Linking/Importing from FM and the pics are awful

[dcrouse10]

I am using the TS3 suite with FM 10 and RH 9.

In FM, the pics (mostly embedded with no original picture file still present) look fine, and the generated PDF or printed docs look fine.

Importing or Linking into RH and all the pics are rubbish.  Much too low res to be of any help, and scaling them up just makes it a bigger mess.  Going to File>Project Settings>Import and selecting the Edit button under FM Document, go to Images: I have changed the default format a few times, adjusted scaling, width and height, with and without Do Not Regenerate and Use Distiller and still I get only rubbish.

Is there a setting someplace to bring the images across at a useable resolution?  Recreating all the images is not a viable option.

Object properties in FM shows most to be DIB/Frame Image, or Frame Vector/PNG.

Thanks for the help.

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

I think you posted this one in the wrong thread - it probably should be in the Framemaker Integration one. There are several postings about images (size & quality) in there.

[Peter Grainge]

Which is where I have now moved it to.

---

See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

@petergrainge

[RoboAsh]

Is your settings "Use distiller to Generate Images" checked in the conversion setting dialog under images section, this might create very good quality images along with that you can set "Width" and "height" to 0 pt or else images will be generated as shown in FrameMaker source (scaled/squeezed).

Hope this helps

Ashish

[dcrouse10]

Thanks for the reply.

I have tried with "Use Distiller..." both checked and unchecked with no difference.

I have also set Width and Height to 0pt with no change.

Is there a setting within Distiller that might help?  It doesn't load visibly but if there is a setting in RH for it, it must be used somewhere along the line.  Maybe its getting filtered at that stage.  Anybody know?

[RoboAsh]

Hmm it seems you yourself found the issue, the distiller option that is used from the FrameMaker, Open FrameMaker 10 and on the same machine

1. open Print Setup for FrameMaker (File->Print Setup)

2. Select Adobe PDF from the printers list

3. Click Properties and select "High Quality Print" from the the "Default Settings" combobox

4. Click OK, Click OK and close FrameMaker

Now try Force Update for FM links in RoboHelp

Hope this might help

Regards

Ashish

[dcrouse10]

Bupkis.  No change.  Neither when changing the print settings in FM, or in Distiller, or even in RH.

Does this ring bells with anybody?  I have noticed that, with all the fiddling I have done, changing settings, checking and unchecking boxes, none of it has had a noticeable effect on the image.  Scaling only makes a bigger pile of garbage (setting to 0% makes the pics go away entirely). Grayscale does make it gray, and JPGing to 50% makes it noisy garbage.  You would think that changing all this would have at least some effect. This makes me think there is an INI or CFG or some kind of settings file somewhere that overrides the knobs inside the program.  I hope not a registry setting!

Thoughts?

[dcrouse10]

Oddly enough, I get better looking graphics if I output from FM to PDF, then import the PDF into RH.  Of course, all the pagination and formatting goes out the window but the graphics are acceptable.

[RoboAsh]

In such a scenario can you sent the snap shots of the images in FrameMaker source and RH genertated topics.

and also can you please specify the format of image being used in FM source and are they embeded or referenced..

last solution you can try placing a marker on these images if they are referenced in FM source and then force update the FM link, it should surely make a difference, or use embeded images in FM source.

And if none of this works in such a scenario please share a sample doc (with just the image) after checking if the issue is reproducible at your end with this doc.

My email ID is ashishchandra.gupta@gmail.com this is the fastest way I can help if I have the source

Regards

Ashish

[dcrouse10]

Hmm,  Curious.

I add a new pic to the file, same format (PNG), same scaling (38%), all embedded, and then dump to RH.  The new pics look fine in the output, while all the old pics are still unreadable.

Is there a hidden flag someplace that may limit the output resolution?  The old pics/files I inherited, and I doubt they were all made with the current version of FM.  Does anyone know of any discrimination against updated FM files?  Some change that could affect the output?

RH creates a CPD file that can become bloated and corrupt.  It can be deleted and will be recreated when needed.  Does FM create a similar file that might have cracks in it?  Clearing that might help.

Thoughts?  Thanks.

[dcrouse10]

More food for thought.

In FM I copy the frame (with pic) of a bad pic and paste it along side.  In RH it both are rubbish.

However, if I copy just the pic in FM and paste it by itself, FM creates a new frame for it.  This pic is fine in RH.

There must be some property of the anchored frame itself that is messing up the import to RH.  Perhaps some artifact of an upgrade from an earlier version, perhaps?

There is nothing out of the ordinary in the any of the properties screens (Object or Anchored Frame) that I can find.  Does anybody (hello, Adobe!) know if there is someplace else to look?  Then, maybe, hopefully, fix the glitch with a script?

Then again, I add a second pic to the same frame and it goes back to garbage again ! ?

These are all embedded pics.

[RoboAsh]

Hi David,

      I went through the FM file that you sent to me over the weekend and would like to discuss some of the issue and improvements that can be done to improve the output.

1. The image in the first frame is too much shrinked with respect to its dpi (the other two images initial dimensions were large enough so that even after reduction to 38 % it is properly visible after conversion) so the % reduction should be decided on case by case basis and should be done according to the initial size (dpi) of images being used, higher the dpi the more reduced images can be used in FrameMaker.

2. Secondly and most importantly the images cannot be better that what you see at 100% view of the PDF because even if you use the distiller route it will bring the image by printing through PDF route of FrameMaker at 100% view and it would be static in the sense it cannot be enlarged in the output (i.e. browser) as compared to PDF output where you have the facility to enlarge the view and see a better view of the image (in a way you have the facility of enlarge the reduction you did in FrameMaker source, thus you see the better image).

so I would like you to compare it with a situation that you are printing (classic printing) such a document to a paper, then would you be able to get a good image on the printed paper (where you don’t have the capability to enlarge the document just like the case of online outputs).

My suggestions

1. The reduction of images should be consistent with respect to original dpi of the image (the more the dpi the more reduction is possible) and use least reduction as much as possible in FM source.

2. In case of multiple images in a single anchored frame - use a text frame to have callouts (you have used a text line) even if you don’t want to use any callout place a blank text frame.

3. For the best results use a single image in an anchored frame and the image should be purely referenced (no callout inside or another image inside the same anchored frame) and set Width/Height as zero in RoboHelp this will bring the original size of image in the online output in RH without any distortion.

NB:- I have tested your source files with these changes and got good results and most importantly your distiller settings (PDF setting) in FrameMaker should be set to "High Quality Print" (you can find in it FIle-Print option of FrameMaker)

Hope this wil help

Ashish

[dcrouse10]

Thanks for the reply.

1>  I'm not sure why scaling should be a problem.  It isn't when the same

doc is viewed in FM, and its fine as a PDF.  The detail is available, so

where does it go when ported into RH?

Docs are fine when printed to paper or sent to PDF.

2>  In FM, at 100%, the image is fine; small but fine.  In RH its unreadable

at any size.  The image quality is gone in RH and I don't understand why the

import process removes image quality.

I can get it to work, sometimes, by new images or if there is only a single

image in a frame, so the process itself CAN retain image quality under the

right circumstances.  But what are they?  Where's the switch?

Thanks again for your help.

[dcrouse10]

Well, not a solution, but it does give me something I can at least work with: do it once and its done.  Thanks to RoboAsh for the inspiration.

To get your graphics to port without loss of detail, add a Text Frame to each Anchored Frame.  There does not have to be anything IN the text frame, just adding it seems to calm the program enough to give good results.  With or without Callouts, or multiple images per frame, it works.

Why?  Haven't a clue.  Just another Undocumented Feature.

My only concern, apart from the extra work involved in fixing this, is what all those text frames will do to the file size.  Hopefully not create too much bloat.

[RoboAsh]

Hi David,

            Please don't worry about the file size it is almost invariant irrespective of placing or not placing the text frame and you can do the experiment yourself with the sample file that you sent to me. and check the file size of the image generated in RoboHelp by Right click-> Explore in the Project Manager before and after placing the text frame with the linked document.

glad to know that it helped.

Regards

Ashish