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Point system on forum

Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 18, 2010 Sep 18, 2010

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I'm sure this has been discussed at length, but I am not a fan of users selecting the "right" answer and points being awarded. Many novice users do not know what the right answer is and vote incorrectly, or there are multiple right answers. I feel this just adds a competitive edge to the forums that is not helpful. I'm a competitor and, I'll admit, when I give a right answer and someone else gives the same answer and gets the "vote", I'm disappointed. There are great, helpful people in these forums and I am indebted to them, that's why I'd like to share some of the knowledge I've gain. I suppose I just need to grow up and ignore the silly point system that is now in place.

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LEGEND ,
Sep 25, 2010 Sep 25, 2010

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the_wine_snob wrote:


That valued contributors have left is a shame and the Adobe community has lost an irreplaceable resource.

In fact most of them didn't belong to the "Adobe Community". For PS and Photography it was just "the forums" in those days, as it had been, stretching back to Compuserve times.

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LEGEND ,
Sep 25, 2010 Sep 25, 2010

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I see that you do not like the term "Adobe Community." I wonder if perhaps some of the problem could reside in that?

Just curious,

Hunt

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LEGEND ,
Sep 25, 2010 Sep 25, 2010

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the_wine_snob wrote:

I see that you do not like the term "Adobe Community." I wonder if perhaps some of the problem could reside in that?

What problem?

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LEGEND ,
Sep 25, 2010 Sep 25, 2010

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Hi Hunt

I recall several months ago where some folks in this forum were just seething at the fact an "Adobe Community" even existed. Somehow some folks tied the fact there was such a thing to the forums change. If I recall, the general perception was that these "Community" folks were somehow responsible for the forums change. (and by extension, for driving folks away) So perhaps there is a bit of that at play?

Speaking as someone that has participated in many different forums over the years, I can say that while Adobe probably hasn't always had an officially recognized and sanctioned "community", they certainly aren't unusual in having recognized individuals for lots of participation. For example, with Microsoft, I have been recognized as an MVP for several years. Long before Adobe acquired the products I'm proficient with, I was recognized as an MVP with one company. Then the company changed hands and was acquired by Macromedia. There, they had the "Team MacroMedia" designation. Then Adobe acquired Macromedia and afterward, decided to create Adobe Community Expert (but the acronym conflicted with Adobe Certified Expert) and now we have the initialism of ACP (Adobe Community Professional).

It's unfortunate that there seems to be a divide that has occurred. Some folks are annoyed that a community exists and they somewhat understandably feel that the existence of a community results in a disconnect and creates elitism. But on the other hand, when you look at some of the posts and contributions made by community members, it's a small recognition for providing an above average level of activity and active support for their products. And in many cases, much better support than their own support staff provide.

Now this wasn't meant to slam the support staff. I'm sure it's a difficult task to provide support for 80 or 90+ products. But the folks in the forums are likely using only a few products and on a daily basis. So familiarity has a lot to do with knowing how to respond to issues that arise. It just happens.

So I think Adobe probably takes the view that recognizing some of the more helpful individuals actually results in a couple of rather intangible benefits.

The Community Professionals help resolve issues and by doing so are creating some good will and better feelings toward Adobe as a company.

Community Professionals probably result in decreasing support costs by providing "free" support of the products via the forums.

Sorry to ramble. Kind of bored as I sit on my front porch while my wife conducts a garage sale. (I hate garage sales - nothing like working your tail off for pennies an hour!).

Cheers... Rick

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LEGEND ,
Sep 25, 2010 Sep 25, 2010

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Yes, it was indeed rambling. With a touch of paranoia perhaps?

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LEGEND ,
Sep 25, 2010 Sep 25, 2010

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LOL, no paranoia. Just trying to explain how the "community" came to be. For someone that may have wondered why "community" may be perceived by some as a bad thing.

Cheers... Rick

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LEGEND ,
Sep 25, 2010 Sep 25, 2010

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It was an on-line meeting of "community" members, moderated by Adobe Admin that put a (non-unanimous) seal of approval on the recommendation to adopt jive as a forum platform.


How this body of worthies came to be is certainly not a mystery to most of us. It has been explained many times at great length.


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Advocate ,
Sep 27, 2010 Sep 27, 2010

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John Joslin wrote on 9/25/2010 10:41 PM:

It was an on-line meeting of "community" members, moderated by Adobe Admin that put a (non-unanimous) seal of approval on the recommendation to adopt jive as a forum platform.

The recording of the online meeting you are referring to is available at

http://adobedev.adobe.acrobat.com/p61676377/ You only have to listen to

the first 60 seconds to hear that it is an announcement of a decision

made by Adobe, not some option to approve a recommendation. (In fact,

the decision to move to Jive was made as early as 2008, while the

recording is from Februari 2009.)

Considering that you have confirmed that you have seen that particular

recording in http://forums.adobe.com/message/1994034#1994034 I am

wondering why you are posting something that is factually incorrect.

Would you care to explain?

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LEGEND ,
Sep 27, 2010 Sep 27, 2010

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I was referring to the debate.


Why were they having it if the change was a fait accompli?


It's all water under the bridge now anyway.


I just wish jive wouldn't keep getting worse!

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LEGEND ,
Sep 27, 2010 Sep 27, 2010

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LATEST

John Joslin wrote:

...Why were they having it if the change was a fait accompli?...

Likely to provide a heads up for those of us that were participating in the forums. It's quite common for Adobe to hold an advisory to announce decisions.

And if memory serves, there were quite a few community members that were more than unhappy with the decision to use Jive.

Cheers... Rick

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LEGEND ,
Sep 25, 2010 Sep 25, 2010

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Rick,

I wonder. You make some good points. It is probably just my perspective, but I am glad for all contributors to these fora. I do not care if they are "Community Professionals," "MVP's," "Adobe Employees," or if they make their first post to solve someone's problem, or answer someone's question.

When I have a question, or a problem, I do not care if the answer comes from someone with 50,000 posts, or 1. Whether they have salami slices hanging all over their Profile. If the answer works, I tell them thanks, and verify that it was the correct answer. Now, I'd do the points thing, but mainly to mark the thread as answered, at least for me, the OP.

I do a lot of articles in a Tips & Tricks sub-forum, mainly to keep from having to type the same answers over and over. In many cases, I have appended answers/inclusions from first time posters, who had something very worthwhile to add to those.

Some fora are very fortunate, and have some active Adobe Employees, plus some Community Experts. Some have no Community Experts, and an Employee is seldom seen. Some are a mix.

I suppose that it's just my naïveté, but I have zero problem where the correct answers come from. It could be a MOD, or other. It's about getting those answers, that I find important.

Just my limited observations,

Hunt

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LEGEND ,
Sep 26, 2010 Sep 26, 2010

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Hi Hunt

Sorry if you inferred that I was suggesting that the only valid answers are ever really obtained from recognized folks. I don't believe I suggested that. If it was interpreted that way it certainly wasn't intended to be.

I'm aligned with you in that as long as the poster gets the help they came after, it really doesn't matter who offered the helpful suggestion suggestion came from. To me, that's the beauty of something like the forums. They level the playing field that way by offering the ability for anyone to reply if they feel they have the answer.

Good on ya for the tips articles. Those help all involved!

I do see the same thing in different forums. In one of them I also see participation by Adobe employees. However, I do agree that type of participation as possibly being a negative thing. I'm quite happy to see the developers participate because it should give them a much better feel for the real world issues that arise with their products. On the other hand, it tends to give folks the false illusion that all forums have members of the development team waiting with bated breath to discover suggestions and bugs from the forum participants. So it builds somewhat of a false hope. Especially if they have been using a product where they have seen a fair amount of developer interaction on the forums, then begin using one where there is no involvement at all.

Cheers... Rick

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LEGEND ,
Sep 26, 2010 Sep 26, 2010

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Sorry if you inferred that I was suggesting that the only valid answers are ever really obtained from recognized folks. I don't believe I suggested that. If it was interpreted that way it certainly wasn't intended to be.

Rick,

That was not my interpretation of your comments. I did infer a bit of that, in the responses by others. Basically, a newcomer was lacking the proper qualifications to determine if an answer was correct, or not. In many cases, I can agree completely, but in others, if a suggestion works for the OP, what better answer would be required? No, probably just my not being clear - sorry.

I also see the potential for confusion on the part of posters, especially those who have just "arrived." OTOH, we are so blessed to have that presence, because those folk can give us "under the hood" input, that few of us mere users would have access to. Their presence can be a double-edged sword. Gong back to about the introduction of CS3, there were two Adobe Employees (though neither had that it their ID's, but we knew who they were), and some posters ranted at them unmercifully, as they tried to help things. One was "outed," by some comments, that he made, while trying to help. Suddenly demands that he personally address a ton of perceived issues flew. It got ugly, and both just flat refused to stop by again. I recall that time in vivid detail, and when our first Adobe Employee (in awhile) showed up, many of us welcomed him, and did our best to run interference for him, should the revolt start anew.

Well, what do you know? Not only did Dennis add so very much to the fora (teaching us old-times a thing or two along the way), but he added several additional employees too. So far, things are very civil, and we all plan on keeping them that way. I'll accept the downside, for the extreme contributions that these folk make, and tell 'em thank you every day, if it'll keep 'em coming back. I do see your point though. I see the lack of Adobe direct support in the "little-brother" program to the above cited one. Some days, I wish that we'd get one employee visit, say once per week. For one very perplexing problem, I broke down and sent a PM to one of the guys in PrPro, asking for some info on the inner-workings of PrElements. He got my answer in a day, and fired it back to me. That helps, but I hated to involve him in a sub-forum, especially for a program that he had zero development input. Luckily, the office was just down the hall from his, so he got me the answer. I never let the forum know where the info came from, as I did not want subscribers to expect that sort of interaction in the future.

Hunt

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 24, 2010 Sep 24, 2010

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Looks like I'm not the only one. I DID pull back from the forum over a year ago, partly on this issue (and the fact I'd been laid-off and had other priorities).

I've mellowed a bit in the last year (I hope) and am willing to ignore the imperfections of the "system" to glean the benefits. And those benefits are many. I could name names, but I'd miss someone.

Ray

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 25, 2010 Sep 25, 2010

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The ghost of the wine snob is still with us.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 25, 2010 Sep 25, 2010

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The following thread may hold the most amusing post about points, ever, in all the forums (unless/until someone destroys it by telling the OP something):

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/727999

Are there other threads worth sharing here?

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LEGEND ,
Sep 25, 2010 Sep 25, 2010

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Ten points to you for making a point of pointing out how pointless points can be. Especially when you are trying to to make a point about adjusting points and not awarding them.

Out of curiosity, was the OP attempting to adjust the points for outlining the antlers on an eight point Buck?

And the most burning question of all. Did the OP get pointed in the correct direction?

Cheers... Rick

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Enthusiast ,
Sep 25, 2010 Sep 25, 2010

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communities grow. they're organic. they're not just plopped down like astroturf. there was a community here before it was ripped up and replaced with astroturf.

but see how nice and green it stays?

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LEGEND ,
Sep 26, 2010 Sep 26, 2010

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Bill, Dave, John, Rick (alphabetical order),

Is this new discussion about the communities (two very different ones have been mentioned) really necessary? Or serving any useful purpose? Or is it just reopening semi-healed wounds?

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Enthusiast ,
Sep 26, 2010 Sep 26, 2010

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no, you're right. sorry. revisionist history though makes me itchy.

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LEGEND ,
Sep 26, 2010 Sep 26, 2010

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Claudio González wrote:

Bill, Dave, John, Rick (alphabetical order),

Is this new discussion about the communities (two very different ones have been mentioned) really necessary? Or serving any useful purpose? Or is it just reopening semi-healed wounds?

Hmm, well isn't this the place to discuss the forums? Or did I somehow magickally end up over in a forum dedicated to Photoshop where the conversation wouldn't be aligned with the forum's purpose? Hey, things happen and posts get moved!

Am I mistaken in my understanding that the communities factor into these? When you think about it, assuming the point system were to actually mean anything, theoretically, if Adobe wanted to, they could adopt a policy whereby if you were to become a Community Professional or whatever, it might be a first requirement that you obtain a certain number of points in order to be considered for the program. But I'd be surprised if that were to happen. I've seen folks appear as Community Professionals that I've never seen participate in the forums.

I see the discussion of community or points here to be in the proper place. And it certainly wasn't intended to open any old wounds (whatever those may be or whomever may have them). I fail to understand the "wounds" reference. Who was wounded and what does that have to do with community or points? When I read the thread, I see your first post in it started talking about the outdated forum software and bugs. To me, that seems out of alignment with the thread. But whatever.

I have to respectfully disagree with the earlier comment about "Astroturf". A simple fact appears to be ignored here. That simple fact is that the new forums (and community) is/are now quite simply a homogenized mix of several smaller communities that did, in fact, organically grow before being absorbed into the Adobe framework. Many of those are still perfectly intact and coexisting quite well.

Admittedly, I'm scratching my head in puzzlement. Maybe because I'm a Community Professional member my participation here is not desired?

Cheers... Rick

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LEGEND ,
Sep 26, 2010 Sep 26, 2010

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Rick, I have been censored more than once, and rebuked many times, for retaking discussions of long ago without apparently adding anything new. So it is not a matter of whether this is the right forum to discuss the forums. What I questioned is the need to reopen a very long and never ending discussion, probably spread over many threads, only to repeat what has already been said. The same arguments will produce the same results: no participant will ever convince any other participant that s/he is wrong on this. Please forgive me, but I connot see any utility for the forums or their participants in doing so.

Perhaps the matter is so sensitive for me because I live in a country where, every now and then, some politician or another will unbury things that happened 40 years ago. And the same arguments will be repeated once more ad nauseum by both parties, while anything important for the country is left aside for as long as the "new" discussion lasts. In my humble opinion, if there are things that cannot be forgiven, they can at least be forgotten -in the sense of not prolonging more that strictly necessary futile discussions that don't manage to convince anyone, and are limited to repeating the same arguments over and over again.

So I ask again the questions you seem to have missed: Is this discussion necessary? Is it serving any useful purpose? Or is it just reopening semi-healed wounds? I ask because your arguments (not new) refer only to one of the two communities that have been mentioned in this thread, and it seems to me that you are conveniently ignoring the other.

I was very pleased to see that Dave saw and accepted my point at once; and find it curious that you seem to think that my plea was a sort of personal insult to you.

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LEGEND ,
Sep 26, 2010 Sep 26, 2010

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We have a saying in England: "There's none so blind as those who will not see".


That supports Claudio's argument about futility.

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LEGEND ,
Sep 26, 2010 Sep 26, 2010

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John Joslin wrote:

We have a saying in England: "There's none so blind as those who will not see".


...

The equivalent in Spanish speaking countries translates to "there is none so deaf as those who do not want to listen"...

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 26, 2010 Sep 26, 2010

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I agree completely with Claudio.

Please.

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