Big problem with numbered lists

[framerobouser]

Hi,

I´m using the techsuite for singlesourcing from FM to RH by reference. Now I have a few questions:

(1) The font of the numbers in my numbered lists is different and too big. I activated the option "convert automatic numbered list in HTML-list" and mapped the fm-style to an rh-style with a numbered list.
Here´s the code:
<ol start=1><li style="list-style: decimal;" type=1 class=p-List3><p class=List3>xxtextxxxx.</p></li>

Well, it is double-formated - but if I don´t activate the option mentioned above - no "real" lists are generated, only some kind of "textnumbered"-lists without tab.

Now, I already figured out, that I have to set the correct size in the OL, UL tags in the css manually. I´ve done this in the fmstyle.css, but it had no effect. The class p-List3 is not part of the chapter-css, so maybe here´s the problem.
So I tried to correct it in the css which are generated for each chapter, but unfortunately, the correction is deleted after the forced update. So what to do?

(2) What for are the "Other"-styles in the styles-dialog?


(3) The zero-point of the indents seems to start somewhere different for nearly every abstract ;-(

(4) Text-alignment in tables: In FM celltext is top-aligned - but in RH it appears centered.


Thanks for your help
--framerobouser

[Peter Grainge]

Welcome to the forum.

Sorry but I cannot answer your specifics but maybe this link will help.

Look on the right and you will see two categories that contain a number of blogs by some of the Adobe guys.

http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/

[framerobouser]

thank you, but I already read the whole day all the most important blogs like:

http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/2007/11/framemaker_and_robohelp_style.html
http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/2007/11/how_to_convert_framemaker_toc.html
http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/2007/11/editing_style_information_in_r.html
http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/2007/12/editing_styles_in_robohelp_for.html
http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/framemaker/

otherwise I wouldn´t have the slightest chance to get that far 😉 so thank you for this great blog (I wish half of this in would be in the online help)
but the point is, see above, some important questions are still troubling me ... I wonder, doesn´t anybody use numbered lists in their documents? cmon!

--framerobouser

[Peter Grainge]

The problem here is people who have expertise with both FM and RH. Hopefully someone with such knowledge will pick up this post. I just hoped the blogs would help but you were already familiar with them.

[Guest]

re: (1) I can only speak from personal experience. I got frustrated with the output of ordered lists so I mapped those styles to 'conventional' styles and included the autonumber from the frame file. This approach worked sufficiently for me; it may not for you.

[framerobouser]

quote:

---

Originally posted by: ^^&&^^
re: (1) I can only speak from personal experience. I got frustrated with the output of ordered lists so I mapped those styles to 'conventional' styles and included the autonumber from the frame file. This approach worked sufficiently for me; it may not for you.

---

Did I understand this right? You didn´t activate the option "convert automatic numbered list in HTML-list" and so the autonumbers from the framemaker file are generated as "normal text" without tab-space, just like:
"1. xxxx text xxxx xxxx text xxxx xxxx text xxxx xxxx text xxxx
xxxx text xxxx xxxx text xxxx xxxx text xxxx"

This works indeed, but I would prefer this solution:
"1. xxxx text xxxx xxxx text xxxx xxxx text xxxx xxxx text xxxx
xxxx text xxxx xxxx text xxxx xxxx text xxxx"

best regards,
frame

[JainVivek]

Please be aware that there is a interplay between dialog options - Convert Autonumbers to HTML lists and Ignore Autonumbers. Also, you should ignore autonumbers for FrameMaker styles which may be used in pagination. Final choice depends on your specific project.

[framerobouser]

in the end I decided to use the same solution as member ^^&&^^:
I deactivate the option "convert automatic numbered list in HTML-list" and add a few blanks in my fm-ordered-list-style to simulate the tab
disadvantage: now I have to import this special styles before generating the online help, but it works for me

--frame

[dmagnum74]

Hi, Framerobouser,

How did you insert the blanks in the fm-ordered-list-style to simulate the tab?

I'm also having trouble automatically inserting a space between my numbered/bulleted characters and the text that follows them.

Thanks.

[framerobouser]

Hi dmagnum74,

I made a special framemaker file with special style-definitions
I import the styles in my book before I reference the files in Robohelp

in framemaker:
in the style dialog, there´s a tab "numbering"
in the field "format of automatic numbering" I just added a few blanks at the end
(in this example I used underscores instead of blanks to make the position visible)
•\t____

in Robohelp:
you have to adjust the right indent of the mapped style

it´s just a workaround, hope this helps ...

[dmagnum74]

That is a great idea. I feel like I've tried all other suggestions, to no avail. This should be an adequate workaround. Thanks, Frame.

[Guest]

Okay, not to muck this up even further, but I am totally confused with how to make my lists (numbered lists, bullets, etc) look in RH exactly how they look in Frame. The existing information on this site has not helped me at all.

On the Frame side, I've tried using the \t building block, I've tried using the \t building followed by a couple of spaces, I've tried just using spaces.

I've tried every conceivable combination of settings in the RH Style Settings>Style Mappings dialogs. No matter what I do, the updated step number in RH never looks correct. Tab characters are simply stripped out. When I modify the fmstyles.css, then map my Frame styles to the new ones I created in fmstyles, the change gets overwritten and the results are still unacceptable (poor alignment of multi-line steps or bullets). When I check the HTML code, it appears that RH is adding styles on top of the ones I created in fmstyles.css. Manually changing this stuff after updating in RH is NOT an option because we have thousands of topics and we need this to be 100% automated. Can somebody PLEASE explain to me how this works and how I can get numbered and bullet lists to look correct?

Adobe, this is your cue - we need a specific procedure and/or work-arounds WITH examples on how to retain the formatting of our numbered and bulleted styles with tab characters on the RH side. I am not a novice but this is almost as bad as the Kadov coding, in my opinion.

[JainVivek]

If you have numberings like 1. (a) (i) in FrameMaker, you may not be able to get the same type of numbering by using the option "Convert Autonmbers to HTML lists". RoboHelp will indent the lists by lose the preceding numbering text, for example, 1. (a) (i) will convert to (i).

[pamj54]

I have spent all day trying to figure out the ordered lists in RoboHelp. This is so frustrating. After several hours, I have the lists indenting correctly. I did this by first selecting the option 'Convert AutoNumber to HTML List". Then, I created a Style in RH which I simply selected the Bullets and Numbering format and select the Numbering style that I wanted to use. I mapped my FM style to my RH style and walah... it looks great. HOWEVER, my problem is that I have a Step 1, Step a. Step b. Step 2. situation. The Step 1 and Step a. and b. look great, but then instead of Step 2 saying Step 2, it is picking up the order from the a, b, and it reads Step 3. It uses the correct format as far as using the numbers instead of letters, but it is following the lettering. For instance, if I add a Step c. before Step 2, then Step 2 reads Step 4.

The only way I can fix it is to manually edit the paragraph tag that should be Step 2 and say renumber starting at "2". But manually fixing what should be automated is not an answer.

If anyone has been through this and figured it out, please help!
Thanks!

[pamj54]

I have spent all day trying to figure out the ordered lists in RoboHelp. This is so frustrating. After several hours, I have the lists indenting correctly. I did this by first selecting the option 'Convert AutoNumber to HTML List". Then, I created a Style in RH which I simply selected the Bullets and Numbering format and select the Numbering style that I wanted to use. I mapped my FM style to my RH style and walah... it looks great. HOWEVER, my problem is that I have a Step 1, Step a. Step b. Step 2. situation. The Step 1 and Step a. and b. look great, but then instead of Step 2 saying Step 2, it is picking up the order from the a, b, and it reads Step 3. It uses the correct format as far as using the numbers instead of letters, but it is following the lettering. For instance, if I add a Step c. before Step 2, then Step 2 reads Step 4.

The only way I can fix it is to manually edit the paragraph tag that should be Step 2 and say renumber starting at "2". But manually fixing what should be automated is not an answer.

If anyone has been through this and figured it out, please help!
Thanks!

[JainVivek]

pamj54

If you are ok sending a sample and your css stylesheet, please send me an email at vivekj at adobe dot com.

regards
Vivek Jain

[JainVivek]

Please check out this post if you have problems with importing FrameMaker lists. An extract follows-

http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/2008/05/imports_framemaker_lists_in_robohelp.html

Please note that RoboHelp considers the string of building blocks, for example, <n> <n> <a> etc to determine the levels in lists.

Named lists in FrameMaker - At present, RoboHelp does not change the level of lists based on names used in autonumber format in FrameMaker. The solution is to use an empty building block in autonumber format to skip a level. For example, if you are using "A:<n+>." as the autonumber format for level 1 list and "a:<a+>" for level 2 list, change the autonumber format for the level2 list from"a:<a+>" to "a:< > <a+>".

Using building blocks in Autonumber format -If you are using auto-number formats to display numbering like 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 and have sub-lists 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, please make sure you are using autonumber format in level 1 paragraph style as "<n>.0" and not "<n><n=0>". If you the later definition in autonumber format, RoboHelp treats the paragraph style as part of level 2 lists and combines them with level 2 lists.

regards
Vivek Jain

[pamj54]

Thanks Vivek. This tip did the trick. My nested lists are now coming in correctly, and keeping the correct order.

[Maryann8]

Here's what finally worked for my books.
We use many lists, and they often contain child lists.

Using unstructured FrameMaker

I have Convert AutoNumber to HTML list checked in Style Settings.
(In the Project Manager, right click on the top icon that represents the book file.
From the drop-down list, select Properties, then the Style Settings tab.)

Requirements for successful nesting of list items:

1.
In FrameMaker, lists must be manually reset to 1 with as special first tag.
(Even though it looks ok in FM without the reset, because I used a reset paragraph with empty brackets)

2.
Second level list must have their own flow tag.
Otherwise, nested lists become entangled,
and headings that follow get nested in the UL tag of the output HTML,
and they will not start a new topic, even if they're supposed to.

3.
Second level lists must start with an empty bracket,
even though they use a separate flow tag than the first level list.

4.
In a second level list, in order for the second list item to line up properly with the first list item,
I had to map both secondary-level list styles
to BodyLevel1 in the Edit Style Mappings dialog box.

To get there: In the Project Manager, right click on the top icon that represents the book file.
From the drop-down list, select Properties, then the Style Settings tab, then click Edit in the Style Mappings field.
Map the secondary-level list styles to BodyLevel1.

Example of two-level lists that works:
Parent level list:
n1 num list
N:<n=1>.\t

n+ num list
N:<n+>.\t

Child level-list

la alpha list first
a:< ><a=1>.\t

la+ alpha list
a:< ><a+>.\t

Produces this display:

To set the pulltest time and tolerance:

[Maryann8]

=============== update ==========================
In the end, I found I could not allow Robohelp to convert any of my FM paragraph styles to HTML.
Robohelp becomes confused during HTML conversion, when lists are nested.
Heading tags become buried inside the UL markup, preventing them from breaking into a new topic.
I spent many hours but could find no fix.

Final conclusion: in Properties / Style Settings, in this initial screen, I do not check Convert AutoNumber to HTML list, or click the Select button. I found that for me, converting to HTML lists does not work properly.

My work flow is to apply a special FrameMaker template before converting to Robohelp.
In that template, I re-format my headings and autonumbers to how I want them to display in help

[Tom.H]

Maryann8, et al.,

I wonder how many people like us have wasted dozens of hours each dealing with this problem. After enough blundering around I have given up on converting to numbered lists, too. My problem is that the numbers and bullets simply look wrong (too big, like other people have found), and there is nothing I can do to correct it.

My problem is compounded by the use of Framesets, which, by the way, is the only way to single source and still have the conventional "Related Links" between native RoboHelp topics and imported FrameMaker topics. Using framesets adds another mysterious layer to the whole mix that makes it impossible to even see what RoboHelp is doing when it converts FrameMaker. Add to that, the poor-quality graphics conversion coming from Frame to RoboHelp, and it makes me wonder if it is even worth it to try to make it work in an automated way.

I have quite a long list of complaints that, if resolved, could make this a really cool product. With the problems in place, it's a very frustrating experience.

... Sorry I couldn't help but vent a little bit on seeing how you came so close to a solution, only to throw up your hands at the end and do a workaround... I keep having the same kind of experience.

Regards,

Tom

[Guest]

Does anyone know if this mess has been cleaned up in RH9? After endless hours, I've gotten almost everything the way I need it to look, but if I have more than one list in a topic the second list won't reset to Step 1. I don't want to have to reset it in RH. Thanks!

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

Sorry, always worked for me in both TCS2, 2.5 & 3.0