There were Adobe Postscipt Type 1 versions for ItalSymb and ItalicSymbolBold back around 1990. Does anyone know why these Symbol font variations weren't released in the Adobe Font Folio 11 library?

New Here ,
Sep 14, 2015 Sep 14, 2015

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

There were Adobe Postscript Type 1 versions for ItalSymb and ItalicSymbolBold back around 1990. Does anyone know why these Symbol font variations weren't released in the Adobe Font Folio 11 library?

Views

438

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines

correct answers 1 Correct answer

Sep 15, 2015 Sep 15, 2015

Don,

Primary information in terms of what you can and can't do with Adobe fonts can be obtained from the EULA, pointers to which are at Font licensing information, end user licensing agreements | Adobe. Specifically, the EULA for Font Folio 11 can be found at http://wwwimages.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/type/pdfs/eulas/eula-20seat-us-english-07.11.11.pdf (for the 20 seat version, although other than the number of copies licensed is the only difference between this EULA and the other F

...

Likes

Translate

Translate
Explorer ,
Sep 15, 2015 Sep 15, 2015

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

If you are referring to the "Symbol" font which is part of the core font set of original PostScript then this font came in one style only, that being "Regular" (Windows PS-Type-1 file names: sy______.pfb sy______.pfm or TrueType-version: symbol.ttf).

By applying italic or bold style linking in your application you may have accidentally created a false italic or bold style (font fauxing). True italic, bold or bold italic versions of the "Symbol" font were not released.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
New Here ,
Sep 15, 2015 Sep 15, 2015

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Yes I thought that too but from the screengrab below it looks like there were other variations back in 1990 (as per the copyright date).

Adobe symbol variations.png

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Sep 15, 2015 Sep 15, 2015

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Confirming. No such fonts were ever released by Adobe. Perhaps this was someone's personal modifications of the Adobe Symbol font?

The non-Adobe source of these typefaces is signaled by the font family names “ital” for the first and “italic” for the second of these, something Adobe never would have done.

The Adobe copyright probably came from the original Adobe Symbol font and the person doing the modifications simply left them as is.

             - Dov

- Dov Isaacs, former Adobe Principal Scientist (April 30, 1990 - May 30, 2021)

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
New Here ,
Sep 15, 2015 Sep 15, 2015

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Dov, so the symbol variations would not be legal and would not be covered under the Adobe Font Folio 11 library EULA and therefore should not be used when producing a commercial product? Is that a correct assumption?

My business purchased a number of Adobe Font Folio 11 licenses back in 2011 when internal designers were used for producing our magazines.

However we now outsource our magazine composition to an external supplier? The symbol variations were brought to my attention by the external supplier.

I questioned this them since the Font Folio 11 library did not include any symbol variations.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Sep 15, 2015 Sep 15, 2015

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Don,

Primary information in terms of what you can and can't do with Adobe fonts can be obtained from the EULA, pointers to which are at Font licensing information, end user licensing agreements | Adobe. Specifically, the EULA for Font Folio 11 can be found at http://wwwimages.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/type/pdfs/eulas/eula-20seat-us-english-07.1... (for the 20 seat version, although other than the number of copies licensed is the only difference between this EULA and the other Font Folio EULAs) as well as Additional License Rights, font permission list | Adobe which provides detailed information of what you can do with each font by font family name.

In terms of modification, the Symbol font allows users to modify the font. The EULA, though, in sections 14.7.4 and 14.7.6 states:

14.7.4 You may convert and install the font software into another format for use in other environments, subject to the following conditions: A computer on which the converted font software is used or installed will be considered as one of your Permitted Number of Computers. Use of the font software you have converted will be pursuant to all the terms and conditions of this agreement. Such converted font software may be used only for your own customary internal business or personal use and may not be distributed or transferred for any purpose, except in accordance with Section 4.4 of this agreement.

14.7.6 If the font software you wish to modify is identified as “licensed for modification” on Adobe's website at: http://www.adobe.com/type/browser/legal/additional_licenses.html, you may also modify the font software provided that such modified software is used only for your own customary internal business or personal use and may not be distributed or transferred for any purpose, except in accordance with Section 4.4. of this agreement. The fonts listed on the website as non-modifiable may be converted in accordance with Section 14.7.4 above but may not be otherwise modified in any way.

The issue now is how can your outsourced designer use these modified fonts. Clearly, they must have a valid license for the Type 1 version of Symbol. Fortunately, the Type 1 version of Symbol is included in Font Folio 11. Thus, if your outsourced designer has licensed Font Folio 11, they have a valid license for use of Symbol. Otherwise, they need to get an individual license for Symbol. You can pass these modified fonts on the designer for use only with your publications (or have them make their own properly modified versions of Symbol with proper family and style names). For the rest of your workflow, you should simply embed the fonts in the PDF files you create and you are “good to go” for printing and/or online PDF viewing. You cannot send the “loose” font files to the actual printer; that's why we have font embedding in PDF!

             - Dov

- Dov Isaacs, former Adobe Principal Scientist (April 30, 1990 - May 30, 2021)

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
New Here ,
Sep 16, 2015 Sep 16, 2015

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Dov,

Based off your correspondence above that reads: A computer on which the converted font software is used or installed will be considered as one of your Permitted Number of Computers, wouldn't the use of modified fonts create a seat count issue?

By this I'm implying that since ItalSymb is created from Symbol then Symbol can no longer be used unless an additional seat count is purchased for it. The same with ItalicSymbolBold. So now we're dealing with three font software files where we only have a license for one.

-Don

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Sep 18, 2015 Sep 18, 2015

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

LATEST

Quite frankly, given your well-founded concerns (and I do admire and applaud your interest in keeping on the right side of the intellectual-property and licensing issues), I would recommend that since you need an italic, bold italic, and possibly a bold version of a font containing the glyphs containing what is in Adobe's Type 1 Symbol font and that Adobe does not offer such variants, that you look to other sources for a true full symbol font family, preferably in OpenType format.

           - Dov

- Dov Isaacs, former Adobe Principal Scientist (April 30, 1990 - May 30, 2021)

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines