From Apple and Extensis: Font management under Mac OS X

[Neil_Keller]

Apple Computer and Extensis have free PDF documents aimed at answering many questions about using and managing fonts under Mac OS X.

Click on this link for your copy of Apple's: Using and Managing Fonts in Mac OS X -- A Guide for Creative Professionals.

This technology overview covers:

Best Practices for Font Management
Managing fonts manually
Using a font manager
Organizing fonts for a font manager
Useful font utilities
Preparing Your System
Removing nonessential fonts
Appendix A: Fonts of Mac OS X
Appendix B: Font Support in Mac OS X
Appendix C: Font Locations in Mac OS X
Appendix D: Mac OS X and Unicode

===================

Click on this link for your copy of Extensis's: Best Practices for Managing Fonts in Mac OS X

From Extensis: "This document contains detailed recommendations and instructions that can help you work efficiently with fonts in OS X, configure your system to minimize font problems, enhance your workflow."

Feel free to post feedback/augmentation/corrections specific to these two documents here.

However, for all other ATM/Type issues, please search the forum or start a new topic -- do not daisy-chain them here.

Thanks.

Neil
Forum Host
[text amended May 23, 2005]

[Thomas Phinney]

Can you give me the URL for that PDF? I can see why you got the wrong idea about InDesign CS's features in this area; it looks to me like the person who wrote it was confused about exactly what the feature does. But maybe I'm the confused one. I will go inquire of some InDesign engineers to make sure I understand this correctly. Maybe the feature is better than I think!

Here's my understanding of what InDesign CS does with font conflicts involving different formats:

You can now have a font family that has fonts from different formats. With InDesign 2.0, if you had Glurbish Regular and Bold in TrueType, with large character sets, and then four Glurbish fonts in Type 1 (Regular, Italic, Bold and Bold Italic), with smaller character sets, then all you would see in the font menu would be the TT Regular and Bold. With InDesign CS, you would now see the TrueType versions of Regular and Bold, and the Type 1 versions of Italic and Bold Italic. But you still can't see two different versions of the same font format. At least, that's how I understand it.

T

[JustBob]

You can do a Search at Adobe's web site for this doc and find it (a 16 page pdf):

indesign_nfhs.pdf

Your explanation might explain my disappointment. If I remember correctly, Illustrator and ID handled fonts differently. It seems as if most of the time ID gets it right; but, there are disappointments at other times...

[Thomas Phinney]

Actually, on further review I do see the PDF is saying the key thing, and you quoted it yourself: "InDesign CS now lists all active fonts that share a font name but have different PostScript® names." (emphasis added).

This allows the kind of mixed families I mentioned earlier. But you still can't see Apple dfonts at the same time as their Type 1 counterparts, since they have the same PostScript names.

Regards,

T

[JustBob]

A job forced me to do some more experimenting. Here's my problem: Adobe Illustrator Adobe Photoshop handle the fonts the way I would like the programs to; InDesign does not.

I have activated my versions of Gill and Times and have left Apple's in their default locations. Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop show both fonts in the font menu; a TrueType and a Type 1 version. Adobe InDesign only shows my fonts and ignores Apple's. This is a step in the right direction; the last version of InDesign showed Apple's fonts and ignored mine.

I am posting this with an almost a futile prayer that Adobe will see this and correct the error in the .x version which I hope will come out soon. I seem to want to say never mind the argument given by Thomas above. Illustrator and Photoshop seemed to have gotten it right; InDesign seems to have been left behind. (All of this while Adobe has said that they released all design programs at the same time so there would be consistency. )

[Thomas Phinney]

I wasn't defending what InDesign does, just pointing out that the documentation does explain it correctly.

Please use the feature request form at: http://www.adobe.com/support/feature.html if you want to formally register your desires for this feature.

Personally, I agree that it would be great to improve this feature in a future version of InDesign.

Regards,

T

[JustBob]

I will add this request. Thank you! But, you must admit it is inconsistent that Illustrator and Photoshop shows all of the fonts, while InDesign eliminates Apple's, at least some of the time. weird. I think ID should be built as Illustrator, as far as font recognotion is concerned.

[JustBob]

I have an idea why InDesign might treat its fonts differently than Illustrator. Adobe may have done this thinking the output would be more correct from the service bureau. The service bureau or printer could put the fonts supplied by the client in the Adobe fonts folder and InDesign sees those fonts and ignores any other duplicate fonts. I am at a loss, however, as to why Adobe should treat Illustrator in Photoshop differently, though. Just musing.

[_M_Farhaad_Osman_]

Hi, I have purchase otf Font Folio and it is a nightmare without type reunion on Panther. I am also running Suitcase X1. Does anybody now of a product out there like type reunion for Panther?

[_drako_]

Hola:

Tengo un problema, en la versiones anteriores de mac OS se tenía un suitcase para manejar las fuentes y el ATM para que se pudieran manejar correctamente las tipografias tanto en previsualizacion como en impresion. Ahora que tengo sistema MAC OS 10.3 no trae el suitcase sino un font manager o algo similar, pero no hay una versión de ATM para MAC 10.3 y algunos de mis trabajos salen mal impresos, por lo que no se que hacer, al momento de revisarlos en pantalla están bien pero al imprimir salen mal. Tengo que escribir el texto en otro programa y pasarlo como imagen e insertarlo en Quark 6 para que no me modifique el texto. Help!!!

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

Hola Drako:

Vamos por partes. El problema puede ser tu impresora, las fuentes que utilizas, las cuales puedes estar dañadas, y, desde luego, esa abominación de programa que es QuarkXPress.

Para fines de representar las fuentes en la pantalla y enviarlas a tu impresora, el sistema OS X ya no requiere ATM. El sistema viene ya con esa función integrada. Tú ya tienes la última version, 10.3.3, Pantera.

(Por cierto tu máquina se llama Mac, no MAC con mayúsculas, pues en la informática MAC tiene otro significado, concretamente el de "Modular Access Control".)

Desafortunadamente Adobe ha descontinuado por completo el desarrollo de ATM, tanto para el OS X como para las versiones anteriores del sistema; pero, como ya señalé, no lo necesitas.

Si nos detallas cuáles fuentes te causan problemas, cuál es tu impresora (marca y modelo exactos), modelo de Mac, memoria instalada, etc., quizá podamos darnos una idea.

Por lo que dices, es obvio que el problema lo causa QXP. Yo lo usé como unos 16 años, y ya lo abandoné porque InDesign es muy superior.

El ATM Light todavía es útil en el entorno Classic, pero ni es necesario ni funciona en el 10.x.

Saludos.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

Por cierto, para activar y desactivar fuentes, así como para ordenarlas, puedes usar la última version de Suitcase, que creo es la 11 o algo así, o bien un programa mucho mejor que se llama Font Agent Pro.

El Font Book que viene con la pantera (OS X.3.3) te sirve si no tienes demasiadas fuentes, pero si tienes centenares o miles de ellas es indispensable comprar Font Agent Pro o algo similar.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

Neil,

If you want to move this last three posts to the Spanish forum, just leave a link here so Drako can find his way over there.

[_drako_]

Ramon

Te agradezco tu respuesta, por el momento te puedo decir que el problema no creo que sea la impresora, ya que manejo un RIP de la BESTCOLOR que manda a imprimir a un plotter epson 7000, en el cual salieron mal las tipografias, ademas de que mande a imprimir en una maquina llamada Prossetter, la cual imprime láminas para impresion en esta maquina salieron igual mal las letras, por lo que no me inclinaria tanto por ese lado, ahora bien la gente de preprensa me comenta que el problema pueda ser que las letras que nos mandan los clientes no vengan completas, ya ves que en Postcript se manejan como dos versiones la de previsualizacion y la de impresion y dicen que por ahi esta el problema lo cual corregia anteriormente el ATM. Me comentaste del Font Agent Pro, este programa soluciona o hace funciones similares al ATM?

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

>Font Agent Pro, este programa soluciona o hace funciones similares al ATM?

Por lo que toca a las funciones de activar o desactivar las diferentes «fuentes» o tipografías, sí.

En cuanto a la previsualizacion, ya quedamos en que no es necesaria en OS X.

> en Postcript se manejan como dos versiones la de previsualizacion y la de impresion

Las tipografías PS Tipo 1 efectivamente constan de dos ficheros, el de la impresión (Outline Printer Font) y el de pantalla (bitmap font). Si tienes instalado el primero (Outline Printer Font) el sistema OS X se encarga de hacer la previsualización y la impresión a partir de ahí; la otra parte (screen bitmap font) sólo sirve para que el sistema «vea» o localize la tipografía. Si solamente tienes esta segunda parte (screen bitmap font) etonces sí vas a obtener resultados fatales en la impresión.

Por cierto, aun en el sistema 9 y anteriores era absolutamente indispensable tener los dos ficheros juntos («(Outline Printer Font» y «Screen Bitmap Font») para que ATM pudiera cumplir su función. No queda de otra. Esto es lo que el OS X hace automáticamente.

También es posible que tengas la nueva modalidad de tipografías, Open Type Fonts (.otf). Si éste es tu caso, entonces dile adiós a QuarkXPress. QuarkXPress no entiende nada de este nuevo formato.

Te aconsejo abandonar a Quark de cualquier manera. Adobe InDesign es infinitamente superior, y que conste que yo no trabajo para Adobe ni tengo nigún otro nexo comercial con ellos salvo el de cliente y consumidor.

[_drako_]

Ramon gracias por contestar, pero el personal de preprensa tiene algunas dudas no sé si sería mucha molestia el pedirte tu mail para que asi tengas una comunicacion mas directa con ellos. Si puedes ponerte en contacto conmigo te dejo mi mail, sistemas@regiosur.com.mx te agradezco de antemano.

[Neil_Keller]

Ramón,

Thanks for pitching in. I get the jist of drako's post and your responses from what I remember of high school Spanish. It is actually easier to move an entire post, rather than single posts, but I will move it to the Spanish U2U so more folks can benefit from it. I'll place a link here with an appropriate header. ¿El título...Como se dice, en español? ¡Muchas gracias!

Neil

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

Neil,

¡Muy bien! Sí, título o encabezado es la expresión correcta.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

Drako,

Si le picas con el ratón a mi nombre, ahí encontrarás la información necesaria para «ensamblar» mi dirección electrónica, la cual procuro no escribir de corrido para evitar que la detecten los cosechadores automáticos de direcciones electrónicas que luego le llenan a uno el buzón de spam.

El correo electrónico generalmente no lo contesto a horas hábiles sino hasta que vuelvo a casa del trabajo.

[Neil_Keller]

Hola Drako,

Por favor, para el español, vea: "Font management under Mac OS X (en español)"

¡Gracias!

Neil

[_Colleen_Post_]

I am currently reading the document Using and Managing Fonts on OSX. I understand this message board is a forum for issues about that document, but I see there have been no postings here since 4/20/04. I have a lot of questions, but would like to know if this message board is still active.

[JustBob]

It's active, now, I believe...

[_Colleen_Post_]

Great! After trying to learn about font management in school, on the job, reading books and help sites, and consulting others for about 5 years now, I am as confused as ever. So I am going back to the beginning, pretend like I'm in Kindergarten, okay?
I've upgraded to OSX 10.3 and have a Mac G4. I mainly use Quark, Illustrator, & Photoshop. I have about ten dozen fonts. I keep them only in the fonts folder of my main Library folder on the hard drive.
won't these fonts be available in all my programs without my doing anything else?
what further purpose does it serve to put the fonts into Font Book?

Thanks! Colleen

[JustBob]

The fonts should be available to all of your Mac OS X native programs. (Not available for Classic, OS 9 apps; but, who uses those, anyway?)

Font Book isn't really a place to put fonts. It is really just a way to see what fonts you have and to turn them On and Off. If you turn a font Off using Font Book, the font will remain where it is; but, the System (and your programs) won't see them.

It doesn't sound as if you have so many fonts as to create a problem...if the font menu in your apps appears too long for you, you might consider turning a font or two Off. You might wish to check out the preference setting in Font Book before using it.

Adobe programs and Quark do not take advantage of Apple's Font Sets, so disabling a Font Set in Font Book will have no effect, unless you have chosen to Disable the fonts within the Set in stead of just the Set in Font Book's Prewferences. Disabling a font with Font Book will delete teh font from Quark and Adobe's font menu.

I hope I have not confused you more with this...

[_Colleen_Post_]

Okay, that sounds good, I want to keep it as simple as possible. Now:

I get page layout files from outside my company that I work on or revise, and they come with their own fonts.
When I used to use Ext. Suitcase (which I always had problems with) this is how I thought it worked;
I would have a brochure folder on my desktop with the fonts folder in it.
I would open Suitcase, make a folder for the brochure and add the fonts to it, thinking Suitcase would link with the font from the brochure folder and make it available in my menu, without me actually installing the font on my computer. Every time I opened Suitcase to work on that project, it would activate the fonts kept in the brochure folder. This way I was not "stealing" the font by installing it on my computer, just borrowing it to use in the piece it came with. Have I understood this correctly?

I appears that to organize fonts in Font Book, they have to be installed on my computer. I can't do what I did with Suitcase, right? But I could install the borrowed fonts on my computer, put them in a collection in Font Book (which I understand does not provide a separate location where the fonts are organized, it's just a window into the Library/Fonts folder where things are arranged differently, right?) and just turn them on and off when I needed them.

[_Aandi_Inston_]

> This way I was not "stealing" the font by installing it on my computer, just borrowing it to use in the piece it came with. Have I understood this correctly?

I see this hasn't been addressed. This could be approached as an
ethical or a legal question. Let's try legal, though I'm no lawyer.

Each font has a potentially different license, but so far as I know,
Adobe's font license (for Adobe fonts) doesn't allow "borrowing" or
"lending" fonts. You may be shortening the period for which you are
breaking the font license, but not eliminating it. Adobe would require
that you own a font, no matter how short the task for which you want
to use it.

At least that's how I understand it.

Aandi Inston