Trump -man of the moment or the greatest conman in history?

[Trevor.Dennis]

Terri, seeing as you have raised the subject, how is it even remotely viable that after  so many American celebrities and politicians have been sacked or forced to resign over claims of  sexual harassment, and yet Trump, who bragged about his own blatant contemptible behavior with women, is still the President of the United States?  I can see that the GOP wants to hang on to power at any cost, but at what point does their ever decreasing credibility make their position no longer tenable? 

[Terri_Stevens]

very true and it looks as if it will be a very bloody Christmas in Palestine thanks to Trump. Moving an embassy sounds unimportant but represents an end of a dream for the Palestinians as they now know categorical there will never be a two state solution as long as the Israelis are backed up by the Military might of the United States. The Jewish American billionaire Sheldon Abelson gave 25 million dollars to the Trump campaign and Donald is now rewarding his investment by signing over the occupied territories of Jerusalem and the West Bank of the Jordan-an amazing business coup for land that must be worth billions.

[jane-e]

I am just now reading all this, and I must say that our president is despicable. Many of us won't even call him by name but only by his number: 45. (He is the 45th president.)

He did not win the popular vote. Clinton won by almost 3 million votes. But we have this archaic electoral college system that actually elects our president, and 45 won that by a narrow margin.

Since then he has not only been destroying our country and the world, he has been changing the government in a way that it will be hard to put it back.

So what am I wishing and hoping for?

Wait for it.

I don't want to wait until Korea starts a nuclear war with us. I want Europe to declare war on us now and save us from this tyrant. We don't seem to be able to do it ourselves. I hope that a declaration of war ends up being a wake-up call to the Republican Congress and that the war does not have to be fought, but we have to get rid of 45, Pence, and a couple of others. And we can't wait until the next election.

He is as bad or worse than Hitler.

[jane-e]

Or Wonder Woman. Maybe she can save us.

[JR Boulay]

Or Wonder Woman. Maybe she can save us.

He certainly tried to grab her by the pussy.

[Terri_Stevens]

jane-e  wrote

I am just now reading all this, and I must say that our president is despicable. Many of us won't even call him by name but only by his number: 45. (He is the 45th president.)

He did not win the popular vote. Clinton won by almost 3 million votes. But we have this archaic electoral college system that actually elects our president, and 45 won that by a narrow margin.

Since then he has not only been destroying our country and the world, he has been changing the government in a way that it will be hard to put it back.

So what am I wishing and hoping for?

Wait for it.

I don't want to wait until Korea starts a nuclear war with us. I want Europe to declare war on us now and save us from this tyrant. We don't seem to be able to do it ourselves. I hope that a declaration of war ends up being a wake-up call to the Republican Congress and that the war does not have to be fought, but we have to get rid of 45, Pence, and a couple of others. And we can't wait until the next election.

He is as bad or worse than Hitler.

Hi Jane,

some very strong and candidly held opinions from a true American lady. I think the one saving grace about having '45' in office (maybe 45 will be the number on his back when Robert Mueller puts him behind bars for twenty years, better still an apt 45 years) is it will force the silent majority in the United States to finally abandon partisan politics and see that politics matter and politicians are largely in it for themselves when left to their own devices. It should not matter if you support someone with a 'Donkey' or 'Elephant' emblem on their jacket because once in office a good president should, and usually does, try to heal political rifts and serve all the people not just a white base hungry for red meat. Much of what Trump has done can be reversed by a stroke of a pen as it has been done with presidential orders, but that is not true of the Middle East, which is his most serious mistake so far, or climate change or even the tax reforms passed last week. Europe cannot do much to help except shuffle it's feet and say 'what a horrible little man'  and where does he get his hair cut-Stevie Wonders on 41st Street in case you need to know

I'm English and see many parallels between our current government here and the Trump administration. I'd go further than that and say we might have made Trump possible as in the BREXIT campaign for the first time ever we allowed right wing politicians to directly tell lies to the people and get away with it -a model picked up later by the Trump campaign. It's based on the simple premise that they can tell as many lies as they want to get elected, but once in office can feel secure that the 'suckers' who voted for them can't do a blind thing about it-that's what happens when men with no honour come to power.

I do think you are right though that Europe will distance itself from America, but it will happen slowly. You have probably not heard of Jeremy Corbyn over there yet. He leads the Labour Party here and is like Bernie Sanders on steroids. Corbyn's party has an eight point lead in the opinion polls over Theresa May's Conservatives and if elected the relationship between the UK and the USA would change as we will move towards being militarily neutral and stop trying to be the world's policeman. If that happens Britain stops being of any use to America as we will not be buying submarines and seventy million dollar jet fighters from Lockheed-Martin and probably eventually will ask the US to withdraw their airbases as it just makes us a target. Ideally we will transition towards being a country far more like Sweden and Norway and mind our own business in world affairs. We won't have our former power and influence and because taxes will be high there won't be so many billionaires, but who cares Scandinavia offers a much better blue print for living standards for the majority and not the few.

[Nancy OShea]

jane-e  wrote

He did not win the popular vote. Clinton won by almost 3 million votes. But we have this archaic electoral college system that actually elects our president, and 45 won that by a narrow margin.

A narrow margin because Russia could only rig the election in a few key districts.

Ask yourself this.  How many people do you know voted for Trump?  I sure as heck didn't and nobody I know did either.    So who did?  It's ironic that Trump's mantra near the end of  campaigning was "the election is rigged. "  Well, he certainly got that right.

[Ussnorway]

I know a lot of people who voted Trump but most of them just wanted HER out... its a two party system

[KJerryK]

I recently re-read a Rex Stout mystery, which I do from time to time. It was a Bantam paperback reissue of "Where There's a Will" printed 25 years ago and containing an interesting introduction by Dean R Koontz. Here is a short excerpt.

"Twenty years ago, when I was struggling to find my own voice as a writer, I was reading five novels a week in addition to putting in full days on a typewriter. (We didn't have the great blessing of computers and word processing software back then. But we didn't have freeway shootouts or Donald Trump either, so it wasn't altogether a less appealing era.)" copyright 1992 Dean R Koontz.

[rodneyb56060189]

The title implies 'either / or '. I'm not sure that's fair to our potential for rational thought. If my memory is correct it seems to me that many political election cycles have passed in the U.S. (presidential and midterm, federal and state ) where candidates declare (rhetorically) 'the system is broken'. I'm not sure but I think many citizens are swayed by that point of view during political advertising and media coverage, as well as possibly some personal experiences that make them feel they are not being represented and respected properly. I also have a feeling that the U.S. major parties, being a republic of many states with varied economies and interests, have been finding it difficult to maintain a coherent focus, from the ground up, in the national committees. (My spelling is atrocious, please forgive me)

You may have heard of various caucuses in both parties. To recount the last batch of candidates for the primaries of last presidential election is unnecessary. All of them pronounced the system is broken. Maybe a little less broken for Hillary who wanted to continue some of the then current president's agenda, fixing only those things that needed improvement. That sentiment, brought about in large part by the candidates themselves, contributed much to the final outcome. Everyone knows about the emails and the meeting of Bill and justice dept. rep on tarmac, the basket of deplorable people and so on. And Comey's messing around with some challenged individual's, Anthony Weiner, laptop copies of insecure emails, etc. Senseless to go through all that again.

But in the end, is it really an either or situation ? Barzun wrote a book years ago called, 'The Culture We Deserve'. Could it be that we got exactly what we wanted ?  Part showman (like all politicians you might think, though that is not true really ). Part con man (like all politicians you might think, though that is not true either). My influence on events and reality of interactions with my community and so on, is governed by my own actions, etc. Not much is new under the sun, and history is a fascinating subject, so it is sometimes wise to try and keep things in perspective. As for people being critical of the U.S. (implication that all citizens of the U.S. are homogenously actively pursuing the ire of the rest of the world) it is not the first time. If I come to your country and you hate me when you find out I am an "American" (misnomer since there are north and south American countries galore), I will try to avoid you and not cause you grief by my presence. Since I don't travel anymore, that is very unlikely.

I type fast. this was long...whew...

[gener7]

Since the Popular vote losing to the Electoral vote is often brought up, a Wiki check reveals that it isn't the first time, but the fourth time in our nation's history this has happened:

United States presidential elections in which the winner lost the popular vote - Wikipedia

There was this joke going around when George Bush was elected:

A woman is hit by a car while crossing the street. The ambulance arrives and the EMTs start asking questions to ascertain head trauma:

How many fingers am I holding up?  "T-three."

What is 5 + 2?  "Seven."

Do you know who the President is? "Yes, unfortunately."

[Trevor.Dennis]

gener7  wrote

Since the Popular vote losing to the Electoral vote is often brought up, a Wiki check reveals that it isn't the first time, but the fourth time in our nation's history this has happened:

United States presidential elections in which the winner lost the popular vote - Wikipedia

There was this joke going around when George Bush was elected:

A woman is hit by a car while crossing the street. The ambulance arrives and the EMTs start asking questions to ascertain head trauma:

How many fingers am I holding up?  "T-three."

What is 5 + 2?  "Seven."

Do you know who the President is? "Yes, unfortunately."

My main memory from when GW became elected was the Florida recounts.  I was still in the UK then, and our media painted it as decidedly dodgy, but looking back at it now, I feel they are all as bad as each other when it comes down to it, and Al Gore would have pulled a few strokes if he could have got away with it and taken the Presidency. 

Trump is in another league though of course, and whether you wear red or blue at election time, it puts the GOP in a very bad position that they are prepared to go to any lengths, and condone any behaviour no matter how offensive, or make millions of people so angry they kill each other, or mess up the planet we live on, just to stay in power.

[jane-e]

KJerryK  wrote

... Rex Stout mystery ... "Where There's a Will"

...But we didn't have freeway shootouts or Donald Trump either, so it wasn't altogether a less appealing era.)" copyright 1992 Dean R Koontz.

We were talking about Victorian times, and I asked my 10-year-old granddaughter if she would rather live in Victorian times or now. I was pretty sure she would say now because of her love for all things electronic.

"Victorian times!" she exclaimed.

"Why?"

"Because Trump wasn't president then!"

from the mouths of babes...

[gener7]

jane-e  wrote

We were talking about Victorian times, and I asked my 10-year-old granddaughter if she would rather live in Victorian times or now. I was pretty sure she would say now because of her love for all things electronic.

"Victorian times!" she exclaimed.

"Why?"

"Because Trump wasn't president then!"

from the mouths of babes...

Perhaps he wasn't needed. Healthcare, social reforms, food, drug, and safety regulations were pretty much non-existent. Only one gender could vote. This book dissolved the TV and Movies depiction of that era as one big musical.

We did make it through those times (1860s-1900s).

The Good Old Days: They Were Terrible!: Otto Bettmann: 9780394709413: Amazon.com: Books

[rodneyb56060189]

I get phone calls sometimes from people who want to hire me. After all, sometimes my life required that I earn a living somehow.

Over the years I recall several.

Call #1: Hello? Are you available next week to work on a McDonald's commercial ?

A: No, I don't think the food they serve is good for people.

Call #2: Hello, Are you available to work on Sex and the City next month ?

A: No, I don't think it's a good idea that the fantasy of 'women just want to get laid just like men' is a good social message.

Call # 3: Hello, are you available to work on the Sopranos next week ?

A: No, I don't think it's responsible to romanticize gangsters and pimps and thieves and extortionists.

Call #4: Hello, can you help us edit the Chew next week ?

A: No. I won't work on a show that has star chefs that engage in sexual harassment.

Call #5: Hello, can you work on a commercial for the Democratic party candidate ?

A: No. I am upset that the committee chairwoman was cut out of the process last year and I don't trust your integrity.

Call #6: Hello, can you come downtown tomorrow and work on editing at our place on Hudson St. concerning saving starving polar bears ?

A: No, that means I have to ride the subway, built, and maintained by blue collar uneducated individuals who are probably white supremacists and voted for Trump.

Call #7: Hello, do you really work for a living, because it seems to me that you've turned down every job offered during the past few months because you are angry about living with things that don't agree with your daily mood. Is there any way to convince you to join the human race with employment and help those less fortunate than yourself to live a full and integrated and perfect life ?

A: No, I don't work for a living. I moderate things. I employ eugenics when necessary, and although that leads to fascism and dictatorships it always appears to be a golden city on the hill in the beginning. It's only later it turns into bad things. Right now I just have to make other people think just like me, and look down on them because that's what they deserve, not being in my 'club'. After all, the better people must really show the poor and uneducated how to live properly, doesn't one ?

[Nancy OShea]

OMG I hope this is a joke .

[rodneyb56060189]

hehe

: )

[gener7]

I always thought that if you are looking down on everyone, you might as well jump.

(Disclaimer: Generic joke, not aimed at anyone in particular.)

[Ussnorway]

I have done work for politics, porn and defence but I did turn down a computer game for moral reasons... ime ethics are different when you are self employed to working for some boss

[jane-e]

Ussnorway  wrote

I know a lot of people who voted Trump

45 is racist, homophobic, sexist, Islamophobic, and xenophobic.

Many of my friends have said they can no longer be friends with anyone who continues to support this moron a year into his term. They can forgive the initial vote, but not the continued support as this man does his best to destroy our country.

Do they people you know have regrets?

[Ussnorway]

jane-e  wrote

Do they people you know have regrets?

no... as I said they voted him to get rid of her

Trump is a clown yes but he is also the leader of the US for 3-4 years and that is the way the system is set up... a two party system has no good options

who can say what would have changed if she won... imo you would have more limited war (thats been her goto policy) and Trump got out of it by playing the Nuke cards. People beleaved him (and I do mean everyone) crazy enough to actualy do it so having a pluck a duck as leader worked in that one case.

[rodneyb56060189]

The Civil War in the U.S. was a horrible battle .. not a war against someone else, but a war against each other. History proves that Lincoln prevailed as U.S. president. He is memorialized. In short, the hatred that festered afterward, on both sides, grew exponentially when he was assassinated. The south could not have representatives in Congress, the north sent all branches of govt. to the south to manage it (carpetbaggers, judges, businessmen, bankers (new money) and so on. To this day the south recalls the hurt they suffered and the outrageous horror of humanity taking advantage of their weakness due to loss of war. I have no clue where you people posting from here in this outpouring of anger, angst, and self centered mean spirit toward the office of the presidency ( no matter who is serving at the moment) but you might take a breath and realize there are many examples of hatred and serious challenges to opinions that are sometimes extremely different among all people ( even in a single family ). Get a grip, people, because you are ranting now and it does nobody any good to keep harping on your own tribal ( grouping together of like minds) importance. Groups sometimes form solely for the purpose to think themselves 'special' and 'better' and more cultured and intelligent than the OTHERS. You are doing that now. Big time.

Please stop it.  Get back to basics and start this thread again with less hatred and angst.

Please.

I will be moderated before I can post here, and I hope you (most of you are the moderators) will accept my point of view that my particular vote is private (last I heard, a vote is not a matter of waving a flag, but is a private matter ? ). If I voted for Trump, the way this thread is going, do you think I would get any Christian love from any of you ?  Please tone this back a little bit, because it serves no useful purpose to re-live some of the ugly history we have already suffered as human beings through world wars, civil wars and racial wars, etc.

Happy holidays everyone !  It's a beautiful time to love one another isn't it ? And use adobe products to express ourselves in vibrant an wonderful ways that give our children a chance to join us in art and technology, to be a family of mankind. Thank you. Rod

[Terri_Stevens]

rodneyb56060189  wrote

The Civil War in the U.S. was a horrible battle .. not a war against someone else, but a war against each other. History proves that Lincoln prevailed as U.S. president. He is memorialized. In short, the hatred that festered afterward, on both sides, grew exponentially when he was assassinated. The south could not have representatives in Congress, the north sent all branches of govt. to the south to manage it (carpetbaggers, judges, businessmen, bankers (new money) and so on. To this day the south recalls the hurt they suffered and the outrageous horror of humanity taking advantage of their weakness due to loss of war. I have no clue where you people posting from here in this outpouring of anger, angst, and self centered mean spirit toward the office of the presidency ( no matter who is serving at the moment) but you might take a breath and realize there are many examples of hatred and serious challenges to opinions that are sometimes extremely different among all people ( even in a single family ). Get a grip, people, because you are ranting now and it does nobody any good to keep harping on your own tribal ( grouping together of like minds) importance. Groups sometimes form solely for the purpose to think themselves 'special' and 'better' and more cultured and intelligent than the OTHERS. You are doing that now. Big time.

Please stop it.  Get back to basics and start this thread again with less hatred and angst.

Please.

I will be moderated before I can post here, and I hope you (most of you are the moderators) will accept my point of view that my particular vote is private (last I heard, a vote is not a matter of waving a flag, but is a private matter ? ). If I voted for Trump, the way this thread is going, do you think I would get any Christian love from any of you ?  Please tone this back a little bit, because it serves no useful purpose to re-live some of the ugly history we have already suffered as human beings through world wars, civil wars and racial wars, etc.

Happy holidays everyone !  It's a beautiful time to love one another isn't it ? And use adobe products to express ourselves in vibrant an wonderful ways that give our children a chance to join us in art and technology, to be a family of mankind. Thank you. Rod

Hi Rod,

I very much liked your contribution here. It is well reasoned and asks us to turn the other cheek to the abuses of power Trump is engaged in-it's a very admirable Christian trait, something I fully understand as a practicing Catholic. Unfortunately that's exactly what most Germans did in the 1930s, pretended it wasn't happening and it got 60 million people killed in World War 2. It's up to clear thinking honourable people, like you, to speak out against this monster and if his supporters want to defend him we will not censor their input and I for one would welcome their input. You sound a bright man, just think of what Trump said after the Charlottesville killings-didn't he say there was wrong on both side-a bunch of good old white supremacists boys who had things get out of control after a few beers. If they had been brown or black they would have been Muslim Fundamentalist Terrorists.

[Trevor.Dennis]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote

jane-e   wrote

He did not win the popular vote. Clinton won by almost 3 million votes. But we have this archaic electoral college system that actually elects our president, and 45 won that by a narrow margin.

A narrow margin because Russia could only rig the election in a few key districts.

Ask yourself this.  How many people do you know voted for Trump?  I sure as heck didn't and nobody I know did either.    So who did?  It's ironic that Trump's mantra near the end of  campaigning was "the election is rigged. "  Well, he certainly got that right.

I've read a bit on the USA gerrymandering, and as wrong as it is, it is still very clever by the sound of it.  From other things I have read, the Russians  were quite clever in how they targeted their 'bots' on social media sites choosing to influence where it would make a difference. Actually, I take back some of what I said about the Russians being 'canny' as they apparently made a poor job of covering their footprints, with the hire of UK servers easily traced to companies known to be fronts for Russian Intelligencehttp://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42056555.

Another thing about the Trump political machine that is so wrong, is that when he makes ludicrous claims like how he actually won both the Electoral Collage _and_ the popular vote, but was denied the latter because of voter fraud, and then sets up a commission to prove it and that commission has trouble backing up his claim, they try their very hardest to hide the results. (sorry about that long laborious sentence)  Not only are the public denied access to results that would make Trump look like the twat he is, even members of the Commission are kept in the dark.  Maine Secretary of State, Matthew Dunlap, has resorted to suing the Commission that he is a member of, for information gathered by that Commission!

Meanwhile weather event record after weather event record is broken year on year.  Hundred year floods are a yearly occurrence, the worst fires on record destroy huge areas of forest, hundreds of homes, and people die.  Hurricanes, tornadoes, cyclones rip through populated areas causing unprecedented damage, but Trump _still_ maintains that climate change is a hoax and ramps up the use of coal.  He has apparently gone quiet about the global warming myth since taking office, but that didn't stop putting Scott Pruit in charge of the EPA so he could deconstruct it and hand the best of America to big business.  It makes want to cry and I am not an American.

He claims to have a higher IQ than Rex Tillerson, and I am sure neither of them is stupid — Tillerson called Trump a moron, so he is definitely an astute judge of character — so what drives Trump to make decisions that the rest of the world find staggeringly wrong?  He obviously doesn't care a lick that his public backing of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel will lead to massive conflict.  He is determined to deprive the poorest of American's of health care, while at the same time pushing tax breaks for the most wealthy of Americans.  Why can't the blue collar people who apparently voted for him see how wrong that is?  Not only is he doing his best to scare North Korea into a possible first strike, he is now setting Iran back on the path to increasing their nuclear capability.  But no slight can go unchallenged — and if it leads to WWIII, then so be it, as long as Trump's delusions of self importance are maintained.

[jane-e]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote

Ask yourself this.  How many people do you know voted for Trump?  I sure as heck didn't and nobody I know did either.    So who did?  It's ironic that Trump's mantra near the end of  campaigning was "the election is rigged. "  Well, he certainly got that right.

I don't know anyone who voted for Trump either. But many of my friends, including me, are paying more attention to politics than ever with this monster in our midst.

He is a liar, bully, and predator, and is doing everything he can to destroy America. I haven't liked all of our presidents, but we have never had anyone this bizarre.

[pziecina]

Just thought i would throw my two pence worth in.

As an outsider, (don't live in the USA) does anyone really believe politicians anyway?

Trump from what i have seen reported would never have gotten the power he has if previous governments, (not just presidents) had not ignored the problems of those who had seen their communities and jobs destroyed by political decissions made for 'the world stage'.

Here in the U/K, i was not surprised when mainly those north of the London area, (outside of the major cities) or in rural communities voted to leave the EU, (brexit). As those areas declined dramatically due to policies being centered in the south of England, or Scotlands cities, with a political dam the rest attitude.

My point is that sooner or later everyone who is ignored by the main political systems, no matter where they live in the world, gives up on the politics and starts to follow an idea or person no matter how stupid or idiotic the idea/person is. Trump is just a manifestation of the way things work now, 100 years ago those who voted or followed such people or ideas, would have staged a revolution, now people revolt by saying that the system is corrupt and stupid, so we may as well have a stupid leader of the system.

And lets be honest, there is no one more self centered, and only for themself, than a politician.