Locked

Do You Need to Know EVERYTHING?

Advocate ,
Dec 06, 2017 Dec 06, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Do you really need to know EVERYTHING about an Adobe app?

Media technology is ever-changing. There was a time when creative professionals were pigeon-holed as: Photographer, Designer, Illustrator, Writer, Director, Producer, Editor, etc.

Today, one job description may require one primary skillset, but also a series of subset skills. By way of example, many people are in charge of web content for their employer. When they started their jobs, a few years ago, they may have been quite good with working in Adobe Photoshop.

With proper training that employee became an Adobe Photoshop ACA (Adobe Certified Associate: http://www.adobe.com/training/certification.html). As that person grew into the job, some skills with Adobe Bridge and Adobe Camera Raw were natural progressions. Soon Adobe Lightroom became helpful. Next, their employer wanted them to touch-up some documents in Adobe Acrobat, to add PDFs to the website. Now that person’s supervisor needs a few new documents created as PDFs so, our web content creator needs to learn some Adobe InDesign.

In the last sentence, “learn some Adobe InDesign” is the important part. That employee just needs some basics. The work that person is going to do uses pre-designed templates. So, a trained designer he/she is not.

We have enjoyed teaching Adobe 100 Level courses to these people, in a public college setting. Most of those students are in the 29-59 age range and have very good skills with macOS or Windows 10. They also know their way around the Adobe CC UI (user interface). So, they’re ready to learn the basics of an app, quite quickly.

Do they want to take a deep dive into the features of those Adobe apps? Not at this point.

They’re not looking at the scenery from 50,000 feet up. But, that student isn’t timid, either. They’re ready to land and get out and inhale the local air. But, they’re not interested in buying some InDesign real estate, pouring a foundation, and building a permanent home, either.

But, isn’t that what the full Adobe Creative Cloud subscription is all about? That collection of desktop apps serve the multimedia professional quite well.

In short: a permanent InDesign residence? No.

A pigeon-holed job? Today, those things are for the birds. Multimedia professionals are capable of taking skills, reaching out, and constantly growing their own personal capabilities. They gain confidence in building their own workflows.

Views

4.8K

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines

correct answers 1 Correct Answer

Adobe Community Professional , Dec 06, 2017 Dec 06, 2017
Well, that's a credit to you both as gifted teachers who understand the material inside & out such that you can modify the course as the group's objectives change. There are probably less than 2% of undergrad college teachers who can do that because it's hard work.  In my experience, most instructors go by the book and deviate as little as possible.

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate
Dec 07, 2017 Dec 07, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

This could possibly be a good thread to include the new tutorial videos Adobe has just produced to help beginners get going with our software:

Photoshop Get Started

Illustrator Get Started

InDesign Get Started

Premiere Pro Get Started

After Effects Get Started

Lightroom Classic Get Started

Lightroom CC – COMING on 12/13

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Dec 07, 2017 Dec 07, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

TriciaLawrence  wrote

This could possibly be a good thread to include the new tutorial videos Adobe has just produced to help beginners get going with our software:

Janet & I will check them out.

That sound more like we should do individual threads on each one.

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Dec 09, 2017 Dec 09, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

TriciaLawrence  wrote

This could possibly be a good thread to include the new tutorial videos Adobe has just produced to help beginners get going with our software:

Photoshop Get Started

Game on, Tricia.

Janet posted the first one, here:

Photoshop Starter Tools

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Dec 27, 2017 Dec 27, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Brian+Stoppee  wrote

TriciaLawrence   wrote

This could possibly be a good thread to include the new tutorial videos Adobe has just produced to help beginners get going with our software:

Game on, Tricia.

Janet posted the first one, here:

Photoshop Starter Tools 

But we didn't stop there. Here"s

Clueless About Getting Started with Premiere Pro?

Was an Adobe CC Subscription Under Your Christmas Tree? Now What?

Need a Whole InDesign Getting Started Series? 

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Dec 27, 2017 Dec 27, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

TriciaLawrence  wrote

This could possibly be a good thread to include the new tutorial videos Adobe has just produced to help beginners get going with our software:

Photoshop Get Started

Illustrator Get Started

InDesign Get Started

Premiere Pro Get Started

After Effects Get Started

Lightroom Classic Get Started


Lightroom CC – COMING on 12/13

Any chance Adobe is working some similar "Get Started" series on:

  • Acrobat
  • Animate
  • Dreamweaver
  • Muse

That would seem like the next logical set.

These things are pretty cool.

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
LEGEND ,
Dec 27, 2017 Dec 27, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

There used to be a getting started tutorial for each version of Dreamweaver, but it was decided, (cannot remember who informed me) that because of the variety of ways one can use Dw a simple 'getting started' would not adequately cover what is possible beyond the very basics of setting up a site definition and providing a sample layout, which would be little better than telling someone to use a  starter page.

That is why I suggested ACP created tutorials in an ACP discussion (you did take part in that discussion), linked to directly from the Dw user forum discussions page, and the tutorials hosted by Adobe.

Muse and Animate probably have the same problem.

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Dec 27, 2017 Dec 27, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

pziecina  wrote

There used to be a getting started tutorial for each version of Dreamweaver, but it was decided, (cannot remember who informed me) that because of the variety of ways one can use Dw a simple 'getting started' would not adequately cover what is possible beyond the very basics of setting up a site definition and providing a sample layout, which would be little better than telling someone to use a  starter page.

With Continuing Education starter series, there are 8 bazillion reasons as to why something won't work (and 4 bazillion of them are probably valid). And, it's true that educational experiences for adults need plenty of wise shepherding, but after a while you have to get that stuff out of committee, out of focus groups, follow known protocols and put some prototypes into the field and see what happens.

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
LEGEND ,
Dec 27, 2017 Dec 27, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Every regular contributor to the Dreamweaver forum agrees that to use Dreamweaver correctly, the user MUST learn how to code html, css and javascript, (minimum). The idea that Dw can be used in a purely visual manner to create a modern website/application is not a viable proposition anymore, (plus Muse is the product aimed at that market).

Tutorials to teach users how to write code would be little more than a document telling users what each tag, property or api does. Creating such documents would not help the user, and a simple link to the W3C site would be more usefull, plus it would remain up-to-date.

Dw is nothing more than a text editor, with a few added features thrown in. It now unfortunatly no longer supports, (it has removed features, or ignored newer requirements) many of the features and workflows that web developers require, and anything beyond the basics cannot be created or used with Dw.

As you are a member of the Dw consumer advisory board, (CAB) and the Dw pre-release, what would you think should be included in Dw tutorials?

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Dec 27, 2017 Dec 27, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

pziecina  wrote

Every regular contributor to the Dreamweaver forum agrees that to use Dreamweaver correctly, the user MUST learn how to code html, css and javascript, (minimum).

We love the new Getting Started series. We know the presenter/authors. They've been teaching media technology long before George Eastman (as in Eastman Kodak!) was born.

They are VERY basic overviews.

Janet & I have created college curriculum for dozens of courses. And the Getting Started packages are by no mean college level stuff, but we're 101% certain that someone could do a cool Dreamweaver tour. It should show the Code. Live, and Design View modes, but no, teaching coding wouldn't fit with the rest of the series. That's too deep.

And, yes, being able to see Animate, Dreamweaver, and Muse, each with their own Getting Started would help people to figure out what makes the three apps unique from each other.

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Dec 27, 2017 Dec 27, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Brian+Stoppee  wrote

figure out what makes the three apps unique from each other.

UNCLE!

Throw in XD, too.

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
LEGEND ,
Dec 27, 2017 Dec 27, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Brian+Stoppee  wrote

Janet & I have created college curriculum for dozens of courses. And the Getting Started packages are by no mean college level stuff, but we're 101% certain that someone could do a cool Dreamweaver tour. It should show the Code. Live, and Design View modes, but no, teaching coding wouldn't fit with the rest of the series. That's too deep.

And, yes, being able to see Animate, Dreamweaver, and Muse, each with their own Getting Started would help people to figure out what makes the three apps unique from each other.

Sorry Brian, whilst I agree for the none web developer a getting started tour would be usefull, for someone who must actually use Dw though, it would be little better than useless.

Knowing where everything is in Dw, (unlike most other Adobe programs) would be of no use in telling the user what to do in Dw to develop a site or application, use any of the features, or help the user in customising Dw. What would be helpfull to someone new to Dw that is intending to develop sites or applications, would be to take idea of a getting started tour one step further.

By that I mean that it would help potential users to actually show them how to instal and customise code themes, install 3rd party extensions to add functionality, customise the layout, set-up Dw to use none supported file types or even how to use use custom versions of bootstrap, or bootstrap version 4.

As for Dw's design view, telling users the limitations, (which are many) should also be included.

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Dec 27, 2017 Dec 27, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

pziecina  wrote

Sorry Brian, whilst I agree for the none web developer a getting started tour would be usefull, for someone who must actually use Dw though, it would be little better than useless.

I'm pretty sure these Getting Started series packages are for people who know very little about them.

By way of example, if someone has been working in InDesign for many years and never did ANYTHING in web/mobile. They've been told, "Dreamweaver is WAY over your head. You need Muse." But that InDesign subscriber might think, "Maybe they're right, but I want to find out for myself." So, if that designer got those first four 3 or 4 minute videos for Muse and the same for Dreamweaver, they either say, "WHOA! Muse is just like InDesign. I'm in. Forget all that Dreamweaver code stuff." Or, the response might be, "Coding doesn't scare me. I want to do it all. Dreamweaver's for me."

That's the kind of overview this series offers people. They're not taking the place of lynda.com or "Classroom in a Book" or any college course.

They are guided tours and nice done tours, at that.

They fit a very specific newbie audience and we applaud that.

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
LEGEND ,
Dec 27, 2017 Dec 27, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Anyone even thinking about using Dw, MUST know how to code BEFORE using it. Without that knowledge it is not even worth thinking about using Dw.

There is a massive difference between building a web site using Muse, and building a site using Dw. With Muse a getting started tour may be helpful, as it uses a visual interface, Dw does not have an actual visual interface for layout, though Adobe did try and market Dw as having a visual interface for many years, (and many people still think it does). Yes Dw does have the insert panel and css designer, but if someone does not know code, using them will certainly produce invalid code.

Browser, (especially those in newer mobile devices) have already started to show a blank page to users if the code contains too many errors, and desktop browsers are now following, and it has always been the case that the end user will probably not see the page as intended if the browser goes into quirks mode.

Even moving between Muse and Animate would present a none coder with difficulties. Moving between Muse and Dw is for a none coder impossible. It is not even recommended to try and transfer the code used by Muse or Animate to Dreamweaver, as both produce what would in Dw be 'spaghetti' code. Animate packages the code it produces to an oem file, which is not editable in Dw. Muse whilst creating html files, requires an excessive amount of support files to work, and even though many have tried to edit Muse files in Dw, nothing beyond very basic changes are possible.

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Dec 27, 2017 Dec 27, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

pziecina  wrote

Anyone even thinking about using Dw, MUST know how to code BEFORE using it.

There's plenty of great, effective curriculum for Dreamweaver which allows the student to ramp up to coding.

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Dec 27, 2017 Dec 27, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Brian+Stoppee  wrote

There's plenty of great, effective curriculum for Dreamweaver which allows the student to ramp up to coding.

I have not taken the current Dreamweaver Adobe Certified Expert of Adobe Certified Associate exams.

Does anyone know if either of those exams require knowing how to code to be certified in those apps?

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Dec 27, 2017 Dec 27, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

HI Brian. Yes to both the ACA and ACE exams. The objectives of both exams make this clear:
.
ACA Objectives:
Adobe Education Exchange

.

ACE Objectives:

https://training.adobe.com/certification/exams/dreamweaver_cc_2015/_jcr_content/sampleExam

cheers and Happy Holidays to you and Janet!
Thomas

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Dec 27, 2017 Dec 27, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

MACnTUTOR  wrote

HI Brian. Yes to both the ACA and ACE exams. The objectives of both exams make this clear:
.
ACA Objectives:
Adobe Education Exchange

.

Thank you.

I see there are 23 ACA objectives.

Do I understand this correctly that just one or two of those objectives note coding?

2.3Demonstrate knowledge of Hypertext Markup Language (HTML) and the behavior of basic HTML tags.
2.4Demonstrate knowledge of Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) and the behavior of basic CSS tags.

But, does "Demonstrate knowledge of Hypertext Markup Language" mean that your HTML coding is being tested or is it more of a multiple choice question about HTML?

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Dec 27, 2017 Dec 27, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

This will be my 5th year working on both the ACA and ACE exams. But I will be doing Dreamweaver for the first time this year. Earlier this Fall I help set the new objectives for the new DW ACA exam. I am not sure if they have been published yet but, yes, coding is tested. In general, we write both multiple choice questions as well as problems (scenarios) that candidates must solve by demonstrating the proper use of the program.

Hope that helps. 🙂
Thomas

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Dec 27, 2017 Dec 27, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

MACnTUTOR  wrote

In general, we write both multiple choice questions as well as problems (scenarios) that candidates must solve by demonstrating the proper use of the program.

That is extremely helpful, thank you.

As will all things Pearson exam oriented, it's multiple choice oriented, but the exam candidate needs to be able to quickly review multiple code scenarios to determine the correct answer?

If so, that perfectly fits the "demonstration of knowledge" but of course, no one writes code for the exam, but if someone is in a workplace environment, to be certified in Dreamweaver, there's no way they can slide by with a perfect score without knowing something about code, correct?

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Dec 27, 2017 Dec 27, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Every year we rewrite each of these exams so that the questions reflect the current version of the software. First multiple experts then  beta testers like yourself and Janet verify our questions. Anyway, you know I can not publicly say what specific questions will be on the pool of roughly160 questions (40 of them are chosen at random when a candidate takes the exam). Last time I checked, beta testers got to see all 160 possible questions. These exams are NOT limited to multiple choice... as I mentioned we present scenarios that require candidates to perform the correct steps in what appears to be the actual software. Yes, as exam writers, we are responsible to write out every likely wrong solution as well as all the possible correct solutions (There is usually more than one correct answer). Finally, I gave that link so you could see the exam objectives made public by Adobe (I knew that the sample exam was out of date unless a candidate chose to be tested in an older version of the software.) I have the current objectives from Pearson (who got them from Adobe) but under NDA I can not share them. I am limited to sharing only what Adobe makes public.

hope any of that makes sense and was helpful,
Thomas

p.s. Please do not use this forum to bitch about the exams... I am so tired of the griping. Some of us have responded to the problem of the exams by working hard for months each year to make those exams much better, IMHO many of the derogatory comments I read are about exams from long before my time and are no longer pertinent to the current exams. 🙂

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Dec 27, 2017 Dec 27, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Brian, I do not know why you say that the Pearson exams are all multiple choice as the current ACA exams have the scenario questions I mentioned. The user sees an interface that looks like the software they are being tested on and is asked how to perform something. The candidates then perform the steps they think are correct. Or else, they have paid me to write questions they are not using. 🙂

On the other hand, the ACE exams have been completely multiple choice up until now.

As to whether they can get a perfect score without writing code, I suppose it depends on the exam. The 40 ACE questions are chosen from a pool of 160 questions each time a candidate tests. I suppose it is possible but I do not know the algorithm for choosing the questions. On the other hand, I would have a hard time believing anyone would pass these DW ACA and ACE exams without a sound code foundation. I believe the ACE DW exam description states that it requires a solid knowledge of HTML and CSS in order to pass.  🙂

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Dec 28, 2017 Dec 28, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

MACnTUTOR  wrote

Brian, I do not know why you say that the Pearson exams are all multiple choice as the current ACA exams have the scenario questions I mentioned. The user sees an interface that looks like the software they are being tested on and is asked how to perform something. The candidates then perform the steps they think are correct.

That's cool. Our only experience with Adobe testing is "multiple guess". We've reviewed some of the newer available exam creation options Pearson provides. We didn't know why Adobe didn't utilize that kind of think.

In the case of the ACA exam, for Dreamweaver, candidates don't have Dw open on their test computer, correct? It's some kind of simulation?

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Dec 28, 2017 Dec 28, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Yes, in the past it has been a simulation that looks identical to the actual software.

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Dec 28, 2017 Dec 28, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

MACnTUTOR  wrote

Yes, in the past it has been a simulation that looks identical to the actual software.

Quite a few years ago we were asked to test drive an exam effort which allowed candidates to perform actual work in Adobe apps. Each task was timed and clicking on certain regions of the app's window permitted the candidate to answer questions which popped up.

Janet diligently took a few of the exams and was told she was too slow because the ancient Mac they gave her kept crashing (it's tough to be time efficient if your test computer needs to reboot every two minutes).

My test Mac was newer. It didn't crash as much but I had to run Disk Utilities and clean it up and somehow tested as an efficient user while running maintenance on the company's system.

That company went out of business, a few months later.

My point is that Pearson's testing methods have to work all over the planet. We were involved in some of how Pearson evolved a few test sites. Some colleges were not too thrilled with the demands Pearson made on them, but the changes made sense.

So, people will say, "The Adobe certification testing is not relative to real world skills." and I get that, but to roll out a testing methodology which has we work in many, many places in fit into how testing works for Apple, Autodesk, Cisco, Microsoft, etc. takes some doing.

Pearson has some new tools for exam creators to use and hopefully the Adobe exams will reflect that.

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Explorer ,
Dec 28, 2017 Dec 28, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Brian+Stoppee  wrote

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Brian+Stoppee   wrote

TriciaLawrence    wrote

This could possibly be a good thread to include the new tutorial videos Adobe has just produced to help beginners get going with our software:

Game on, Tricia.

Janet posted the first one, here:

Photoshop Starter Tools  

But we didn't stop there. Here"s

Clueless About Getting Started with Premiere Pro?

Was an Adobe CC Subscription Under Your Christmas Tree? Now What? 

Need a Whole InDesign Getting Started Series?  

And here's one I just did on Lightroom Classic:

New to Lightroom Classic? Do This First!

Likes

translate

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines