ALsp, don't let your hatred for Bootstrap cloud your thinking. That makes no sense. I don't hate Bootstrap. I think it's a waste of time. If you weren't so obsessed with promoting and defending it, you might realize that if Adobe used or built an efficient, effective framework, it would be a godsend for us. We would then simply extend it, providing a UI and other features. Bootstrap is not good enough for that and it would be a waste of time. No, we don't hate Bootstrap, we just think it's badly framed... and the really good coders I know all seem to feel the same way. Strange, huh? Well, obviously, this is a useless discussion because while you think I hate Bootstrap, I know you depend on it. ... View more

Pardon me, I care about resets and so should every web developer. As an example, here is some content shown in different browsers. You've obviously missed the entire point, in the context of which your position is wholly irrelevant. And this is the problem here. ... View more

       pziecina     Mar 21, 2019 11:15 AM  (in response to Al Sparber)            Don't know why you replied to me AL, but every one of your points are correct . My bad. I meant to reply to the original post. ... View more

To everyone who comes here seeking answers... If your CSS skill levels do not provide the information necessary for you to make your own decision on whether to use a reset, the answer is simple. Don't. If your CSS skill levels do not allow you to make a clear decision on the merits, or lack of merits, in using Bootstrap, do not allow it to be forced on you. The bottom line? Learn HTML and CSS to the extent that you can code a page from scratch. Only then will you be able to make a good decision on the merits of using one or more of the free frameworks (such as Bootstrap). Use a framework before you learn to code and I promise you will wind up with problems. In fact, you might not even know you have a problem until it's too late. Stop accepting fish from Adobe or the "experts" in this forum. Learn to fish yourself. You won't be sorry. ... View more

Balderdash. ... View more

I'd love to know the difference between a full-blown reset and a partial reset. If it is a matter of bytes then it is not worth a discussion. You're not paying attention. Read my responses to Nancy. Carefully. ... View more

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote Like most things web-related, Reset CSS comes with lots of differing opinions.  Use whatever works best for you & your projects. Sorry, Nancy, but that's terribly misleading. It's similar to steering someone who knows little or nothing about CSS towards Bootstrap. They will have no idea what the reset does, and will spend hours trying to figure out stupid little related issues such as "why is there no space between my paragraphs." I realize there are varying opinions, but your suggestion is simply inappropriate for a beginner. At least Jon, Osgood, and I are giving little bites and explaining exactly what they do. You can be wrong every once in a while. It happens to the best of us 🙂 ... View more

It was considered good practice to use a reset style sheet a decade ago. It is one of the most common causes of questions by non-CSS-experts and should be avoided. Instead, make your own small reset rules as needed, by project, until you learn CSS properly, which will also prevent you, in most cases, from relying on someone else's overweight code. I would narrow Jon's knowledgeable suggestion further to this: h1, h2, h3, h4, h5 {margin: 0;} But do take your images out of heading tags, as suggested by Osgood. Images do not need a containing tag in your situation. When you get a little more advanced, you can allow paragraphs to use default margins (which, contrary to popular belief, are just fine in most cases), but nip the margins when they are the first paragraphs inside a containing element: p:first-child {margin-top: 0;} ... View more

If you know how to work with them, starter templates can save you a huge amount of development time In the interest of transparency, I gave the OP several options, one of which is related to Bootstrap. I did not, as you so blindly do, push him to Bootstrap. Your sensitivity is giving you away, Nancy. I offered to help gunzelguy. That would involve learning how to code. I don't do mindless, Nancy. There are enough folks inn this forum qualified in that area. Go ahead and lock this thread, because it's pointless and I'm sick of reading your posts. ... View more

Bootstrap is promoted by Adobe and a few of the "ACP" folks. Not everyone endorses Bootstrap here and based on your page, you really should not be using it. The problem in this forum, is that if you post a simple question, as you did, instead of getting a proper error, you get steered into Bootstrap, and that is just so wrong. I'd love to help you, but I'd need the Dallas Cowboys offensive line to run interference just so I could get through to you. I'm sorry. I really am, but you would be better off getting the coding book out or trying to find a CSS forum or mail list not so fanatically in bed with Bootstrap. Feel free to contact me off list and I'll be happy to help you. ... View more

With some due respect, Bootstrap is not good because it's included in Dreamweaver. We know that being included in Dreamweaver actually has been a bad thing more often than not. That Bootstrap was originally written by a group of coders working for Twitter is also not a barometer of its quality. But the bottom line is that the original poster's page and site requirements seem quite easy to do with a couple of hundred lines of code, rather than miles of code 🙂 I did my job and offered a fair warning. ... View more

Bootstrap is not going to help you, unless you want to get into a bigger mess. You started coding that page yourself. It's a simple page. Using Bootstrap would be almost like driving a tractor trailer to pick up a few bags of mulch at the landscapers. Be very wary and weigh all your options. Bootstrap is not Adobe, it is simply the only way Adobe gives Dreamweaver users to lay out a page right now. That does not make it the best solution. ... View more

A UI that requires and gives a purely Visual understanding with a visual feedback to the user. No technical terms. No understanding of what something is for that requires anything beyond what a layperson with no web development of graphic design knowledge, would have. I think Macromedia tried that once 🙂 Look, the subject is typically micro-analyzed here. The same points are made over and over again. Here's an evidenced-based point, and I make it because I've tried it myself. I can make a really pretty page using our Harmony page builder with absolutely no coding and no need to understand what padding is. All I need is a decent command of the English language, and to commit 45 minutes to reading the user guide. Fancy UIs that I think you are talking about are possible We can do one tomorrow. The problem is that we would need to toss all of our customers who use CS6 and under... which is a significant number. Beyond that, I respect your opinion, but disagree with a lot of your thoughts. Thank goodness this forum is not a barometer anymore of the Dreamweaver market base. If it were, I would be quite a bit more concerned about the extension-negativity. But then again, there would likely be more positive opinions expressed. So, I guess it's just a matter of two old ducks shooting the breeze and hopefully not pissing each other off... too much 🙂 ... View more

I'm not saying the approach is beyond delivering some smart looking solutions, all I'm questioning is if the solutions provided are  in the end what the user really wants or do they settle for 'second best', realising it's the best option on offer within their skill level, albeit not quite what was required. It depends on if the extension developer can fill in the gaps between what is and what can be with solid support and enough individual instruction to get the job done. When situations like this come up, we have a good success rate, historically, of getting the customer what he or she wants/needs. A typical example was someone posted in this forum yesterday who knows nothing about code yet really wanted a specific navigation, which was slightly more problematically than usual. I doubt they will find a drag/drop/extension to produce it for them. I can't find the post, but one of the ways we decide on new tools to develop is based on customers asking such questions as you encountered, on our forum, or through emails. But, of course, we can't be all things to all people, but we do evolve the line based on customer requests and trends that seem to stick. For instance, we are working on a drill-down menu system at the moment that will solve a few problems inherent in such widgets made with Bootstrap or WP plugins. Hey, we love what we do, our customers seem to like us, and it's a decent living. We have no aspirations of making Project Seven a huge company... just a comfortable one. It's a good position to be in, as we don't need to meet unwieldy payrolls and such 🙂 My wife is a successful academic, and I'm looking at tidying up and getting out my second novel. Project Seven is a labor of love. ... View more

I think the issue here is 'no coding' is a bit mis-leading. What kind of page are you getting for that price is the question. What are the expectations of those that use extensions. If you follow another forum I don't think anyone in that forum is completely satisfied as they ask questions on a daily basis about including workflows which are beyond the current extensions/programs ability.....so the developers are pumping out updates weekly and introducing bug after bug, just to tread water. I'm not sure what forum you're talking about, certainly not ours. A user can indeed create a wonderful page using our extensions and without coding. If they need more, that's when support come to bear. It's really simple and there should be no confusion. That there iis, is a little frustrating. Will an extension or an application that professes to do it ALL without the necessity to code really fulfill the expecations of the user is the question OR will the user very quickly discover they need more than just an extension or a click and go application to really do exactly what they require/thinking. Are the users of click and go apps or extension just settling for whats on offer rather than what they want. What kind of user uses extensions and is it right of them to over-expect even. Nothing on this planet can do all 🙂 But you can make some pretty good looking stuff with our tools, without coding. If a user wants something more, or different, they ask and we teach. It's that simple. I think you are looking at this from the perspective of a coder. You're good at what you do so it's hard for you to relate. It's our job to relate and we've learned to do it well. That said, we have some pretty advanced coders that use our products as a means to do quick prototypes, and by quick, I mean minutes. Those prototypes act as a baseline for a project and can lead in various directions. The bottom line is the tool has value for them. ... View more

I don't want to start a discussion on extensions, as that would bring nothing to this thread. Even IF a user says they do NOT want to code purchases an extension, we normally find that some coding knowledge is generally required, and I have yet to see/hear-of an extension that has a pure 100% visual layout/functionality interface. I don't know why you have such a negative perception of extensions, Paula. I'm sure you are successful in what you do, so this forum, and Dreamweaver, are probably extra-curricula for you -- but If not for extensions this forum would not exist, nor would Dreamweaver. And I know you have never used our extensions, so generalizing about them is not very scientific. The bottom line is this, and I can only speak for our extensions: Working with the styling options in our UIs, a user can indeed create a page layout, a menu, a gallery, or a panel widget visually, without coding. For those with coding skills, they can use out UI to set user classes and basically do any damn thing they want. So, I really think you are doing my company, and others like us, a real disservice. And frankly, I don't know why. Were you done a dirty by an extension developer once? Did I offend you in some way? And who the heck is the "we" you mention above, the one who has found that some coding knowledge is generally required? Our extensions DO enable non-coders to make stuff. And from what I see of DMX Zone's extensions, so do theirs. And, in conclusion, when we sell someone an extension, we support them - forever. If they need help, we provide it, whether on our forums, via email, or by telephone. And I assure you, our support staff do not work off scripts like most others seem to do these days. They are accomplished coders. We teach as much as anything else, and it rankles me to no end to see what we do so grievously misrepresented in this forum. ... View more

[Side note: ALsp - as a full-time web developer, instructor, and Dw user for over 25 years, I personally find your judgment of ACPs' skillsets is unnecessary, and your understanding of our roles here is lacking. We provide answers, resources, and understanding to the very best of our abilities, without compensation and on our own time, and work hard to extend our knowledge to the community to strengthen it and learn from it at the same time.] Sorry Anissa, I just don't agree. Dreamweaver had an amazing run under Macromedia and actually, has not been around for 25 years. I know this because I was one of the first 3 Dreamweaver Evangelists. I also know that Dreamweaver had a vibrant community for years, and none of the current ACPs were around - at least not in the public newsgroup. Most came later. Stragglers from Drumbeat and GoLive. So, on the subject of Dreamweaver's history, I think I'm pretty qualified 🙂 Dreamweaver's original purpose was not as an application for coders and Dreamweaver grew as a result of its extensibility. Back in 1999, more than half our extensions were free and there were many other free extensions. While we established the market for commercial extensions, they were always a luxury. Please, let's not start rewriting history. There is enough misinformation on this forum. ... View more

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ALsp please explain what my motives are, especially those that are so clear to you. You really need to ask that? You amaze me. You saw an opportunity to promote Bootstrap as the de facto way to make web pages. Perhaps you were sleeping when you posted. ... View more

The closest to a correct answer in my opinion is Bens. I'm so glad you said that. Hats off to preemptive discourse. ... View more

I respectfully disagree.  If Joe Smith asks for advice, and John Dough has had a similar issue in the past and gives advice on how to fix it, then Joe can and _should_ mark the answer as correct, if it does indeed fix Joe's issue.  But, if I am having the same problem, I can say "Hey, this really helped me out.. thanks," by marking the answer as helpful. You would have a valid point except when you consider who actually tagged Nancy's response as helpful. I won't give you name, but will say it is another ACP, whose motives are clear to me 😉 ... View more

Frankly, I really don't care about ACP topics. This my opinion, Nancy. As far as ACPs go, I really don't think many of them have the skill to make those kinds of judgments when it comes to coding issues 🙂 It's a simple matter of logic. If Joe Smith asks for help with an issue, only Joe Smith is in a position to deem a particular response as helpful. I discovered this type of reasoning when I was a teenager, so I could be wrong. But I don't think so. Your response makes n sense to me, but perhaps that's part of the problem with this forum. Anyway, forget it. It's just my opinion and I'm so not in the mood to argue. It is what it is, as the children say. ... View more

Jus for the sake of transparency, the person that marked Nancy's post as helpful, was not the original poster. I think the forum management might want to consider only allowing the original poster, the one who actually has requested help (or an answer) to declare a post helpful. ... View more

If you've got a moment and want some evidence-based insight, drop by our forum and pose the questions, "Why do you use Dreamweaver?" and "How do you use Dreamweaver?" ... View more

Macromedia Dreamweaver started off as a relatively inexpensive program with decent coding support, but its true claim to fame was its extensibility. Extensions, both free and commercial, augmented Dreamweaver, providing automated tools that non-coders could use to make really nice web sites. Adobe Dreamweaver has evolved to a point where it has indeed alienated its customer base. It has seemingly made it much harder to find and install extensions. It has put up a hideously complicated and buggy forum and has sought to herd users into using a non-automated page-building metaphor driven by an obscenely bloated open source CSS and JavaScript framework called Bootstrap. Moreover, it has driven off most of the experts who used to help other customers. What's left are Bootstrap drones. Your job, if you still want to use Dreamweaver, which does have some redeeming value, is to seek out truth, as it were. The logical choices, which might take a little doing to uncover, are to learn how to write CSS (which is really easy) and to augment that with tools (extensions) that can automate your workflow where necessary. Contrary to what others might say in this space, that has always been the way to get the most out of Dreamweaver. ... View more

I've been logged in as "Bootstrap Billy". I think grumpy Ben is behind the whole thing. ... View more

It's been in our company morgue for quite some time, alongside Bootstrap (which is due to be moved out to Boot Hill soon), but I'm just saying... there are many ways to skin a fish (I like cats). I can't argue with your comments about our class name and data methods, I can only disagree, as you are certainly entitled to an opinion. I can, however, at least raise the point that progressive enhancement, which not too long ago was nearly a religious movement, is now an afterthought. With acquaintances involved with the W3C still teasing me about browsers possibly getting an intravenous dose of something very similar to jQuery within the next several years, which would then be made available to the CSS working groups, well... hell's bells. The game could take a very surprising turn. ... View more

An important point worth making here is that we have a fairly large customer base and many of them use Dreamweaver CS6 or earlier. All of our extensions are written to support CS3 through CC2019, and some are even written to support Dreamweaver MX 2004. While the regulars here (all 5 of them) probably think we're nuts, that's our customer base, and satisfying them is very important to us. If we wrote extensions that required CC2018, our UI design approach would likely be a little different, though not much. So thanks for a mostly pleasant discussion 🙂 ... View more

Holy grail is good, Nancy. I'll take a sip  whenever I see it 🙂 In my opinion, though, the bottom line is this forum is dead and Adobe has no idea who is actually using Dreamweaver. So I guess it's all academic 🙂 ... View more