Min. 50 % photos in search for Stockholm shows photos from other locations

Community Beginner ,
Feb 24, 2019 Feb 24, 2019

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When collecting several photos and adding meta information, the system retag them or add false information att save or upload. How to avoid this except for single upload??

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 24, 2019 Feb 24, 2019

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Abambo​ do you know the answer for this, or is it a matter for MatHayward​ to handle?

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 24, 2019 Feb 24, 2019

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Sorry, the problem are on larger scale, where the system taking over and making decisions about meta´s, it is more a programing issue. Why I write is that it is being growing fast latest month. For me it puts in tags as Istanbul, Prauge Moscow etc. And i presume it makes the same for pictures about those places to, so they end up in searches for Stockholm, where my pictures should be seen only. I think I can avoid it by "save" each picture with titel and then add meta´s "save" and "include" before sending.
I do not now MatHayward, but some that can look into it deeper maybe, Delete the function about where the  photos might be taken. I presume we all know where and the system not. I can think it is very confusing when searchin and more then 50% shows wrong.

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Adobe Employee ,
Feb 25, 2019 Feb 25, 2019

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It sounds like you are referring to the auto-keyword feature. Adobe Sensei recognizes what is in the image and recommends 25 keywords automatically on each file uploaded if there are no keywords already embedded in the metadata. The tool is good but it is not perfect. You need to review each keyword and remove any that are irrelevant before submitting the file for review.

It is also important you resort the keywords and list the most important and relevant words first.

Kind regards,

Mat Hayward

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 25, 2019 Feb 25, 2019

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Hi Mat

This is close to my experience how to use the auto-keyword feature, but it do not work in "batch" mode. I have to save each pic separate. "Select all" or manually "similar" will not allow to ad the same title and metas to all and upload. This part I can work around.

The big problem is that either by purpose or bad understanding search results ending up with to much wrong pics.

See metas for pic 250887406, 250833924​,  250741241 chosed by random from a search for Stockholm they contain tags for "half" Europe.

As a test search for Istanbul it gives 109 721 hits and Stockholm 36 711 hits, if the reults have 50% wrong metas we or the customers have a big problem.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 25, 2019 Feb 25, 2019

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Well that's what Mat says: Sensei can't guess it right and if the user keeps it as this, it stays with all the keywords. I'm quite sure that a building can't be in Poland, Sweden and France at the same time. And specifically for this file 250887406 (Wrocław Breslau Poland - Buy this stock photo and explore similar images at Adobe Stock | Adobe Stoc... ) the user made the error not to delete the misleading keywords and not to add the correct ones (Poland, Warslow, Breslau).

France, Sweden etc will bring more hits but not more sales...

A kind of curation system would be helpful here.

ABAMBO | Hard- and Software Engineer | Photographer

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 25, 2019 Feb 25, 2019

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Well the easiest way is to "talk" to your "AI-System" and "telling" it to stop guessing places, the rest of the metas will probably not be messing up for the customers so much. The places produced in the titles are created by the supplier and should be enough and right.

We are both in this for the business and sales.

And this is something that have become much worse the last month and someone maybe just have fun to sabotage your AI for their own sake or business.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 25, 2019 Feb 25, 2019

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My AI system is the woman lying beside me in the bed. You probably think I’m Adobe. But I’m a user as you are and a contributor as you are.

This said, it could guess places, but obviously it should ask the user where it is as it can’t be in Sweden and in a different country...

It could however take the users hint at the title as amajor guess...

ABAMBO | Hard- and Software Engineer | Photographer

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 25, 2019 Feb 25, 2019

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Hi Hans Baath,

I looped Abambo in because he more experience than I am and many time offer excellent suggestions, not that he works for Adobe. Abambo and myself are volunteers, and contributors, Mat is a staff member, and is in a better position than either of us to address your issue. I suggest if you are not clear on what Mat said, if you believe he has misunderstood what you speak of, and if he did not cover your concerns, that you rephrase, and state clearly about what he did not address, or may have misunderstood, and direct your concerns to him.

Regards

JG

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 25, 2019 Feb 25, 2019

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Sorry I did not now about the voluntary work you are doing. Yes Mat is not understanding my question but I can not see how to go back and adress him with the following up we have had after his answer.

I think this is a serious Q that should be take care about. Wy use Adobe if 50% of hits are wrong. It means that ap 38 000 hits for Stockholm only represent 19 000 pics.

So could you forward to him so I can have dialog about the seriousness in fixing and cleaning the databases.

Br

Hans

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2019 Feb 26, 2019

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I think, a big improvement would be if simply pictures with keywords of multiple locations in different countries could be penalized in search, so that when you search for "Stockholm" pictures with Stockholm or Sweden as the only location-keywords get shown first. That's even pre-AI.

During keyword input of the keywords, the system should be more selective to accept different locations.

However, there are situations where you have different towns or quarters that are correct. Eg. Belgium in the USA... 🙂

ABAMBO | Hard- and Software Engineer | Photographer

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2019 Feb 26, 2019

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Hi Hans,

To address Mat directly you click on reply under his response on this thread. In any case MatHayward​ should be following the conversation since he has responded, hence all post following his response should go to his e-mail.

Regards

JG

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 26, 2019 Feb 26, 2019

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Thx Jacueling

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2019 Feb 26, 2019

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Hi,

I actually don't really understand your point either, but you seem to be referring to keywords - tagging the images when they are uploaded.

I personally think the auto keyword function works great - however YOU do need to review them and add or delete accordingly.

The problem I think, is not the AI, but in user input.

In case of file 250887406 - Wrocław, Breslau, Poland is the correct title - Wrocław, the Polish name, Breslau the German name, Poland, as it is in Poland. (There isn't an English version of Wrocław like there is for Warsaw - Warszawa or Cracow - Kraków.)

The user should have deleted the keywords - stockholm, sweden, france, prague, as these are irrelevant and added Poland, Wrocław, Breslau. This is not the fault of Adobe SenseI, as the user could type these words in manually. The Adobe Sensei works on keywords that users put in as keywords, so if the user feeds it wrong information, then 'wrong' information will be put out.

So, you can't blame the AI, only the users who use it. The AI 'guesses' the keywords by learning from the information that users have put in before. So really, accuracy depends on the people who use it! (Us contributors!)

Read about it here:

http://https://helpx.adobe.com/stock/contributor/help/titles-and-keyword.htmlAlso, have a read about the CSV.

(I'm also a volunteer.)

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2019 Feb 26, 2019

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ricky336​,

The problem are the users just wave through the different keywords, even when they are not logically possible. You can't be in Sweden and in Poland at the same time. For buildings this is spamming the search requests of the users with no relevant data.

There are situations where it may be possible or necessary to show the keywords for two countries but those situations are probably rare.
ABAMBO | Hard- and Software Engineer | Photographer

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 26, 2019 Feb 26, 2019

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When use "Select all", me running Swedish version so it has a Swedish label, you might think these can be used to giving same title and meta for all pics. It does not.... if you send "all pics" you will automatically have extra generated metas, typical different countries, towns etc out of control same goes for selecting several pics.
My experience working with development for HMI, for many many years, says this is not easy to understand.
If you want to change/delete the extra metas you have to wait till it is approved and in your catalogues or delete the pic and upload it again. Figure doing this for 50 pics?

This is a big problem and pointing to users do not help. If the AI not relate to hits and buys it will never learn to adjust the metas. Adobes business idea could not include something that makes the system not useful for both ends of the process.

sample.jpg

A search for photo and Stockholm the marked pics I can tell are not Stockholm, this goes on for rest of pages to.

Sorry about my English it is not as good as my Swedish.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2019 Feb 26, 2019

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'If you want to change/delete the extra metas you have to wait till it is approved and in your catalogues or delete the pic and upload it again. Figure doing this for 50 pics?'

That's why one should be very careful in what they write for keywords at the time of uploading. (And this can take time.)

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 26, 2019 Feb 26, 2019

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Thanks, ricky336

I appreciate your clear view on issues as I understand from other help you share to.
You are absolutely clear that if people act right and follow order this might not be a problem.


If this problem continuing accelerate as it done the last month, the entire database will not be useful to anybody in close time, at least regarding the area I cover. My pics are drowning in irrelevant tagged pics and I do not see how I should handle it since it is not my project. I thought that techs at Adobe were interested in trends from users. So I have misunderstood this forum.

BR

Hans

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2019 Feb 26, 2019

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Hi ricky

I believe there is a real issue here. It is possible that Hans can have a problem originating from Adobe, and we don't have similar. I've addressed a couple on this forum and I myself had my share of the experience.

First off, when you click on "select all" there is no auto tag available. You have to put in all the tags before submitting.

Single image tagging is what has the auto tagwords.

He said the single image tagging works fine.

The batch tagging when he "select all" is where the problem is. If he is getting auto-tags when he "select all", that is a malfunction on his pages that Adobe need to correct.

He said if he upload images and tag them one by one, there is not a problem.

Hans Baath please correct me if my understanding is incorrect.

Incidentally the @ mention does not work for @Hans Baath.

Regards

JG

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 26, 2019 Feb 26, 2019

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Thx Jacueling

I do see the "autotag choise" and if I "save" they will be created, the "select all" function is for me not clear what to use for. I can not create a batch with the same title and tags for all in the selection. I need to tag each pic and save before upload. I know how to work around this now so its not the big issue.

The big issue is the escalation of all "false" tags that are generated and create the "Stockholm - Istanbul"-syndrome. I cannot see any other explanation to suppliers do not see they are created as the above mentioned problem. And it should not be a problem if no "place" tags are generated by the "AI".


If the system logs what tags it adds to which pic it also can delete those that mess up.

Maybe there is a explanation for and how what to use the "select all" for that I missed.

I see that we users are the real Q-checkers of the system and are to be respected for that.

BR

Hans

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 27, 2019 Feb 27, 2019

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Hans wrote:

'I see that we users are the real Q-checkers of the system and are to be respected for that.'     

Thumbs up for this !!!!!!

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 27, 2019 Feb 27, 2019

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Hi again

If I select two pictures, 1 and 2, chose ”category” and select “no property right” then ad a title and Save. These will be kept.
I then put in my tags, app 20, no clicking for automatic tags, and save both pic again. Then checking that the tags still are the same, some remain but the second pic chosen at start has new tags generated including new country.  I then  redo and put in my tags for pic two and save again and now it looks ok. Then load up. Then I check what has been saved and the not asked for automatic tags shows up again i.e Russia or Italy and some other. To be fixed after release.

Hope you can follow this Swenglish description.

So I cannot rely of any steps about tags.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 27, 2019 Feb 27, 2019

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Hi Hans Baath

Thank you for the update. I've escalated the issue. I hope it will be resolved soon.

Regards

JG

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 16, 2019 Apr 16, 2019

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Hi JG

Still the same problem. Have you heard any..

Br /Hans/

sample_2019-04-16.jpg

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 16, 2019 Apr 16, 2019

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Hi Hons Baath

I will do some checks and get back to you as soon as possible

Regards

JG

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