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Banned Participants Question

Engaged ,
Dec 07, 2009 Dec 07, 2009

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I keep getting wind of different longtime faithful participants who have been banned. I can't help but think that many of these are a mistake. So many who are gone were among the most helpful when users needed help.

Can someone who is in authority please offer an explanation? And can you please reassess this situation?

Thank you for your time…

Linda

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replies 145 Replies 145
Explorer ,
Dec 07, 2009 Dec 07, 2009

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I am not an authority but I do think it was all part of the plan...To do a complete turnover. To eliminate anyone who might oppose this terrible change that has taken place. The displacement of long time Adobe fans with the Macromedia ....faithful?....  Just a thought...

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LEGEND ,
Dec 07, 2009 Dec 07, 2009

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Hi Cindy

I respectfully disagree. Basically I believe that what happened was Adobe fell a bit lax on enforcing good conduct in a few places. They only have so many folks to monitor hundreds of forums. So they appointed or allowed different folks to become moderators and help out. What has happened is the direct result of some folks taking things too far with bad behavior and off color comments that were directed at specific individuals. Essentially, ignoring stated policy. Even to the point of taunting moderators.

I have no doubt that there were some that were good contributors. But offering help with products and being far too critical of things that cannot be changed are different things.

In my own opinion there never was any sort of plan. Only some pretty awful reactions by a few very vocal folks. In some cases, it would almost seem that the folks wanted banning to occur in order to become a martyr for the cause to point out how "unjust" it is to expect certain behavior.

Cheers... Rick

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Engaged ,
Dec 07, 2009 Dec 07, 2009

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What about a member by the screen name of Q Photo? He was always very polite, and often attempted to make peace, and yet it came to my attention recently that he also was banned. He has no idea why. He sent an email but never received a response.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 07, 2009 Dec 07, 2009

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Hi there

Q Photo? I don't recall seeing that name in this particular forum. If s/he was banned, it must have happened in a different forum?

Note that it is my understanding that all a moderator may do is suggest to Adobe that someone be banned. It is up to Adobe employees themselves to actually ban the person. And I also understand that this only occurs after they review what was in question and agree that what was presented warranted banning.

I think it's worth pointing out that banning a poster likely takes considerably more effort than one would think. Because of that, I would find it very odd that a host of folks were banned for no obvious or particular reason. I might liken it to deciding to put a stop-payment on a check you have written. You carefully consider it before deciding to move forward.

Cheers... Rick

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LEGEND ,
Dec 07, 2009 Dec 07, 2009

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I remember seeing Q Photo posting here.  So if he was banned "by mistake", what is the proper procedure to rectify the mistake?

Obviously, contacting Adobe by himself does not do any good, and posting here at the forum does neither.

Captiv8r wrote:

Note that it is my understanding that all a moderator may do is suggest to Adobe that someone be banned.

Then surely you moderators have the power to suggest to Adobe to look at a mistaken ban?

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LEGEND ,
Dec 08, 2009 Dec 08, 2009

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pwillener wrote:

I remember seeing Q Photo posting here.  So if he was banned "by mistake", what is the proper procedure to rectify the mistake?

Obviously, contacting Adobe by himself does not do any good, and posting here at the forum does neither.

Captiv8r wrote:

Note that it is my understanding that all a moderator may do is suggest to Adobe that someone be banned.

Then surely you moderators have the power to suggest to Adobe to look at a mistaken ban?

Pat, this is an excellent question (emphasis added by me), and I would think it deserves a serious and prompt answer. Specially because, in this case, several independent users have respectfully questioned the banning.

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Explorer ,
Dec 07, 2009 Dec 07, 2009

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This one is India Research and Development

http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/executivebios/nareshgupta.html

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LEGEND ,
Dec 07, 2009 Dec 07, 2009

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Hi Cindy

What is the purpose of the link? I'm not making the connection? Are you claiming Mr. Gupta is responsible for banning folks or is behind "the plan" you mentioned?

Cheers... Rick

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Contributor ,
Dec 07, 2009 Dec 07, 2009

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Q Photo was a visitor to this forum and I believe I am correct when I say he was banned from here as well.  I concur with LRK's comments that it makes no sense to me either.  Q was primarily on the Photography forum, which is the way both LRK and I know him.

As far as mods not having the authority to ban, well if they don't they certainly seem to be able to travel up the ladder of personnel very quickly as there are some here that were banned fairly quickly.

It does seem to be part of a plan, IMHO.  Far too many good people lost to blame it all on bad manners.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 07, 2009 Dec 07, 2009

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Hi Hopper

Sounds like you are "Q Photo aware"

You say it makes no sense to you as well. This would lead me to believe that whomever this is, was arbitrarily banned with no justification? That seems odd to me. I'm wondering if a simple typo was made and that ID got caught in something that shouldn't have been.

Just wondering... Rick

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Enthusiast ,
Dec 07, 2009 Dec 07, 2009

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Cindy- wrote:

This one is India Research and Development

http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/executivebios/nareshgupta.html

Seems highly qualified... what's your point?

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Explorer ,
Dec 07, 2009 Dec 07, 2009

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shunithD wrote:

Cindy- wrote:

This one is India Research and Development

http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/executivebios/nareshgupta.html

Seems highly qualified... what's your point?

I don't know how that posted on this forum. I thought it was a private email. So this was posted in error. It is not relevant to the conversation, sorry.

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Explorer ,
Dec 07, 2009 Dec 07, 2009

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Hi Rick,  I see you are an "expert" of DW. So unless some of the Photoshop experts or Photography experts or print design experts or pre-press experts or Illustrator experts (you get my point) step up to say otherwise I stand by my previous assessment.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 07, 2009 Dec 07, 2009

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Hi Cindy

No, I'm only a Dreamweaver user. I'm an Adobe Captivate and Adobe RoboHelp Community and Certified Expert for those two products. I'm also an Adobe Certified Instructor for each. Dreamweaver is just another of the many products I use.

Also, I'm simply another forum member as you are. I'm not speaking for Adobe.

I'm guessing that you are seeing some things going on in other fora that I'm unaware of. I only know about and participate in this one as well as a few select others. I've not seen any banning of helpful folks in the fora I frequent. (Well, the fora I montitor outside of this one)

Cheers... Rick

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LEGEND ,
Dec 07, 2009 Dec 07, 2009

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I was going to reply, but thought it better. I was taught that there are times when it's better to remain silent, only that I don't always remember to do so. Fortunately I remembered this time.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 07, 2009 Dec 07, 2009

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You remembered not to post the reply you just did?

Sorry, but that makes no sense to me.

Cheers... Rick

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Contributor ,
Dec 07, 2009 Dec 07, 2009

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Captiv8r wrote:

You remembered not to post the reply you just did?

Sorry, but that makes no sense to me.

Cheers... Rick

OMG, Rick, don't be daft!  He obviously was going to say something different, decided against it and let us know that it's better that he said "nothing" than say what he had in mind.  It's his way of letting us know he has some thoughts on the subject, but chose to keep them to himself.

I really can't believe I just took the time to explain that!

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LEGEND ,
Dec 07, 2009 Dec 07, 2009

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Geez Hopper, I wasn't trying to pick a fight

That's what I inferred. But if you don't have something to add to the conversation, why even bother to post then? Just to "gig" folks? Seems a waste of bandwidth and possibly bordering on inflammatory to me.

By posting that you were taught it's better to remain silent, you are going against the teaching by making that statement, no?

Just sayin... Rick

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LEGEND ,
Dec 07, 2009 Dec 07, 2009

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If you can read in my comment a reply to anything that has been written in this thread, you are a much better reader than me.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 11, 2009 Dec 11, 2009

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I'm guessing that you are seeing some things going on in other fora that I'm unaware of. I only know about and participate in this one as well as a few select others.

Rick,

As most of us have to limit our participation to just a handful of fora, all that most of us can offer are observations, predicated on those fora. I have four that I frequent, and another 4-5 that I drop in on, when I have the time. This is hardly a full overview of all Adobe fora, and is extremely limited. From my observations in those particular fora, I have only seen one person banned, and that poster did the "end run," with maybe three sign-ins. Still, it was obvious to most, who was behind those different personae. Considering the number of posters in my frequented fora, and some of the anti-Adobe comments in many, that seems like a tiny percentage.

Now, I will admit that this particular forum does generate a great deal of unrest, and I can certainly agree that there have been, and still are, problem with the fora, and many of these can likely be traced to the software of choice. Still, considering that state, I am not aware of that many subscribers, who have been banned. Maybe I just do not recognize their absence, or was totally unaware of their presence, in the first place. As this is not one of my main Adobe fora, I probably just missed many, and did not notice their demise. However, Jochem posted some numbers on posts for Adobe fora, and two of my favorites were in the upper group, though not at the top of the heap, so I feel that I do get a fair picture of the product fora.

I would also imagine that Adobe would be anything but cavalier regarding the banning of forum subscribers. From what I have observed over the decades, they are very lenient. Other fora are not so. They are ruled with an iron fist, and if one does not like it, then they are welcome to move on and post elsewhere.

Maybe I have just been naive, or am blinded by my desire to support other users, of the programs that I know. Time might tell.

Hunt

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 09, 2009 Dec 09, 2009

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Cindy- wrote:

Hi Rick,  I see you are an "expert" of DW. So unless some of the Photoshop experts or Photography experts or print design experts or pre-press experts or Illustrator experts (you get my point) step up to say otherwise I stand by my previous assessment.

I moderate the InDesign forum, so I guess I qualify as a "print design expert." I normally stay far away form this forum, and I've never had anyone banned from the InDesign Forum (mods don't do the banning, only suggest candidates). I have thought about it once or twice, though, but I've found deleting individual posts or offensive material has been sufficient to get the message through there. I have no tolerance for personal insults, threats and similar irrelevant and non-helpful posting in what is supposed to be a forum to aid other users.

The comments and lounge forums are a bit more free-wheeling, but there is still a stated policy regarding behavior. I think it's safe to say that most moderators felt that policy enforcement was too lax for too long which led to the need to take drastic action. I personally recommended shutting down the Lounge completely at one time.

There were, indeed, a number of helpful (in the regular product forums) "regular" posters who were banned. With the exception of Q Photo, about whom I know precisely nothing, I would have to say that the original list was completely justified. All of the users on that list were names I recognized as repeat namecallers and rabblerousers. Some were probably victims of baiting by other, worse, offenders, but if you rise (or sink) to that level and take the bait, you get caught. It's not reasonable to treat offensive comments and commenters differently because they happen to have provided good information elsewhere in the past. I'm a little surprised the list wasn't longer.

Different moderators have different personality quirks and styles, and all of us rub some people the wrong way sometimes. We also have good and bad days, just like the rest of you. Most users probably spend less than an hour per day on the forums, posting a particular question or offering advice if they have a spare minute. If other mods are like me, they read hundreds of posts every day, respond to half of them, and neglect their paid work. Nobody pays us to do this. It's a labor of love and we ought to be able to enjoy it without being vilified for trying to keep a bit or order.

NOBODY outside Jive thinks these forums are perfect. They are what we have to work with, however, and hearing the same whining from the same people over and over gets old very quickly. If you have a constructive suggstion for improvement, by all means make it, but don't expect to see it implemented tomorrow. Change takes time. If you make the choice to participate here, you do so knowing what is here, and nobody has forced anyone to be here.

I'll craw back under my rock now and hide from the flames I know this will generate.

Peter

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LEGEND ,
Dec 09, 2009 Dec 09, 2009

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Hi Peter,

Very well said (like usual).

Harbs

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 09, 2009 Dec 09, 2009

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Hi Harbs,

I guess you better duck for cover now, too.

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Advisor ,
Dec 09, 2009 Dec 09, 2009

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Cindy- wrote:

Hi Rick,  I see you are an "expert" of DW. So unless some of the Photoshop experts or Photography experts or print design experts or pre-press experts or Illustrator experts (you get my point) step up to say otherwise I stand by my previous assessment.

I am also from the Adobe side; from the video products world.

I highly dislike the Jive SW.  Like most (if not all)  here; I think it is pretty terrible.   But despite the jive sw; the forums I help moderate are helpful and friendly.  No Banning has been needed there ever that I know of.  I make my opinions known about this Jive sw to adobe, but I do so with respect and without name calling.  Those on the ban list are not there because they complain about Jive.  They are there for breaking the forum guidelines; most notably showing repeated disrespect to other users.

Adobe employees do monitor the forums.   In fact the last time a Sr Adobe employee posted here in this forum; instead of taking advantage of his ear and posting helpful critiques; several users here resorted to personal attacks and name calling.  It is more than appropriate for Adobe to take action to stop this kind of behavior. 

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