack of)? Is the fix that we simply have to forget trying to edit very complex timelines on PP, and say break it down and edit scene by scene then stitch everything together at the end - far from an ideal workflow... I don't think transcoding (H.264 to ProRes) will be a fix given our system is rarely maxing out on CPU/GPU/memory. Ditto for a proxy workflow.

 

Any guidance would be appreciated.

TOPICS
Hardware or GPU, Performance

Views

200

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more

Very poor Premiere Pro performance when dealing with complex projects - Ryzen 3950X

Community Beginner ,
Aug 09, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I had major performance issues with my previous editing system (6-core i7-8700, 64GB memory, RTX 2070, SSD/NVMe only drives) so I upgraded to:

 

  • Ryzen 9 3950X 16-core CPU
  • 128GB 3200 memory: G.SKILL Trident Z Neo
  • Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Hero
  • Kraken Z73 360mm AIO
  • Corsair HX850 PSU
  • RTX 2070

 

But it has done little to help.

 

Simply trying to move the playhead results in a ~27 second delay (like it did on our previous system) whilst Premiere tries to execute the task.

 

Here's the resource utilization of our 16-core Ryzen rig whilst it tries to do this, hence why I believe the issue is software optimization.

 

Action #1: Move playhead
... Seconds Premiere Pro took to execute: 27
... CPU load: 6%
... memory load: 31%
... SSD/NVMed load: 2%
... GPU load: 7%

 

If you want to see this in action, I recorded it and uploaded it to Vimeo:

 

Premiere Pro performance issues - Ryzen 3950X
https://vimeo.com/446204211/3f4cba5121

[video]

 

I broke down each action:

 

Action #1: Move playhead
... Seconds Premiere Pro took to execute: 27
... CPU load: 6%
... memory load: 31%
... SSD/NVMed load: 2%
... GPU load: 7%

 

Action #2: Move playhead
... Seconds Premiere Pro took to execute: 26
... CPU load: 6-95% (95% was hit very briefly)
... memory load: 34%
... SSD/NVMed load: 2%
... GPU load: 7-21%

 

Action #3: Move playhead
... Seconds Premiere Pro took to execute: 24
... CPU load: 6-37%
... memory load: 33%
... SSD/NVMed load: 2%
... GPU load: 7-19%

 

Action #4: Play
... Seconds Premiere Pro took to execute: 1min 44 seconds
... breakdown:


... (a) 1 min 15 secs to render
... CPU load: 5%
... memory load: 33%
... SSD/NVMed load: 1%
... GPU load: 7-19%

 

... (b) 29 seconds to play
... playback has dropped frames
... CPU load: 6-100% (100% was hit very briefly)
... memory load: 33-45%
... SSD/NVMed load: 2%
... GPU load: 7-29%

 

The footage we are working with is 1080p Sony A7S footage (XAVC-S H.264 codec). We use some 4K stock footage, not much.

 

I know few folks edit a feature film on PP but I know some do.

 

Our timeline is large (feature film) and complex. We have approx 70 layers on our timeline, approx 40 layers for complex visual effects and color grade/correction, approx 30 layers for audio (different actors, score, foley, audio effects).

 

We don't use Affer Effects so if we want a SFX, we do it in PP.

 

As a test, we created a copy of our project and deleted half our visual and audio layers (to approx 35 layers), PP immediately started working faster with the delays down to 0 to 5 seconds.

 

Given our editing rig is saying its significantly under utilised when running PP, the issue appears to be with PP optimisation (or lack of) when dealing with complex projects with a large number of layers and effects.

 

I have not reached out to Adobe Support yet, I don't want to be told just to re-install everything when that won't make a difference.

 

Other specs:

 

  • Premier Pro: 14.3.0
  • Windows 10: latest update
  • GPU drivers: updated monthly
  • Memory allocated to PP (PP setting): 118 GB
  • Video Rendering and Playback: Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration (CUDA)
  • Third-party PP plug-ins: Beauty Box by Digital Anarchy. As a test, we moved it, and the performance issues remained.

 

  • All drives are SSD or NVMe:
  • Scratch ... Samsung 970 Evo 1TB NVMe
  • Cache ... Samsung 970 Evo 250GB NVMe
  • Media source (current project) ... 4x WD Blue 2TB SSD in RAID
  • Exports ... SSD Samsung 500GB 850 Evo
    Boot/applications ... Samsung 970 Evo 1TB NVMe

 

No drive is more than 40% full.

 

The machine is just used for editing.

 

Did I just waste ~$3K on a new system that brings a lot more power and memory but little benefit given the issues are with PP optimisation (or lack of)? Is the fix that we simply have to forget trying to edit very complex timelines on PP, and say break it down and edit scene by scene then stitch everything together at the end - far from an ideal workflow... I don't think transcoding (H.264 to ProRes) will be a fix given our system is rarely maxing out on CPU/GPU/memory. Ditto for a proxy workflow.

 

Any guidance would be appreciated.

TOPICS
Hardware or GPU, Performance

Views

201

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Aug 09, 2020 0
New Here ,
Oct 05, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Hello Paul, I'm noticing the exact same thing right now. Just purchased a new system with a 3950x and a 1080ti. CPU/GPU usage during export hasn't once gone over 10%. Render times seem extremely sluggish for the power of the system. I'm looking for a fix. Have you found any?

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Oct 05, 2020 0
Community Beginner ,
Oct 05, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Make sure you have latest Nvidia drivers installed.

 

Make sure you have CUDA GPU Acceleration selected

... CUDA File > Project Settings > General > Video Rendering and Playback, set the Renderer to Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration (CUDA)

 

Have the latest version of Premier installed

...  Premiere Pro 14.2: Adobe has added support for GPU-based H.264/H.265 (HEVC) hardware encoding which allows you to utilize specialized hardware built into NVIDIA and AMD GPUs to improve export performance when exporting to H.264 and H.265.

 

During export, the GPU should be heavily used.

 

Follow puget systems recommended hardware guide (use multiple drives etc)

... https://www.pugetsystems.com/recommended/Recommended-Systems-for-Adobe-Premiere-Pro-143/Hardware-Rec...

 

Our issue was terrible performance during editing and timeline scrubbing due to very complex timelines with 60+ layers and lots of effects, despite following all the guidelines.  The fix for us was to transcode our h264 footage into prores 422.

 

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Oct 05, 2020 1
Adobe Employee ,
Oct 05, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Hi Paul,

In my opinion: Cody's CPU might not the best choice for performance of H.264 footage playback. I would choose an editing codec to edit a heavy project with instead. Proxies could work too. An AMD processor does not have decoding capability for H.264 footage like Intel has with Quick Sync. 

 

What you can try: duplicate the project file. Download Premiere Pro Beta. See if you get better performance, as there is GPU accelerated decoding of H.264 footage in an upcoming version.

 

If you need to stay in the current version, if there's any way you can reduce the amount of tracks you are using, that can help performance, I think. However, for AMD machines, the current solution is one you already found: transcode. 

 

One other thing that may help Cody is to use the Productions feature, where one can divide your project into smaller chunks, taking some of the strain off the machine when these items are not needed. This keeps things running leaner, system wise.

 

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Kevin

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Oct 05, 2020 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 05, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Definitely that project should be handled in Production workflow mode. Would make a massive improvement in general playback.

 

Neil

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Oct 05, 2020 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 05, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Note: Your Vimeo link isn't accessible due to permissions.

You're set up pretty well and my first thought, which would have been a hard drive bottleneck, may not be likely since you're on an SSD raid.

My disclaimer: I've only worked on one feature-length project so my personal experience is fairly limited.

As far as my approach to that feature project, I did have it broken down into various scenes rather than trying to do everything in one massive timeline (until the very end). And it doesn't sound like it was as complex of an edit. Not much in the way of VFX or anything, and what there was all happened at the end.

A couple just general call-outs: I know you don't like the idea of a proxy workflow, but most high end productions are going to work with editing codecs one way or another.

I'm not sure what stage you're in as far the edit goes, but if you're doing VFX and color grading while you're still in editorial, you may want to try using a Global VFX Mute. (And at no point would I expect to be getting real-time playback on complex VFX without rendering first.)

If you've recently updated the Premiere version (not recommended while in the middle of a large project) you should make sure to clear the media cache. Obviously on a large project it's going to take a while to load all that back, so maybe give that an overnight if you need to.

If you weren't having this problem before 14.4, maybe consider rolling back to a previous version, although I think it's highly likely that it's just the size and complexity of your project, the many layers, VFX, including some third-party plugins (and I think beauty is known to be pretty intensive). Hopefully the Global FX Mute can be helpful, and hopefully other more seasoned feature editors can chime in.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Oct 05, 2020 2
Community Beginner ,
Oct 05, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Very helpful guidance. Thanks PhillipJoseph, Kevin and Neil.

 

"What you can try: duplicate the project file. Download Premiere Pro Beta. See if you get better performance, as there is GPU accelerated decoding of H.264 footage in an upcoming version."

 

Wow, outstanding. I have been wishing for this.

 

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Oct 05, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 05, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Admittedly, I'm a little bit confused by the Beta suggestion.

 

Quicksync has been around for a while, but I thought 14.2 introduced GPU-accelerated decoding? KevMon: Is there something else coming up?

https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro/faq-all-about-hardware-encoding-in-premiere-pro-14-2/td-...

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Oct 05, 2020 0
Community Beginner ,
Oct 06, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

 Premiere Pro 14.2 introduced GPU-based H.264/H.265 (HEVC) hardware encoding, not decoding.  The GPU encoding massively improved export times.

 

Quicksync has indeed been around for a time and working well with PP.  I believe that only improved export times and only for those with an Intel CPU that supported Quicksync.

 

After Kevin's post I did a bit of searching and Adobe's latest PP beta does indeed include hardware based decode of H264 & HEVC for those with NVIDIA or AMD GPUs.  That will improve the editing workflow, timeline scrubbing etc for those using these GPUs with H.264/H.265 (HEVC) footage.  It may help make the proxie workflow a thing of the past for some, we'll see.

 

It's great to finally see this feature.   With so many PP users using H.264/H.265, it's going to help a lot of users.

 

DISCUSS : NVIDIA GPU decode for H264 & HEVC

https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-beta/discuss-nvidia-gpu-decode-for-h264-amp-hevc/td-p/11...

 

DISCUSS : AMD GPU decode for H264 & HEVC
https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-beta/discuss-amd-gpu-decode-for-h264-amp-hevc/m-p/114863...

 

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Oct 06, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 06, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Yep. You're right. I don't know why I was thinking it was also decode for the longest time. I even did a whole bunch of codec testing and thought I saw more GPU usage in 14.2 with h264/5 compared to previous, but in looking back at those charts, it's such a nominal difference as to be generally non-existant. Will look forward to update that brings Premiere into the world I've been living in for the past 6 months, haha. I don't usually work with h264/5 but I know a lot of people do so I want to keep up with those changes.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Oct 06, 2020 1