character for subbullets

[_Rasat_Rasat_]

Just wondering if there is a standard to use for sub-bullets in professionally designed documents (such as brochures).

Hollow bullets are standard for non-pro documents, such as reports, but I have never seen them used in pro pieces designed for public.

Usually I try to rework the text to avoid sub-bullets altogether, or do not put anything in front of them, but have a case now where it looks unavoidable.

Anyone have any insight into this?

[Neil_Keller]

Rasat,

What are "sub-bullets"? I just know of "bullets" which are an integral part of standard fonts. Are you referring to outline bullets?

From the standpoint of typography, I use bullets (whether standard round or as squares) only for highlighting or defining a level of text points. Within that, I tend to use em-dashes rather than another form of bullet, which would tend to make the appearance of the text spotty.

Neil

[_Dominic_Hurley_]

I don't know of any rules for this, and I wouldn't follow them if I didn't agree with them anyway. Just do what fits with your publication and your (or your client's) aesthetic sense. If I have to use bullets within bullets, I just use a different (and/or smaller) type of bullet for the second level, and I don't like mixing numbered items and with bulleted items.

[D__McCahill]

> I don't like mixing numbered items and with bulleted items.

My rule is that you use numbers when things have to happen in that order, and bullets when it doesn't matter. So steps in changing a transmission would be numbered, but a list of parts in one of the steps could be bulleted.

I prefer the en bullet, although many professional designers prefer smaller, as small as a centered period. (Never, ever use an em bullet, which makes it look like someone attacked your page with a .45 magnum).

[Neil_Keller]

Don,<br /><br />You must've changed a lot of trannies over the years! <g><br /><br />I agree that (as a designer), I prefer smaller centered bullets (sometimes as small as 3 or 4 pt with 10-12 pt text). En bullets sound fine, although -- depending upon specific use -- they can appear large, as well. I'd use large bullets ONLY for special effect, and generally toned down so they don't disrupt the page.<br /><br />Neil

[Thomas Phinney]

I've always found the standard bullet in most typefaces a bit heavy for use with regular weight text. (I made the bullet in Hypatia Sans a bit lighter for that reason.) But while the centered dot is usually a bit too light, it might make a decent "sub-bullet."

Cheers,

T

[D__McCahill]

> You must've changed a lot of trannies over the years!

Are you kidding. I decided when I was about 10 that I would find some kind of work that didn't involve getting my hands dirty. First reporting, then typesetting, finally teaching. I don't even change the oil in my car myself.

[Neil_Keller]

So...you never got your hands dirty as a reporter? <lol><br /><br />Neil

[_Rasat_Rasat_]

So what are outline bullets exactly? I could not find out what they were when googling it. Thanks for your responses which I appreciate -- there appears to be no definitive answer, other than the suggestions such as to use m or n dashes which I guess I will do.

[Neil_Keller]

Rasat,

AFAIK, outline bullets are "hollow" appearing as outlined circles only, like the letter "o".

Neil