Welcome Dialog

Welcome to the Community!

We have a brand new look! Take a tour with us and explore the latest updates on Adobe Support Community.


What are the "forum alternatives"?

Advocate ,
Jun 07, 2009 Jun 07, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

So if Adobe really does start to come around and consider the fact that this "Jiveware" is not working out to everyone's satisfaction, has anyone discussed or researched the alternatives yet?

Obviously they have had their own internal research but it doesn't mean we can't help and make suggestions based on well functioning examples of high traffic forums that we may have seen on other sites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_forum_software

Wiki has a section here (if the link works) with "subarticles" that contains ASP, PHP, and "Other" forum software comparisons.

It's not like Adobe is the only company that has a long list of high volume forums out there--what do others use?  I'm sure it's not Jiveware.

Views

11.8K

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Mentor ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Is it the PHP or BB (bulitenboard) part.?

I know we had this BuletinBoard, prior to my stopping participation in my Association website. And the had several security upgrades to the PHP system, while I worked with website.  I just threw it out as a possibility, as Its fast. Prior to moving from LunarPages our Domain Provider at the time and switch to new, they went through several upgrades. Some security related other performance related.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advisor ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

PjonesCET wrote:

Is it the PHP or BB (bulitenboard) part.?

[edited] phpBB is popular enough to also be a popular target. I seem to recall several phpBB sites fell victim to a vulnerability some years ago. If using it, one should keep it up to date (subscribe to their related notifications). That holds true for any system, of course.

Another source for such alerts and bulletins is http://www.us-cert.gov/

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Mentor ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

wasn't webcrossing>? someone just said it th most popular forum for Fortune 500 Companies.

And wouldn't the same hold true for the Jive Talk" we are now on?

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I don't know for sure if Jive is all that popular (I'd guess it's not popular at all), but "security through obscurity" is not good security.  So if Jive really is more secure than an open source alternative or even a popular low cost alternative.... well... do we know that for sure?

It doesn't even work properly and we're talking about whether it's secure, heh, highly doubtful.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advisor ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Jive lays claim to some big customers too - and some of them even use it for public forums. But neither is as popular as phpBB, if popular is defined as number of public sites using the software[1].

Agreed, security by obscurity (or even by proprietary) is not security at all. The unscrupulous do tend to go for the easier targets, though.

[1] I am only guessing here - no stats to back up this claim or even a desire to look it up 😉

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Yikes! Jive does claim some big customers, and actually it's a much more impressive list. What's going on here? It's hard to believe I've never come across this rubbish before, looking at that list.

Oracle??

NASA? Are people at NASA giving each other points and marking answers "correct"?? (Now we know why they've been having accidents..)

Then again, it is government.

This is an impressive list, you have to admit, even if you hate Jive.

http://www.jivesoftware.com/customers

What's going on here?

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
LEGEND ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

What's going on here?

A lot of people are jumping to ridiculous conclusions, and pointing

blame with no facts whatsoever!

Yes, there are bugs. But all the indications are they are being worked

on.

I believe that Adobe's implementation of Jive's software is not

completely standard -- which leaves room for more problems than the

usual.

We are experiencing growing pains (a lot of them), but we really

should cut these people a little bit of slack (both at Adobe and at

Jive). Give them some time to sort the (many) problems out, and then

we can see if there's what to complain about...

Sometimes I have to laugh out loud at some of the statements made in

this forum...

Harbs

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Yeah, I don't know, whatever I guess.

But Jive gets no "free pass" until they've proven they didn't deceive and steal money from Adobe via "creative" marketing.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Participant ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Philip: PHP is the scripting language. It's not the language chosen that is usually the problem, but the developers implementation of it. It was the application PHPBB, that has had some core issues. Then when one adds components (extensions) developed by different developers, one opens up a Pandora's box.

There are better implemenations of PHP bullentin boards IMO, but enterprises prefer to use JAVA. I know most banks here in Canada, use JAVA for their secure websites.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Jun 07, 2009 Jun 07, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Kath-H wrote:

If that has to be NNTP, so be it. If it means speed, reliability, permanent log-ins, stripped-down-efficient-speedy-interface,

It really is about that simple. We don't need the fancy features. Although ability to post source code would be pretty nice.

PHPbb, maybe, it's the first thing that came to mind for me as well.  I don't know what kind of technology skillset Adobe staff has access to, I think that's important.  I think what would be helpful if we actually make note of the forum software being used by other high use communities, when we come across them, and post those as examples of "how it should be done".  Most of them usually tell you what they are at the footer, vBulletin, UBB.threads, etc.

Fast forums usually seem to be either asp or php.  Never jsp, which is probably what Jive is relying on.  I've done jsp, it's a miserable way of life and it's basically an old, defeated technology on it's way to the IT history books.

I'm trying to think of the most active forum examples out there... who would have this?  Google, Microsoft, Ebay, Amazon, Myspace, Facebook?  Some of those, I'm not even sure they have a user forum like this, but there has to be Internet communities out there larger and more active than this one.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Contributor ,
Jun 07, 2009 Jun 07, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

FWIW, I really liked the clean style of the WebX forum.  It wasn't bloated with the cute little icons, avatars, tabled views of topics etc.  It was a nice, clean list of topics, you could scan a bunch of previous posts and quote easily from them, it remembed where you left off, so no search to see what really was the last post you read.  Most of the "new" boards out there are full of the bloated icons.  It probably works well for them, as they don't have the traffic of this board, but for here, the clean and fast is the, FMV, the best way to go.

hopper

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Guru ,
Jun 07, 2009 Jun 07, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

The only thing that has not changed, like we were told was in the works, is the Terms of Service. But that was a whole different thread so long ago.

I find it faster to do a google search to find something in the forums or information that I need.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Enthusiast ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

it's a miserable way of life and it's basically an old, defeated technology on it's way to the IT history books.

<Ricky>I dun thin so Lucy!</Ricky>

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

dave milbut wrote:

it's a miserable way of life and it's basically an old, defeated technology on it's way to the IT history books.

<Ricky>I dun thin so Lucy!</Ricky>

Please tell me you don't like JSP. I'd rather get a new job than touch that rubbish. Not sure if that's just a joke or what. Plus, Jiveware is using it-- replying to messages it says "post!reply.jspa" in the url.  Only forces of evil use it.  It's no wonder they have so many bugs, they use the dark side.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Enthusiast ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Ansury wrote:

dave milbut wrote:

it's a miserable way of life and it's basically an old, defeated technology on it's way to the IT history books.

<Ricky>I dun thin so Lucy!</Ricky>

Please tell me you don't like JSP. I'd rather get a new job than touch that rubbish. Not sure if that's just a joke or what. Plus, Jiveware is using it-- replying to messages it says "post!reply.jspa" in the url.  Only forces of evil use it.  It's no wonder they have so many bugs, they use the dark side.

yes, actually i like javascript.  it's a critical piece of the web and allows great flexibility for things that need to be done client side. i don't think you really know much about it to talk about it the way you do.  ALL major browser development in recent years has centered around javascript performance. it's certainly not dying, but it IS headed for the history books.

post!reply.jspa

jsp files are java server page files. jspa's are java applets. neither has ANYthing to do with javascript (except that they're names are kinda similar, but not really). 

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

dave milbut wrote:

jsp files are java server page files. jspa's are java applets. neither has ANYthing to do with javascript (except that they're names are kinda similar, but not really). 

Yes, I know all that. I've worked with all of the above technologies. Above I wasn't talking about JavaScript at all, I was talking about JSP/JSPA. I think overuse of JavaScript also sucks (Jive being a prime example), but I wouldn't say it's going out of style. JSP on the other hand, blows, and deep down all JSP developers know it.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Enthusiast ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

A .jspa web extension, for example forum.jspa?forumID=1, represents a servlet alias and therefore .jspa files do not exist on the file system. Jive Forums and Jive Knowledge Base both use a web framework called WebWork and the .jspa extension maps to the WebWork servlet controller. So when a request is made to forum.jspa?forumID=1, the following actions occur:

  1. The application server knows to pass control to the dispatcher servlet because of the .jspa mapping declared in the web.xml file.
  2. The dispatcher servlet knows which "action" to execute based on the alias ("forum" in this case). An Action is a Java bean which handles logic for the view. In this case, a forum is requested so the forum action is loaded and other things like permissions and authentication are handled.
  3. The action executes and returns a response code. Based on that code, the dispatcher servlet will redirect to a JSP page. The page is executed and uses objects loaded by the action class.

To determine what JSPs are executed when a .jspa is called, view the a "xwork-actions.xml" file in jiveforums.jar or jivekb.jar. If you are using Clearspace or Jive Forums 5.5 or greater the file is called "xwork-community.xml" and is in the clearspace.jar or jiveForums.jar respectively.

http://www.jivesoftware.com/jivespace/docs/DOC-1792

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advisor ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

We are hardly in a position to offer alternatives when we don't know all the requirements for the system. For instance, one of the criteria mentioned is that it should have a points system that can be integrated with another part of the site. What was it ... Community Help? Something like that.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Mark A. Boyd wrote:

We are hardly in a position to offer alternatives when we don't know all the requirements for the system. For instance, one of the criteria mentioned is that it should have a points system that can be integrated with another part of the site. What was it ... Community Help? Something like that.

We know many of the major requirements, we are the primary users!  And points, really, isn't an important one.  It seems points have been deemed more critical than NNTP support, which really is kind of sad.  I wouldn't say Adobe should be deciding what the requirements are without even consulting their customers, if this kind of result is what we get.

Now, I've never suggested we do the research for Adobe, just that we come up with a list of actual forums (currently used by major websites) using alternative software to assist in finding something that meets the community's major requirements.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advisor ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Points are not important to you, me, and the majority of users who've posted their opinions in this forum, but they are apparently important to Adobe - very important. Otherwise, my suggestion is to drop Web forums completely and just use NNTP. Low maintenance costs, easily searched via dejanews.com, post code without worrying about translation for the Web, etc. Unfortunately, NNTP does not provide the bells & whistles Adobe wants for their system.

And most of the flames would be about top/bottom posting, stop sending HTML to newsgroups, PC vs Mac etc... 🙂

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Mark A. Boyd wrote:

Points are not important to you, me, and the majority of users who've posted their opinions in this forum, but they are apparently important to Adobe - very important.

This is the problem isn't it?  They're choosing and prioritizing their own set of requirements, which they are free to do, but aren't they here to support their customer requirements first?  We know the feature requirements, not Adobe management (painfully obvious).  However since apparently nobody (myself included) seems able or willing to offer working alternatives, I guess Jive really is the only choice.............................. heh.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
LEGEND ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

You are going over old ground.


Well-trodden ground.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Advocate ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

John Joslin wrote:

You are going over old ground.


Well-trodden ground.

So, you've seen a community-created list of alternative forum software--great, what's the thread called?

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Explorer ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Couldn't handle the load of both sets of forums, that's what we were told.

BZZZT...

couldn't handle the load AT the price adobe was paying/willing to pay. there, fixed that for ya.

… which provided a splendid excuse because somebody at Adobe had a vested personal interest in adopting Jive?

When a crime has been committed, as it has at the expense of the Users of these Forums, just "follow the money" …

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Explorer ,
Jun 08, 2009 Jun 08, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Only the market can set a "realistic and fair price", it's not up to just Adobe alone. 

How many of their other customers have quit?

My guess is that Adobe tried to play the "Bully Card" and were told they could stuff it!

Basically Adobe has got too big for its boots and has lost sight of its prime market and the needs of its customers.

As I have said before, I am no longer prepared to help in any of their Forums until they get rid of this format in its entirety,

"Points" and these ludicrous and meaningless titles (Community EXPERT?!!!) have destroyed all meaningful discussions and left us with only mundane Newby questions and ungrateful petulant responses to any help that is proffered.

Most of the former contibutors with any real knowledge of the Applications or the Industry have abandoned these Forums.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines