Let us edit exposed things please, keep them unlocked

[kirkr5689]

I mean to share some parameter  you have  to expose it  and onse you did it  the parameter it's locked . You have to click on background , look through parameters, change the default settings ,  click , click, click etc

 It's so monstrously inconvenient and tiresome .  Especially if it's levels  or  transform nodde whree graphical representation is always better than just sliders.

Please let  it be editable,  or do something color codded  Blender does with drivers and driven, or let us have a widget sliders on top of  the main node pane .

I know I can make value inputs and  connect nodes by means of this   but it's so much extra pain in my a.. too.       Just  make exposed  parameters editable  please.

[_Olivier_L]

I am not sure to fully understand your concern but did your check the Preview tab for parameters? It enables to try out some values without having to change the default values. Be sure to disable In-Context Editing in Preferences though as presets and previews do not seem to behave properly in this mode.

[kirkr5689]

Yeah, I forgot about this tab  because  for my own nodes  it sometimes work, but other time doesn't. I never figure out why , just stopped to use it . 

  And  it's no different really. You still have to click on background.   In a heavy graph it  doesn't do it instantly  sometimes you have to click sevral times,   then scroll  to input parameters , open it  and  now, if I undestood you correctly ,  click  other tab .

Imo it's not much of a difference.    It's so annoying I started to do green connection dots/lines  for input/output  to my every custom node.  

Still why not just "clone"   or  just do shared value inputs  like in Blender geometry nodes.   But imo most obviouse fix would be just keeping   those exposed things unlocked  and synched.  Maybe with some color indication   like  drivers and driven values in Blender. 

Evry time I open Blender is like a breath of fresh air after  Substance .

[_Olivier_L]

Overall I think the parameter UX would need a complete redesign. Some things are inconvenient, others are completely broken. This is an area where the SD team would need to focus on I believe, this would also help to make Designer less of a mystery to some users.

[Luca Giarrizzo]

Hello,

Thank you for taking the time to share your feedback!

I understand editing values of exposed parameters may involve a lot of back and forth. To mitigate this, we added the Edit exposed graph input menu option in the exposed parameter's drop-down menu.

 

If you want to go into details about the pain points of working with exposed parameters, and would like to offer suggestions, I would very much welcome that!

Best regards.

[_Olivier_L]

Hi Luca, here are the main concerns I'd have about the param handing in Designer:

• Double-click on background to enter graph params: not easily discoverable. Additional options could be provided like righ-click on background, icon, menu item. Also the opening of graph params is slow especially when having many parameters (takes about 4s to open with no visual feedback on a graph I'm working on).
• Adding/duplicating params adds them at the end of the param list, we then need to move them one by one to their target location, very time consuming with many parameters especially since we have to scroll the param list multiple times.
• In param edit mode, parameter groups cannot be collapsed, this makes the parameter list flat and extremely long when we have lots of param, with many scrolling actions to reach or move parameters.
• Changing the type or id of a parameter which is being used into functions creates a ghost error which never goes away (even after updating the functions with the new type) in the Console unless with edit the SBS with a text editor and remove the ghost.
• Parameter preview doesn't seem to be working all the time, this may be due to Editing in Context mode, but basically I rarely use it. It seems to me it works better when Editing in context is disabled.
• Creating an embedded preset from an external preset is simply not working at all (I reported this separately).
• SBSAR embedded preset do not apply the values of boolean params (only for SBSAR, works fine with regular graphs).
• External presets are saved with 256x256 resolution and are reloaded the same way.
• No reset for groups of parameters (reported in other thread)

[kirkr5689]

Thanks, Luca.  I missed that right click menu point somehow.   It's a little bit easier but with lots of exposed things in a long list, as yoilif  mentioned, it's  still not very convenient.   I still have a delay when try to do it that way in a heavy graph .     Imo  it could be easier to just have exposed thing unlocked to edits   with some background color indication the parameter is exposed.  Like purple  color in Blender.   

[Luca Giarrizzo]

Hello @kirkr5689,

Indeed, displaying the properties of heavy graphs with lots of parameters takes a long time, because there are lots ot UI widgets to build each time. We have optimised this process a couple of years ago, but there are not lots of ways around this.

Two-way editing of exposed parameter values is something we had discussed before. I will raise your feedback.

Best regards.

[_Olivier_L]

Indeed, displaying the properties of heavy graphs with lots of parameters takes a long time, because there are lots ot UI widgets to build each time. We have optimised this process a couple of years ago, but there are not lots of ways around this.

Well did you implement wdiget caching + backend retreival caching? I am quite certain there are ways to improve this area!

[Luca Giarrizzo]

Hello again @_Olivier_L,

Thank you for all this detailed feedback you listed above. I wish to respond to each point, which may take some time.

Considering our offices shut down next week, I will reply in early January. I appreciate your patience!

Regarding caching, I can discuss with our engineers and may be able to share some details about the reasons of the current situation – no promises though.

Have a warm and relaxing weekend!

Best regards.