Default Type Sizes

Community Beginner ,
Nov 21, 2016 Nov 21, 2016

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This is more of an item for the Adobe "suggestion box."

Now that there are many large format applications for design work, such as 4k, and even 8k film and UHD sizes for titling and image-making, shouldn't there be some larger defaults in the type size drop-down menu across all the programs/apps? 72pt looks like 14/20pt relative to the document size, and our formats are growing larger all the time. It seems it might be time to expand the horizon of typography defaults. I can go all the way up to 2000pt with a standard font like Myriad Pro with the word "Hello" and not even be approaching the boarders of a 4k UHD canvas. I don't know how the current increments were determined, but I do know they've been around forever, and the ceiling needs to go way up.

I realize the numbers are there, and I can type whatever I want into the field, but if they're there for convenience and blocking out rough sizes, additional options would be nice. Maybe those options should be relative to the canvas size. Maybe they shouldn't be. The whole thing probably warrants further discussion, but it's certainly a small change that would go a long way.

Just a thought.

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LEGEND ,
Nov 21, 2016 Nov 21, 2016

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You may need to list the apps you're using and how they use them. From my perspective, nothing should change. InDesign is used to design for print mainly and print-like uses, and 12 point or whatever is still very much the right size; if it's too small the whole page is too small and you need to zoom in. 

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 22, 2016 Nov 22, 2016

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Illustrator, Photoshop, After Effects, Premiere etc: I'm sure it could apply to several of the other apps as well, but these are the ones I use most frequently, and in that order (Besides Audition, but that's not relevant here). 

Most of Adobe CC offers canvas sizes for Film & Video. What brought this about was designing for *film titles*, not print. Designing for the screen, which is only getting loaded with higher and higher resolution, is leaving the max type size of 72pt in the dust. This spans many types of digital illustration and video projects: film titling, illustrated inserts (for film), creating a graphic at resolution for display on a 5k screen, creating artwork for 8k etc. etc.. I'm sure it could very well effect web design given the growing resolution of computer monitors, but I spend less time in that area, so I won't speak for it.

Go open Illustrator and pop open an 8k FUHD (7680px x 4320px) document (under the Film & Video tab/document presets), and tell me if you think the 6pt - 72pt range is still a relevant or useful type sizing tool in that environment.  I understand that 72pt is plenty big for paper, but that's not really what this is about.

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LEGEND ,
Nov 22, 2016 Nov 22, 2016

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Well, a lot of people still use paper, so I'd still use that old fashioned range. I certainly agree you want a different default for film work. Probably nothing will satisfy everyone, and overall a fixed value is probably better than a moving target, I think. Did you know most apps let you change the default font size, often by setting preferences with no document open?

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 23, 2016 Nov 23, 2016

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I should start by clarifying, my usage of the word "Defaults" could be substituted for the terminology of "type dropdown presets". I have a document open in Illustrator and a document in Photoshop. Both are 4k UHD documents for the screen.

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My Type Size dropdown menu in Photoshop has the normal increments:

PS: 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 16, 18, 24, 30, 36, 48, 60, 72pt

My Type Size dropdown menu in Illustrator has slightly different increments:

AI: .25, .5, .75, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20, 40, 60, 80, 100pt

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It makes sense that Illustrator would have more finite values on the lower end of the spectrum for quick selection on intricate design work that likely utilizes typography on a fairly regular basis for both print and screen. However, as you can see- it also uses a slightly different set of values on the higher end and, additionally: goes all the way to 100pt.

Now, I don't know what the decision-making process is for how those numbers are decided on, whether they come from ancient forearm measurements, programming logic/limitations/algorithms, or some other thought process. I also don't know the logic behind having different type presets in different apps. But as a designer, who sees value in the tool, I'm simply asking for a programatic change that would help anyone working on large format documents work a little faster.

I'm asking for a higher cap. All the existing increments can stay. And if not a higher cap, at least the ability to add your own presets to the type sizes in the dropdown menu. I realize there is one called "Other" that you can set once. But if you're just trying to block in a quick layout, and you want to try out different sizes and see what looks good- some additional presets, or the ability to add presets would greatly speed up the workflow in the beginning stages of design.

In response to your suggestion:

In both of these programs, I was unable to find any settings for creating a new default type size as you suggested. Unless, of course, you are referring to the "Other" field in the type dropdown.

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 23, 2016 Nov 23, 2016

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Here's some logic: 72pt (the highest print preset value) divided by 612pt (the width of a standard Letter size document: 612 x 792pt) is roughly .12 (rounding up).

That means a type character at 72pt is proportionally 12% of the document width.

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What that should mean, proportionally, for a 4K UHD document (3840 x 2160pt):

.12 x 3840 = 460.8

Maximum Type Preset Value should equal 460 pt.

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What that should mean, proportionally, for a 8K UHD document (7680 x 4320pt):

.12 x 7680 = 921.6

Maximum Type Preset Value should equal 922 pt.

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How increments get determined between that Max Type Preset Value and the preset floor should be determined by the needs of user experience and not making the dropdown too cumbersome. 

What that could look like:

PS: 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 16, 18, 24, 30, 36, 48, 60, 72, 144, 288, 460, 690, 922pt

AI: .25, .5, .75, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20, 40, 60, 80, 100, 200, 300, 400, 800, 1200pt

It's a fairly simple solution, and only adds an additional 5 values to the dropdown in both cases.

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