FAQ: Multiple master fonts on OS X

Enthusiast ,
Feb 26, 2002 Feb 26, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

(This notice has been updated repeatedly to discuss: OS X 10.2, Adobe app bugs with 10.2 support, "cocoa" applications; Adobe phasing out MM font sales; Adobe discontinuing tech support for MM fonts. Last update: 23 Sep 2005.)

With versions 10.0 and 10.1, Mac OS X's native support for Type 1 and OpenType initially failed to include support for multiple master Type 1 fonts. This problem is fixed in OS X version 10.2 and later for applications using the "carbon" APIs, but not for applications using "cocoa" APIs. The two most common "cocoa" applications are TextEdit and Keynote.

Note that applications running in "Classic" mode are unaffected. They still need ATM for supporting Type 1 fonts, including multiple master fonts.

There is a workaround for some Adobe applications, such as InDesign 2, Illustrator 10 and Photoshop 7. You can rely on the native font imaging support in these applications, which is largely independent of the OS. Just put the fonts in the the Fonts folder in the application's folder, or the Application Support/Adobe/Fonts folder.

Additionally, the above-mentioned Adobe applications may have problems accessing all multiple master instances, when accessing the MM fonts which are installed at the system level, even in Mac OS X 10.2 and later. In some cases, this may be worked around by installing the fonts in the application's own fonts folder or the Application Support folder as described above.

PHASING OUT MULTIPLE MASTER FONTS

Adobe stopped making new MM and Type 1 fonts in 1999, and there is no equivalent to MM in the newer OpenType format. From late 2002 to mid 2003, Adobe phased out sales of multiple master fonts. As of this writing, they can only be bought from Adobe as part of Font Folio 9, which is still available for people who need compatibility with older fonts. The current version of Font Folio is Font Folio OpenType Edition, which shipped in August 2003.

At the end of 2004, Adobe stopped offering tech support for MM fonts, excepting for people with Font folio 9.

Views

17.3K

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
New Here ,
Apr 11, 2002 Apr 11, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Not to split hairs, but it also affects cocca applications. For example TextEdit can not use the Mutiple Master fonts either.

Any more on when Apple will release an OSX version that supports MM?

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Explorer ,
Apr 12, 2002 Apr 12, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Robin,

You can rest assured that both Adobe and Apple will post that info when the "fix" is done.

Neil

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Enthusiast ,
Apr 13, 2002 Apr 13, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I have edited the original message so it says "native" as well.

Apple prefers that we not comment on features of future OS versions and updates. We are in quite regular contact on these sorts of issues, but I'm afraid I can't say anything in advance.

T

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Explorer ,
May 19, 2002 May 19, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Vic,

Please post this as a new topic. Your concern has nothing to do with the multiple masters FAQ. Thanks.

Neil

Forum Host

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
New Here ,
Jul 09, 2002 Jul 09, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Thomas,
I tried your MM font workaround in Illustrator 10, with no success. I have loaded Extensis Suitcase10, to handle my OSX and OS9 fonts, and turned it off, but still no success.

Is it possible to regenerate the MM fonts in another format to make OSX read them?

I have been reading the OSX Missing Manual, and there is a description of how OSX sequentially reads fonts and thus elinimates font conflicts...is this interferring with your workaround within Illustrator10?
A

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
New Here ,
Jul 26, 2002 Jul 26, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I'm working in OS X.1.5 with Photoshop 7, Illustrator 10 and InDesign 2. I have my MM fonts in my Library/Application Support/Adobe/Fonts folder and I have access (finally) to my MM typefaces.

None of the new versions of the applications give me control to create my own instances of the fonts. Older versions of Illustrator gave one this control, and later, ATM Deluxe allowed it. Since I have had to revert back to using Suitecase for OS X (at Adobe's suggestion) for my font management, there no longer appears to be a way to use the technology on which the concept of Multiple Master type is based.

Am I missing something? Is there a way for to adjust particularly the weight of a Multiple Master font?

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
New Here ,
Jul 26, 2002 Jul 26, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

i am using illustrator 10 and i am trying to add a new font so that i can use it in illustrator 10. i put the font in the folders listed and still don't see the font in illustrator. what can i do. can i restart in mac os 9 and still use illustrator 10? i would appreciate your help so much. thanks.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
New Here ,
Jul 26, 2002 Jul 26, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Kathey,

Don't know about Photoshop or InDesign, but in Illustrator 10 you still have control to create your own instances of multiple master fonts.

Go to Window>Type>MM Design to open the MM Design palette. This gives you the same controls found in earlier versions of Illustrator.

Hope this helps,

Lance

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
New Here ,
Jul 26, 2002 Jul 26, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Shannon,

There are at least two places you can put Multiple Master fonts to have them recognized by Illustrator 10.

You can put them in the Library: Application Support: Adobe: Fonts folder, or you can go to the Applications: Adobe Illustrator 10 folder and create a folder yourself and name it "Fonts" and put the fonts in there.

Either location should work. They do for me. If the fonts you put there really aren't showing up in Illustrator's font menu, you might want to try the following:

1. Quit Illustrator.

2. Do a search for Adobefnt05.lst. Delete any of these files that you find (you should find at least a few).

3. Restart Illustrator (this will rebuild the Adobefnt05.lst files).

And in answer to your final question, Yes, you can restart in OS 9 and still use Illustrator 10.

Hope this helps,

Lance

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
New Here ,
Jul 26, 2002 Jul 26, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

In response to the question about the fix for MM fonts to be found in a future version of Mac OS X--I just spoke with a colleague of mine at Apple and he said that OS X 10.2 (aka Jaguar) will fix the problem with MM typefaces. Jaguar should hit store shelves August 24. If you recently bought a Mac, you can get an upgrade for $19.95 or should be able to go to any Apple Reseller and get a "burned copy" for free. The $19.95 is for S&H. If you need to do a flat-out upgrade, it's $129.

I hope this helps.

- Jaron

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
New Here ,
Aug 15, 2002 Aug 15, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

This question isn't about OS X, but I thought you all might have an idea about how to fix this problem: I have projects at two different printers right now who are both having problems with outputting the Myriad Multiple Master fonts that I used. One printer rep tells me that he hears that Multiple Master fonts are often problematic for many printers. Anyone know what might be a solution for this?

(I have used only the 'default' versions of the font that originally came with it, i.e., I haven't created any new iterations. And I send all of the original Myriad MM files to the printer with the project.)

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
LEGEND ,
Aug 15, 2002 Aug 15, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I can't speak about RIPS per se but HP printers and others non-Adobe PS
interpreters are known to have problems with some MM fonts.

...Mike

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Explorer ,
Aug 15, 2002 Aug 15, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

It all depends upon the RIP software, Jerie. Some RIPs work with MM fonts just fine, some don't. there's nothign iherently wrong with MM fonts.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
New Here ,
Aug 16, 2002 Aug 16, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Thanks, Mike and Scott. I HAVE used MM fonts on lots of other projects that worked out just fine. Do you know, Scott, if I can tell my printers specifically which RIP software to get? I'm using Myriad on a couple of whole promotional campaigns, and I'd hate to have to change the fonts at this late stage.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Explorer ,
Aug 17, 2002 Aug 17, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

> Do you know, Scott, if I can tell my printers specifically which RIP software to get?

A RIP is often created for a specific imagesetter or printer - you
can't tell them what to get. RIPs can also cost anywhere up to
$50,000. However, if your printer keeps their RIP software up to date
they should have few problems.

For some reason many printers refuse to consider updating their RIP
software to fix bugs. If this is the case you have to decide whether
the choice of printer or font is more important to you.

Aandi Inston

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Explorer ,
Aug 16, 2002 Aug 16, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Jerie,

Your printers aren't going to change RIP software for you. You're better off finding a pritner that already supports MM fonts.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Explorer ,
Aug 20, 2002 Aug 20, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

There are printers who will unjustly INSIST that you change from multiple master fonts, even though there is nothing wrong with them -- it's often a RIP problem -- older, incompatible software; poorly written RIP software code; improperly configured RIPs; clueless RIP IT support, etc. Unless you have the very earliest incarnation (say, 1992 or earlier) of your multiple master fonts, find someone else to output your work.

And there is never a problem with multiple master fonts outputting to any of the HP PostScript or PostScript clone laser printers I've worked with (4050N, 5000N, 4MV).

However, if you are using ATM Deluxe, use it to verify that your multiple master fonts are not damaged. And always replace damaged copies directly from the foundry originals.

Neil

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Enthusiast ,
Aug 26, 2002 Aug 26, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Note that I've updated the initial message at the start of this thread: OS X 10.2 supports multiple master fonts.

T

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
New Here ,
Sep 03, 2002 Sep 03, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I am still having problems with MacOS X 10.2, Freehand 10, and Multiple Master fonts. In Freehand the MM fonts now display, but they don't look right. Kerning is wrong, type that is on an angle looks jagged. When these files are printed, the pages either don't print at all or everything defaults to one font weight. For example, Myriad 700/600 prints as Myriad Regular. The same thing happened when working with Ocean Sans.

Anybody getting similar results?

Jeff

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
New Here ,
Sep 05, 2002 Sep 05, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

With the advent of OS 10.2 the situation seems to have got even more complicated. MM fonts put into any of the library/fonts folders (or activated by Suitcase) seem to be recognised by applications but only in some of the MM instances - except that is for Word which (mirabile dictu) sees all the variations.

As has been pointed out, Illustrator 10 can generate MM instances and InDesign handles them impeccably if the fonts are put in the right place.

Seems to me a pretty good old muddle!

John Mallinson

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
LEGEND ,
Sep 05, 2002 Sep 05, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

John,
When you mention Microsoft Word (or any office product), you should expect a
muddle. Microsoft never follows Apple's rules and frequently must be special
cases to work with other products. Heck MS doesn't play by the rules in
Windows either, which is why many companies are annoyed by Microsoft using
non-public APIs to give their products a leg up.

...Mike

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Enthusiast ,
Sep 07, 2002 Sep 07, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

But in this case, MS apps are the ones that are working fine.

T

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
New Here ,
Nov 05, 2002 Nov 05, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

i installed ATM 4.6 for my mac OS X and i just can't make it work. when i open it and i click on "Create MM instances" it tells me to install some multiple master fonts in my system. i have tried everything and nothing seems to work. If somebody could me out here, i would really appreciate it. i'm new in all the mac world!
thanx
maria

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Explorer ,
Nov 06, 2002 Nov 06, 2002

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

>installed ATM 4.6 for my mac OS X and i just can't make it work.

ATM is NOT for Mac OS X.

Aandi Inston

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines