difference between open type flavors

[_sarah_gasca_]

What is the difference between true type flavor and post script flavor? I noticed that ttf is often more expensive the otf. Does this mean ttf is more compatible with more applications? Are they both still compatabile with both macs and pcs?

[Neil_Keller]

sarah,
>What is the difference between true type flavor and post script flavor?

It's a difference in the way the fonts are encoded.

If you'd like to know more, see: http://www.scribd.com/doc/202365/TrueType-PostScript-Type-1-and-OpenType-Whats-the-Difference Page 7 describes OpenType.
>Does this mean ttf is more compatible with more applications?

No.
>Are they both still compatabile with both macs and pcs?

Yes.

Neil

[MichaelKazlow]

I'll disagree with Neil here. There are some really poorly coded windows
programs that do not support postscript or postscript flavored open type
fonts. Some by very big companies. However, these are most often
specialty programs.

Mike

[Neil_Keller]

Mike,

Actually, no disagreement. Poorly coded programs will always be an issue. But for apps commonly used by folks here, there should be no difference in usability. The Adobe type library itself is largely OTF format.

Neil

[MichaelKazlow]

Many math and statistics programs which probably aren't used by most
people here fall in to this category. I also believe that FileMaker Pro
which might be used by people here also falls into this category. Which
is just an example of Apple being difficult.

Mike

[Thomas Phinney]

AutoCAD is also in that category. And the WordArt feature in Microsoft Word.

I'm mostly surprised by the initial statement that "ttf is often more expensive than otf." That certainly has not been my observation, at all.

Cheers,

T

[Dov Isaacs]

Additional OTF criminals include recent versions of Microsoft Visio which do not support either Type 1 fonts or OpenType CFF (i.e., OpenType with Type 1 outlines) fonts. Ironically, a few releases back, Visio was not a problem with regards to these font types.

- Dov

[_Herb_V_B_]

Dov wrote:
"a few releases back, Visio was not a problem with regards to these
font types"

You mean while it was still essentially the product as created by the
Visio Corporation, before it was 'integrated' into MS Office?

- Herb

[Dov Isaacs]

I think Office 2000 and Office 97 had versions of Visio that worked with Type 1 and OpenType CFF.

- Dov

[_Herb_V_B_]

Re: - visio adn Type 1 fonts

There was no Visio with Office 97.

But for Visio 2000, that's exactly what I was trying to say. The
versions that worked with T1 were those that hadn't yet been
significantly altered by MS from their Visio Corp roots.

MS acquired The Visio Corporation in 2000, and for all practical
purposes just re-branded Visio 2000, which can be found in both Visio
Corporation and Microsoft editions.

MS did some rework to a version that was already in Visio's pipeline
and released it in April 2001 as Visio 2002. T1 fonts worked in this
release. This version did have some other transition problems
resulting from the beginnings of integration into the MS product line.

Visio 2003 was the first version fully integrated into the MS Office
family, and I believe it was the first where T1 support was broken.
And no, I don't think that the Office integration was directly
related! Visio 2003 somehow also lost support for .eps import and export.

- Herb

[Dov Isaacs]

Actually, given how absolutely pathetic Visio's EPS import and export were, good riddance. However, with regards to Type 1 and OpenType CFF fonts, all that restricts Visio from using them is the setting of an option bit in its font enumeration call.

- Dov

[Unit_Seven]

One other issue was a lot of Adobe Apps (I believe from memory Illy and InDesign both suffered from this) on XP64 (unsure about Vista 64) would not see standard PS fonts activated by the OS. Not sure if this also applied to PS flavour Opentype fonts by I guess it may of.

There were ways around it by placing these fonts in the Adobe fonts folder but then they obviously can't be seen by other apps in the OS and I'd hate to think what may happen if they were in both folders.

This may have been fixed but if you are on a 64 bit version of windows and are looking at PS fonts with Adobe Apps I recommend checking out the status.

Cheers,

Sam.

[Dov Isaacs]

I don't quite know what you are talking about. Adobe applications do indeed see any and all Type 1, TrueType, and OpenType fonts properly installed by Windows, whether or not they are physically placed in C:\Windows\fonts or installed via links to elsewhere.

And Windows does not have the concept of activating or deactivating a font. A font is either fully installed or not.

What is true is that if you install a font with Windows while an Adobe application is running, that application will not likely see that font immediately, but only after restarting the application.

By the way, I've seen no difference between how Adobe applications run with regards to fonts between 32-bit Windows XP or Vista versus 64-bit Vista - I have at least one system running each of these!

- Dov

[_Herb_V_B_]

Dov Isaacs wrote:

"Windows does not have the concept of activating or deactivating a
font. A font is either fully installed or not."

Windows may not have the concept, but it DOES have the function. If
you display a font with the built-in FontView or just about any other
font viewer or manager it becomes available to any other appliction,
just as if installed. Once the viewer is closed, the font is no longer
available.

As you said, some applications, such as MS Word, will recognize the
newly available fonts immediately, while others may need to be restarted.

Note that if you have ATM installed, this will NOT work for Type 1 or
PS-flavor Opentype fonts, since ATM uses its own display mechanism and
doesn't do the 'temporary install' that Fontview does. Incidentally,
if ATM is installed, it won't let you view a non-installed version of
a font that IS installed.

- Herb

[Dov Isaacs]

Windows does allow have the ability to allow an individual application to install a font for its own use and then uninstall it - such installed fonts automatically become uninstalled when the program installing them temporarily terminates. Microsoft Office does this when it temporarily installs TrueType fonts embedded in Office documents for the duration of that document's edit session. That is not activation or deactivation.

- Dov

[Thomas Phinney]

I haven't had any problems on Vista x64 over the past four weeks I've been running it.

T

[BobLevine]

I've seen this issue with type 1 fonts on Vista x64 and InDesign. I've
had to replace those fonts with either truetype of opentype.

Bitstream Charter (ships with CorelDRAW) comes to mind as one that was a
problem. Swapped it with the TrueType version and voila.

Bob

[Neil_Keller]

Bob,<br />>Bitstream Charter (ships with CorelDRAW)<br /><br />IIRC, that Type 1 font family was included as a freebie with QuarkXPress 3.x, way back in the middle ages.<br /><br />Neil <g>

[Unit_Seven]

Hi Dov,

This was the type one fonts on 64 bit OS which I was referring too http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=332312

It was something I found in my short experience on XP64 and one of the numerous minor issues that made be decide to roll back to XP32. Activated was probably the wrong term. I wasn't meaning to differentiate between that or installed.

As I said not sure what the status is now or why the issue came around. I'm def not going to point finger at either Adobe or Microsoft but is something a potential user should be aware of.

Sorry for the late reply have been snowed under and hardly on here since I posted the info.

[Dov Isaacs]

There was a problem in earlier versions of the Creative Site with Type 1 fonts, but not OpenType or TrueType fonts, installed in the \Windows\Fonts directory being seen by Creative Suite applications. This problem does not occur with CS4 in combination with Vista 64-bit.

- Dov