Moderation and Thread Moving

[Guest]

I expressed a concern about moving thread from the Forum Comments (this thread:  http://forums.adobe.com/message/2223352#2223352 ) to another area of the forums.  The link still resides in the Forum Comments list.  I suggested that IF such a move were going to be made, folks should be aware that they are being taken AWAY from the Forum Comments area.  I don't feel this is an unreasonable consideration.  Yet, my entire post was summarily deleted without any mention that I had even existed.

Will someone please tell me why alerting the viewer that they are going to another area of the forum is such a heinous crime as to be fully deleted without comment?

hopper

[Curt Wrigley]

I dont agree that a new PM is not obvious.  I think your menu turning orange is rather obvious.  The responses from OPs who's threads I move confirm that.

[the_wine_snob]

Curt,

Though none of the MOD's has contacted me (yet), I get notification via PM of all sorts of things.

If one of my posts was in the wrong forum, I would want it moved, and would appreciate the notification.

I just fail to see the issue, but that's just me, and I spend time trying to help posters get to the right spot for help.

Hunt

[Curt Wrigley]

Hi Hunt,

I dont think there is an issue in the product forums.  Ive never received a complaint about moving a post that is in the wrong forum.  We do it quite frequently.  It seems to be a problem only in This forum.   But each forum tends to have its own personality.

[the_wine_snob]

But each forum tends to have its own personality.

That goes without saying.

I am thankful for the petty bickering in the PrPro forum. It could well be worse.

Now, I do think that many are still hurting from the forum changeover. I know that I am, but life goes on, and Adobe still keeps these up. Many have been helped, since the old forum (RIP) passed from the landscape. Still, there are problems to solve.

Amigo, I do not envy you your "gold cluster," or whatever.

Good luck,

Hunt

[Claudio_González1]

Hunt, if you fail to see the issue and think this is just a small group of resentful oldtimers protesting for nothing, please take a look at what has happened with this thread:

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/487684?tstart=0

[Guest]

Oh, so I guess it really *is* confusing to folks.  Gosh, what a surprise!   And to think that I was berated, insulted, had my common sense brought into question ... oh yeah, and I've not been here long enough to know my way around the forums.

Thanks for all the confidence in me and my forum senses.... NOT.

[Curt Wrigley]

Claudio González wrote:

Hunt, if you fail to see the issue and think this is just a small group of resentful oldtimers protesting for nothing, please take a look at what has happened with this thread:

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/487684?tstart=0

The OP followed that thread just fine to the new location.   The only one complaining in the thread is you.

[Ildhund]

The OP followed that thread just fine to the new location. The only one complaining in the thread is you.

Curt, you're forgetting those (millions? of) users reading the forums by email. There was a question last night about Indesign toolbars in the Comments forum which I saw early this morning. No-one had replied, so I set to trying to help the OP. I spent probably half an hour researching the problem, and only by chance saw before I posted my carefully prepared reply that there were several responses in another forum. Someone had moved the thread without telling anyone other than the OP. It is very frustrating, and I would say downright rude.

Noel

(There was something very wrong with the subject line of your post, so I hope this ends up in the right place.)

[Curt Wrigley]

The sw is certainly far from perfect in how it moves threads.

But, anyone monitoring via email would also see the posts in the correct forum; as you did.  Again; the OP followed the thread with no problem, was being helped in the correct forum by the appropriate product gurus until Claudio interupted those helping to bring up his philosphy on post moving.

[Ildhund]

But, anyone monitoring via email would also see the posts in the correct forum; as you did.

Only if they happen to subscribe to the forum where it ended up. I do, but suppose I didn't - what then? However imperfect it may be, it's not the software moving threads, it's people, and they should have the courtesy to tell others coming later to the scene that a thread has been moved. I could have spent that time doing something useful instead of wasting it because of some forum mod's thoughtlessness.

Noel

[Captiv8r]

Hi Noel

It sounds like you don't understand that when you initiate a post or you reply to one, you are subscribed at the thread level. So it really doesn't matter where the thread ends up, you still find your way back.

You can subscribe to a complete forum. In that case, any and all posts made there end up in your In-Box. And in each forum, irrespective of whether you are subscribed to the forum itself, you may subscribe to individual threads you participate in. That's the default unless you take measures to say otherwise.

That's what Phillip was upset about. He clicked a link in an E-Mail message and ended up in a forum he didn't want to be in.

Cheers... Rick

[Guest]

For the record, I don't use the email form of notification.  I did learn, very early on after my inbox was flooded with messages, to turn off all email notifications.

I still stand by my suggestion and would like to know what the moderators think of it.

[Jochem van Dieten]

greenjumpyone wrote on 9/5/2009 10:16 PM:

I still stand by my suggestion and would like to know what the moderators think of it.

I am rewriting my client to include the name of the forum a thread is

moved to in the message it posts when a thread is moved. Still undecided

on the rest.

[Ildhund]

Thanks, Rick. No, I quite understand how email subscriptions work. I obviously didn't make myself clear. I open my mail client in the morning, and because the Comments forum is first alphabetically, those are the the posts I see first. I see a bewildered poster asking a question that no-one's answered several hours later. Knowing that it's still the middle of the night in America, and a holiday weekend there to boot, I decide to see what I can do to help. I take the time to research possible solutions, compose a reply, and then - by chance - find that the OP has been moved and answered in another forum, and my time has been totally wasted. If I look in my copy of postings in the Indesign forum, the OP is not there - moving the thread does not generate a new email notification. It's only

responses after the move that get notified. It appears in my mail client as a headless snake.

All that is needed is for whoever moves a thread to reply to the OP saying what has happened. As I look at it now, that OP is still there unanswered in the Comments forum with no indication that, if I look somewhere else, I'll see the replies that have come in. Sounds like common courtesy to me.

You're more likely to get a qualified answer to your question in the Widget forum, so I'm locking this thread and I've copied your post to that forum. You can see your post and any replies here: http : // forums . adobe . com / thread / 123456.

>

Good luck!

>

John Doe, Forum Host

Is that so difficult?

Noel

[Guest]

Noel,

your post is pretty darn close to my suggestion in post #63.

[Curt Wrigley]

greenjumpyone wrote:

Noel,

your post is pretty darn close to my suggestion in post #63.

I rather like your suggestion in Post 63.  Except for sw soesnt make it easy to do a copy of a thread.   But; since a copy remains anyway for some period of time due to a jive "bug/feature", the behavior is somewhat similar now.  But, I can hardly speak for all Hosts re putting the reply text you suggest.

[Jochem van Dieten]

Ildhund wrote on 9/5/2009 10:24 PM:

All that is needed is for whoever moves a thread to reply to the OP saying what has happened.

Interesting. I have designed it exactly the other way around for

different reasons. The current comments from my source code read:

// Acting on messages is done i a very specific order

//

// 1. move the thread

//

// 2. add the reply after moving so all watches in the new location get trigerred

// and not the watches in the old location

//

// 3. lock after the reply so we can post an explanation of why we lock the thread

Basically I want to trigger watches in the new location so that people

are alerted to the new message in that forum and try to help the OP. I

guess we have another reason why Jive should fix threading, then the

replies in one forum would thread under the replies in another forum in

email clients.

[Curt Wrigley]

Ildhund wrote:

But, anyone monitoring via email would also see the posts in the correct forum; as you did.

Only if they happen to subscribe to the forum where it ended up. I do, but suppose I didn't - what then? However imperfect it may be, it's not the software moving threads, it's people, and they should have the courtesy to tell others coming later to the scene that a thread has been moved. I could have spent that time doing something useful instead of wasting it because of some forum mod's thoughtlessness.

Noel

If you monitor these fora via email, then you likely subscribe to forums you have expertise in or have some interest in.  Ergo, if you are an email user and dont subscribe to the correct forum for a post, its likely you wouldnt be helping the OP anyway.

[Guest]

Curt Wrigley wrote:

Claudio González wrote:

Hunt, if you fail to see the issue and think this is just a small group of resentful oldtimers protesting for nothing, please take a look at what has happened with this thread:

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/487684?tstart=0

The OP followed that thread just fine to the new location.   The only one complaining in the thread is you.

Curt, quit being rude.  You are just being thick headed about the reason for the complaint.  Claudio has been around the block a time or two and he is simply pointing out what the rest of us users (it would seem the moderators are immune to this) see as being confusing.

Would you rather he be confused about the thread moves and simply stay quiet about it?  Or is that only a rhetorical question to you?

[Curt Wrigley]

greenjumpyone wrote:

Curt Wrigley wrote:

Claudio González wrote:

Hunt, if you fail to see the issue and think this is just a small group of resentful oldtimers protesting for nothing, please take a look at what has happened with this thread:

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/487684?tstart=0

The OP followed that thread just fine to the new location.   The only one complaining in the thread is you.

Curt, quit being rude.  You are just being thick headed about the reason for the complaint.  Claudio has been around the block a time or two and he is simply pointing out what the rest of us users (it would seem the moderators are immune to this) see as being confusing.

Would you rather he be confused about the thread moves and simply stay quiet about it?  Or is that only a rhetorical question to you?

I am pointing out that the purpose of these forums aree to help people.   The OP was directed to the right forum, WAS being helped until Claudio interupted the thread with his philosphy on thread moving, which was quite out of place and not at all helpful.  Keep things in perspective and you will see who is being rude.  Im not wasting any more of my time explaining the obvious.

[Guest]

Curt,

I *do* have things in perspective.  We are users of this forum and we see an issue that has turned up multiple times.  The moderators keep berating the users, who have to deal with this issue each time it comes up, when all we are attempting to do is point out a problem and outline some solutions for it.  What we are getting in return is that we are simply whiners and to shut up.  We are being treated as if we have no concept of the idea of  how a forum works or how to helps users.

Please keep in mind, we are veteran users of forums (and specifically the Adobe forums) and even *we* are having issues, I can't for the life of me understand why you guys think that newbies aren't having the same issues?  Maybe they aren't complaining about it because they have no idea where to go to complain??

[Guest]

Or the newbies come in, asked a question, receive a response and are outta here not really caring as they won't return because got what they wanted.

Veterans like you see the forums different then the casual drive-by interpretation of newbies. You care they don't.

[Captiv8r]

greenjumpyone wrote:

Curt,

I *do* have things in perspective.  We are users of this forum and we see an issue that has turned up multiple times.  The moderators keep berating the users, who have to deal with this issue each time it comes up, when all we are attempting to do is point out a problem and outline some solutions for it.  What we are getting in return is that we are simply whiners and to shut up.  We are being treated as if we have no concept of the idea of  how a forum works or how to helps users.

Please keep in mind, we are veteran users of forums (and specifically the Adobe forums) and even *we* are having issues, I can't for the life of me understand why you guys think that newbies aren't having the same issues?  Maybe they aren't complaining about it because they have no idea where to go to complain??

You need to be a bit specific when you refer to "Adobe" forums. You have to keep in mind that a statement such as that is blanket and infers that all of Adobe's forums were the same prior to moving to Jive. I assure you they were different. I would end up there sometimes while trying to sort where a user needed to be when they posted their question in the FuseTalk forums. Compared to the FuseTalk forums, Adobe forums were "icky" and I was glad I didn't have to use them. But that's just the way I liked to operate.

I don't recall ever attempting to berate anyone or saying anyone here was "thick headed". If it came off that way, please understand that it was never intended that way. However, I've seen LOTS of name calling and bad behavior exhibited by some here when referring to the mods. Geez, why can't we express different views without the name calling. So what if you like Mayo on your burger and I like Mustard. What a boring world it would be if everyone viewed things the same way!

It would seem that unless everyone agrees with a certain point of view, they are deemed idiots and incapable of understanding how the forums should work in the view of perhaps 10 of the millions of forums users out there.

If the user wanted to complain, the solution is as easy as clicking the link in the E-Mail message generated by the thread. And I know your next post will be to emphatically advise me all about how you hate web crap and you turn off E-Mail messages and if you were a new user you would never see the message. But please understand that's just how YOU - As a veteran forum user likes to operate. I honestly don't believe it's remotely close to being representative of how a new user operates. I've been using forums in many different incarnations for more years than I care to remember. I can't really think of a better way to operate. Message comes in and off I go. Or I ignore it and delete it if I can't offer help.

I'd be willing to bet a substantial sum of money that if any research were performed, a new user has no clue or even cares about the E-Mail subscriptions. I've actually seen a few posts where the users commented on that feature that they didn't realize it would happen. They were concerned they would have to return to the forums and figure out where their post was to see if anyone replied. They were delighted when replies were automagickally E-Mailed to them.

Cheers... Rick

[Guest]

Rick you don't have to live with that garbage in the title!

[Captiv8r]

Yeah, I was acting as a noob. And just being lazy. Annnd, thought that perhaps I might get slammed for changing the thread title. I hear some folks don't like that because it mucks up continuity with threads. Maybe that's only for newsreaders.