unicode glyph ordering for glyphs not specified in glyph list

New Here ,
Jul 11, 2002 Jul 11, 2002

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Maybe for the future - MakeOTF should order all unicode glyphs not be
specified in the adobe glyph list by its unicode values. I have done
roman numerals and if I use the "insert glyph" dialog from InDesign the
glyphs are unordered. So I have to do it manually. Think the application
should order the glyphs - but to avoid any problems it should be done in
the production. Or is it possible with the current build of MakeOTF?

Andreas Seidel
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Open Type FDK

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Explorer ,
Jul 12, 2002 Jul 12, 2002

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This is an interesting suggestion. It seems as reasonable to order non-AGL glyphs by UV values as anything else. However, I would not want to make this option the default setting, becuase glyphs can usefully be manually ordered in ways that differ from the Unicode value order, when trying to optimize lookups, or group glyphs in other logical orders by semantics. If anyone else expresses interest in this, I will put it on our wish list for MakeOTF. However, since this would require several days work, it is not likely to happen soon.

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Enthusiast ,
Jul 17, 2002 Jul 17, 2002

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Also, note that you can control the glyph order for non-AGL glyphs manually by editing the glyph ordering and aliasing file. (Unless you're very sure of yourself, you may want to leave the master version of the file intact, and use a local copy to override the file, for that particular font.)

T

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Community Beginner ,
Aug 17, 2002 Aug 17, 2002

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"Andreas Seidel" <andreas.seidel@grundsatz.de> wrote in message<br />news:3D2E00E6.3F30@grundsatz.de...<br />> if I use the "insert glyph" dialog from InDesign the<br />> glyphs are unordered. (...) Think the application<br />> should order the glyphs - but to avoid any problems it should be done in<br />> the production.<br /><br />Andreas,<br /><br />glyphs are always ordered. Not necessarily in the order you'd like to have<br />them, agreed. But they are ordered.<br /><br />This is why I think the aplication should not re-order anything. From the<br />application's point of view, it is impossible to determine of a particular<br />order of glyphs in the font was intentional or accidental.<br /><br />Adam

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New Here ,
Aug 20, 2002 Aug 20, 2002

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> Andreas,
>
> glyphs are always ordered. Not necessarily in the order you'd like to have
> them, agreed. But they are ordered.
>
Right Adam,

but most - unicode values have an logical order - it made not sense
to let an unordered glyph range in a font file. And my suggestion was
only an option in MakeOTF to order all unicode glyphs (glyphs with an
unicode value in production state - like roman numerals) what not be
specified in the adobe glyph list should be ordered like the unicode
convention. So for example small and big roman numerals be in an
logical, accessible way to use. I think this would be an very useful
option for me. But for an single request Read Roberts would not invest
any time in such a feature. 🙂


Andreas

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Enthusiast ,
Aug 21, 2002 Aug 21, 2002

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Glyphs that are not specified in the Adobe Glyph list, and are not in the glyph ordering and aliasing file, are ordered in alphabetical order. If you are using Adobe's glyph naming conventions for things like roman numerals, they will have names like "uniXXXX" and will therefore end up in Unicode order.

Now, admittedly, some glyphs will have other names, and not end up in their Unicode order, but it does work for a lot of them. And you can always force the ordering.

T

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New Here ,
Aug 21, 2002 Aug 21, 2002

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Thomas Phinney wrote:
>
> Glyphs that are not specified in the Adobe Glyph list, and are not in the glyph ordering and aliasing file, are ordered in alphabetical order. If you are using Adobe's glyph naming conventions for things like roman numerals, they will have names like "uniXXXX" and will therefore end up in Unicode order.


I would be luky if this would work like you said Thomas.

I have checked it again. If I insert some roman numerals into the font
in the following order: II uni2161, III uni2162, I uni2160 the reslut
after generating the font files is still the same.

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Enthusiast ,
Aug 22, 2002 Aug 22, 2002

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That is odd.

Antoine, can you look into this?

T

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Explorer ,
Jan 29, 2003 Jan 29, 2003

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LATEST
Have been reviewing old postings, in preparation for a new release of the FDK in a few weeks. Thomas was incorrect. Glyph names that are in the AGL v 1.2 get put in the font first, in AGL1.2 order. Thenall glyphs covered by the GlyphOrderAndAliasDB file are added, in GOADB order, and then all other glyphs are added, in the order of the source font. To order your glyph names, add them to the GOADB file.

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