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Whatever happened to the adobe newsgoup nntp forums

Community Beginner ,
Jun 09, 2011 Jun 09, 2011

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Thanks for any help / commentary you can give.

This should really be that last line

Haha.  Everytime I hit ENTER, the Javascript code on this forum takes me to the first line of the post.  This sould be on the last line, but it is on the first

These forums are a valuable place to find help, but I was wondering why adobe did away with the old Adobe newgroups.  Those newsgroups were even better.  Plain 80 column text.  None of this fancy gay HTML, stylized crap.  Sure you had a bit of spam, but that is the price of freedom.  Here, it is a pain in the but to get anything done.  The forums do not like my browser of choice (Opera), and want me to use a [edited by host] browser like Mozilla or IE.  Does anyone have any thoughts on theh matter, or would be interested in getting a Adobe NNTP newsgroup started.  I am one of those cromudgeons who don't like fancy graphics, and think that if you are using anything other than ed to edit code you are a [edited by host].

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LEGEND ,
Jun 09, 2011 Jun 09, 2011

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Harry, you are not addressing Adobe here, just fellow users. And there are still old timers left, who strongly opposed the violent and forced imposition of this new version of the forums even during a theoretical initial trial period. Unfortunately, we did not succeed. Not only that, but we also lost many of the most valuable contributors of the old forums, either because they finally left in disgust when they saw that we were no longer heard, or because they were banned when they protested too violently. Some of us are still doing some sporadic efforts to change things for the better, or just getting bugs corrected, but our efforts are not welcome. Such efforts are getting unfortunately more sporadic, so may be Adobe will finally win this battle. At what price, only the future can tell.

Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear.

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 09, 2011 Jun 09, 2011

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Hopefully I can type my answer without having to type "Enter"

Claudio, thanks for the reply.  It was helpfull. I really did not expect to have adobe answer and change their minds about the current direction of the web.  I am trying to put a feeler out there and see if there are any USERS who still know what NNTP is or would be interesting in learning about it.

I realize the way of the world is gay HTML, fancy graphics, and style over information, and I have to adapt to it.  However that doesn't mean I have to take it lying down. 

I was really wondering if there would be any support for a newsgroup not sponsored by adobe.  Just users helping other users.

Thanks

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LEGEND ,
Jun 10, 2011 Jun 10, 2011

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Harry, my guess is that you would find great support in the ex-Macromedia products users. It was them who had a sort of NNTP newsgroup; we ex-Adobe users only had a normal site like this one, but no-nonsense, fast, and highly functional. I wouldn't know how to identify any of them nowadays, but I will give it a try in the forums in Spanish if I have the time. Unfortunately, I understand that a majority of them just left, but I remember that many of them were talking of forming their own group.

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Mentor ,
Jun 10, 2011 Jun 10, 2011

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Yes I know what NNTP is and despite the big companies trying to kill it. It's stil alive and well. There are many Open Source communities that still depend upon it. and it’s the one system out their that built so well That there has never been a case reported of it going down. Pretty Good track Record since its nee active since the 60's. I read many groups on NNTP and actually prefer it over these web based forums. That develop new problems day to day. But you have to work with what is dealt.

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LEGEND ,
Jun 10, 2011 Jun 10, 2011

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harrytuttle777 wrote:


I realize the way of the world is gay HTML, fancy graphics, and style over information...

NNTP allowed HTML as well, if I remember correctly.  And I see nothing wrong with "[edited by host]" HTML.

The problem with this forum software is not its formatting capabilities (which have already been severely curtailed to punish spammers), but what it does with your cursor.  It suddenly jumps to the next line, or then to the top of the editing area.  Sometimes when you are typing, sometimes when you are not even touching the keyboard.

Hopefully the new software version will finally fix that (after 2¼ years since its initiation).

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LEGEND ,
Jun 10, 2011 Jun 10, 2011

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harrytuttle777 wrote:

Thanks for any ... commentary you can give. 


You want honest commentary?  Personally, I find your choices of wording and your attitude offensive.

Forums with people helping people are the best things the Internet has to offer, competing with overwhelming things like porn and spam.  A web browser opens the sharing of information to all users.

Though this forum software is far from perfect, if your browser isn't dealing with it any better than what you say, it's your own fault for your choice of browser or for not keeping it configured better.  Most browsers work pretty well here.

-Noel

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 10, 2011 Jun 10, 2011

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>Most browsers work pretty well here.

While there are sometimes problems related to the forum software, my Internet Explorer does not cause me any problems

Another message thread even had a note from the forum Admin that the software is going to be updated... but without a date, so evidently behind the scenes work has not been completed

To the OP... as far as nntp going away... that was 2 or more years ago... so if you must have nntp, you will need to find or buy or build a forum of your own

I wanted to keep the old forum software, but it didn't happen... so to learn and help, I use what is here... not always happily, but for Adobe reading, this is what there is

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 10, 2011 Jun 10, 2011

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Thanks for the commentary. My point was not to be insulting, just to point out a better way.  NNTP may [edited by host], but it is not as [edited by host] as HTML.

<quote> Forums with people helping people are the best things the Internet has to offer, competing with overwhelming things like porn and spam.  A web browser opens the sharing of information to all users.

</quote>


I could not agree more.  That is what NNTP was like back in the days.  You just did not have the additional overhead of adding all the fancy graphics.  Also you did not have to log into a seperate forum everytime you wanted to post a comment (and give a company you password info).

As for overwhelming the board with SPAM, I lay the blame on Al Gore.  He was instrumental in getting the interwebs in the hands of the common people.  My understanding is that it was under his reign that the restriction on commercial enterprise was lifted, and hence the flood of spam. Before you had cool newsgroups like alt.spleen where people could discuss spleen all day.  Al Gore came on the scene, and it has been nothing but Viagra ever since.

Well thanks for you time.  I was just trying to guage interest in an adobe newsgoup

-Harry

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LEGEND ,
Jun 10, 2011 Jun 10, 2011

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harrytuttle777 wrote:

You just did not have the additional overhead of adding all the fancy graphics.


I have a fiber optic connection to my home and a very fast computer.  Want to guess how much I care about whether graphics get loaded?  The more the merrier!

Someone asking a question and sharing their 38 MB Photoshop file?  Takes under 20 seconds to download.  Piece of cake.

This is the way of the future, my friend.

Also you did not have to log into a seperate forum everytime you wanted to post a comment (and give a company you password info).

Once again you are exposing the inadequacy of your own choices (e.g., of browser and settings) more than any fundamental problem here.

I don't have to "log into" anything to post here.  I just open the browser, follow a favorite link to the forum, click a post to read, hit the Reply button, type a reply, and hit Post Message.  Done, and couldn't be simpler.  I logged in a long time ago, and asked the thing to remember me.  I have physical security and a single login for my computer itself, so this was/is a valid choice.

You want to play with the big boys, go out and get yourself top quality Internet access, a modern computer, and run a mainstream web browser.  Or get left behind.

-Noel

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New Here ,
Jun 11, 2011 Jun 11, 2011

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"Though this forum software is far from perfect"

You got that right bro.

Getting more fubar everyday!

              

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LEGEND ,
Jun 11, 2011 Jun 11, 2011

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Noel Carboni wrote:

harrytuttle777 wrote:

You just did not have the additional overhead of adding all the fancy graphics.


I have a fiber optic connection to my home and a very fast computer.  Want to guess how much I care about whether graphics get loaded?  The more the merrier!

Someone asking a question and sharing their 38 MB Photoshop file?  Takes under 20 seconds to download.  Piece of cake.

This is the way of the future, my friend.

...

Surely it is. But there are a lot of people all over the world who are not so lucky and for whom that beautiful future is far away. Not a few of them still connect to the internet through normal telephone lines at speeds of a few tens kb/s (I don't remeber the exact figure). I do have a fast computer, but a not so fast normal cable connection at around 10 MB/s, and I do notice the difference between the few milliseconds the previous forum pages took to load and the few seconds the present ones do. And a sizeable part of that time seems to be taken in loading images I don't need -or like.

Noel Carboni wrote:

...

Also you did not have to log into a seperate forum everytime you wanted to post a comment (and give a company you password info).

Once again you are exposing the inadequacy of your own choices (e.g., of browser and settings) more than any fundamental problem here.

I don't have to "log into" anything to post here.  I just open the browser, follow a favorite link to the forum, click a post to read, hit the Reply button, type a reply, and hit Post Message.  Done, and couldn't be simpler.  I logged in a long time ago, and asked the thing to remember me.  I have physical security and a single login for my computer itself, so this was/is a valid choice.

You want to play with the big boys, go out and get yourself top quality Internet access, a modern computer, and run a mainstream web browser.  Or get left behind.

-Noel

You are lucky again (and so am I now, fortunately, after a full year in which I had to re-login in these forums after any period of inactivity of about half an hour), and don't seem to have noticed the many posts of people complaining of login problems. Which don't seem to be related with a top quality Internet access, a modern computer, or a mainstream web browser.

Any idea of how many people depend on their old fashioned computers, old fashioned programs, and old fashioned and slow Internet connections just to earn that little extra money they need to cover their most basic expenses? Should we just dismiss them and leave them on their own when they have questions about how to do something in PageMaker, or ask how to download just the Reader installer because all that comes with the "normal" installation takes forever to download in their setups?

I am glad that you can afford all the best and newest in equipment, programs and connections, and keep them absolutely up to date. Just don't ignore or look down on that majority of users who can't.

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Mentor ,
Jun 11, 2011 Jun 11, 2011

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Claudio González wrote:

Noel Carboni wrote:

harrytuttle777 wrote:

You just did not have the additional overhead of adding all the fancy graphics.


I have a fiber optic connection to my home and a very fast computer.  Want to guess how much I care about whether graphics get loaded?  The more the merrier!

Someone asking a question and sharing their 38 MB Photoshop file?  Takes under 20 seconds to download.  Piece of cake.

This is the way of the future, my friend.

...

Surely it is. But there are a lot of people all over the world who are not so lucky and for whom that beautiful future is far away. Not a few of them still connect to the internet through normal telephone lines at speeds of a few tens kb/s (I don't remeber the exact figure). I do have a fast computer, but a not so fast normal cable connection at around 10 MB/s, and I do notice the difference between the few milliseconds the previous forum pages took to load and the few seconds the present ones do. And a sizeable part of that time seems to be taken in loading images I don't need -or like.

Noel Carboni wrote:

...

Also you did not have to log into a seperate forum everytime you wanted to post a comment (and give a company you password info).

Once again you are exposing the inadequacy of your own choices (e.g., of browser and settings) more than any fundamental problem here.

I don't have to "log into" anything to post here.  I just open the browser, follow a favorite link to the forum, click a post to read, hit the Reply button, type a reply, and hit Post Message.  Done, and couldn't be simpler.  I logged in a long time ago, and asked the thing to remember me.  I have physical security and a single login for my computer itself, so this was/is a valid choice.

You want to play with the big boys, go out and get yourself top quality Internet access, a modern computer, and run a mainstream web browser.  Or get left behind.

-Noel

You are lucky again (and so am I now, fortunately, after a full year in which I had to re-login in these forums after any period of inactivity of about half an hour), and don't seem to have noticed the many posts of people complaining of login problems. Which don't seem to be related with a top quality Internet access, a modern computer, or a mainstream web browser.

Any idea of how many people depend on their old fashioned computers, old fashioned programs, and old fashioned and slow Internet connections just to earn that little extra money they need to cover their most basic expenses? Should we just dismiss them and leave them on their own when they have questions about how to do something in PageMaker, or ask how to download just the Reader installer because all that comes with the "normal" installation takes forever to download in their setups?

I am glad that you can afford all the best and newest in equipment, programs and connections, and keep them absolutely up to date. Just don't ignore or look down on that majority of users who can't.

Yes I have top of the line Computer just purchased in Feb.  I have 9 different browsers available. SeaMonkey, Firefox 3.6, FireFox 4.1, Camino, Opera, iCab, Chrome, OminWeb and Safari.

Adobe forums work exactly the same  on one as the other. All are periodically  updated and kept up to date.  So Browser used is not the issue and computer used is not the problem.  The Forum is just as Cruddy on all as one. It’s the system at adobe's end. They have cruddy software that should never have been purchased. And they don't have enough servers to  provide for the traffic. And odds are they wimped out on the network system used. Should be on the Strongest FOIS money can buy.

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Mentor ,
Jun 11, 2011 Jun 11, 2011

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Noel Carboni wrote:

harrytuttle777 wrote:

You just did not have the additional overhead of adding all the fancy graphics.


I have a fiber optic connection to my home and a very fast computer.  Want to guess how much I care about whether graphics get loaded?  The more the merrier!

Someone asking a question and sharing their 38 MB Photoshop file?  Takes under 20 seconds to download.  Piece of cake.

This is the way of the future, my friend.

Also you did not have to log into a seperate forum everytime you wanted to post a comment (and give a company you password info).

You want to play with the big boys, go out and get yourself top quality Internet access, a modern computer, and run a mainstream web browser.  Or get left behind.

-Noel

That's Nice you have FOIS. But my community in Va doesn't have FOIS. Believe it or not I have a FOIS Line that runs beside the main road 50 feet from Our house. In fact it runs from NC to Richmond and beyond. But The city and County I live in are not allowed to even touch it. We have DSL (which I have), Slow Cable, and POTS.

Last year the was 10 million dollar initiative to wire southwest/South Central Virginia with FOIS since it was the only part of the state that didn't have it.  It was Cut out of Budget by the Republican administration at the state level of Virginia.If we had a Democratic Majority. Every community in Va would have access to FOIS.

So we have to make do with what we are allowed to have.

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LEGEND ,
Jun 11, 2011 Jun 11, 2011

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We don't need to return to the golden times of yesteryear's internet, you need to update your technology to where the money is.  Clearly not everyone has the ability to do so yet, but any realist knows that no new development money is likely to be spent to cater to folks who have inadequate internet access.  The phrase "it is the way of the future" rules all in this arena.  Teenagers are walking around with phones that have better internet access than what's being described above.

Have you sent a letter to your local communications companies asking for fiber/better Internet service?  Why not?

And let's get real here...  Your system, with any reasonable browser, has local caching to keep you from having to wait for the download of the same graphics over and over.  The time of crying over a few hundred kbytes for still images has come and gone!  We're already well into the age of HD video, my friends.

In short:  Get used to your web experience being more and more rich with multimedia.  It's not going to become less so.

Oh, and if interacting with the minor quirks of this forum is the most frustrating thing you have to contend with in your online life, then it you live a charmed life indeed!

-Noel

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LEGEND ,
Jun 11, 2011 Jun 11, 2011

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A site powered by a two year old software that has still not been updated, collapsing at any serious spam attack, and periodically experiencing slowdowns and breakdowns, is hardly what I would call an example of cutting edge technology. None of these things are attributable to the lack of ability of common users to access it usin optical fibre technology, which is not available in my country. Abnd there are many other sites, as complex and as frequently visited as these, that work quite a lot more efficiently.

Let us please keep things in perspective. Having the economical capacity to always pay for all the newest and most modern in technology is not the norm, but a privilege. Do enjoy it if you have it, but don't look down on those who don't have it.

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LEGEND ,
Jun 11, 2011 Jun 11, 2011

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Claudio González wrote:

hardly what I would call an example of cutting edge technology.

Nor I, but what's being proposed in this thread is that these "new fangled graphics-rich forums" are excessive, and I just think that's a ridiculous perspective.

From the OP's point of view, this forum is flush with "<expletive> HTML".  I'm just pointing out that anyone who thinks web-browser-based forums are wasteful new technology is a bit behind the times (to put it mildly).

optical fibre technology, which is not available in my country

Hm, and I thought the US was quite far behind in this area.  I wish you all the best in gaining the capability to move up to modern connectivity.

-Noel

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LEGEND ,
Jun 11, 2011 Jun 11, 2011

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Noel, my point is that these forums are worse, not better, after the last major change of over two years ago -no working search engine since then is one of many examples. This has nothing to do with optical fibre. I'm just comparing the functionality of these forums with that of others I frequent. And the speed of this version with that of the previous one.

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LEGEND ,
Jun 11, 2011 Jun 11, 2011

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Claudio González wrote:

Noel, my point is that these forums are worse, not better...  yada yada

On the one hand I applaud your tenacity, but I wonder whether every thread has to turn into a "what's wrong with these Jive-based forums".  The high complaint level simply doesn't match the small magnitude of the problem.

-Noel

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Mentor ,
Jun 11, 2011 Jun 11, 2011

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We are, Japan and China and Tiwain Beat the socks off of us. Even some of the middle east is better than us as far as Internet go.

But that doesn't mean other countries are not behind us. Many countries have lower standard of living than us. And mine and yours is less than other countries. Because of relaxed rules on Bank and financial institutions and big business corporate greed nearly plunged us a 20's era Depression. and because of that we are Now a Country of Hamberuger Flippers  No manufacturing jobs to speak of. as a Result fewer people are able to pay taxes because they don't have jobs and no prospects.  With fewer tax dollars There is less money for nicities such as high speed Internet. Had we not gone through what we did. who knows every home in the US might have free Fiber Optic Acces. Realities are, Your ability to have such access depends upon the State/Commonwealth you live in Southeastern States not so much.  Central and north central states not so much. Texas and toward California yes. The west coast yes. (Most of the Tech Companies are based there.)

In the Va The Golden Tri-angle area Richmond, Va Beach, DC have acess. Rest of the state is out of luck. All because of Politics.

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LEGEND ,
Jun 11, 2011 Jun 11, 2011

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Phillip, please "no me ayude compadre", don't help me, mate.

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Mentor ,
Jun 11, 2011 Jun 11, 2011

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LATEST

Who says I was helping you I am expressing my on opinion.

We can't change Joel. He is determined to shove something down I our throats its impossible for us to have.

IF he has deep pockets You could contract with someone to put a FOIS Connection in every house in the US that doesn't have it.

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Mentor ,
Jun 11, 2011 Jun 11, 2011

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Noel Carboni wrote:

We don't need to return to the golden times of yesteryear's internet, you need to update your technology to where the money is.  Clearly not everyone has the ability to do so yet, but any realist knows that no new development money is likely to be spent to cater to folks who have inadequate internet access.  The phrase "it is the way of the future" rules all in this arena.  Teenagers are walking around with phones that have better internet access than what's being described above.

Have you sent a letter to your local communications companies asking for fiber/better Internet service?  Why not?

Yes, each have said not available in our area.

And let's get real here...  Your system, with any reasonable browser, has local caching to keep you from having to wait for the download of the same graphics over and over.  The time of crying over a few hundred kbytes for still images has come and gone!  We're already well into the age of HD video, my friends.

Yes I have ample caching set.

In short:  Get used to your web experience being more and more rich with multimedia.  It's not going to become less so.

Oh, and if interacting with the minor quirks of this forum is the most frustrating thing you have to contend with in your online life, then it you live a charmed life indeed!

Don't consider them minor when you have to put sentences back together. Almost no formatting is allowed. when other Forums as small as PHPbb allow with no problems. No I have other problems irritate me. For instance the tornado that passed by my house last night and broke two trees next to the house. And two trees were uprooted in April by another Big wind.

-Noel

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Mentor ,
Jun 11, 2011 Jun 11, 2011

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Sure if you want to start such.  go for it

I would be willing to go to it.

albasani.net would be a good plce to create your groups. Go To http://www.albasani.net and talk to the owner about what you want to do.  then you would have to announce someway when they are open. I'm sure it wouldn't be any trouble to get experts to get on it.

Every html forum I am one has something to make it a PITA.  The only ones that don't have problems are ones run PHPbb I've never seen any of those with issues.

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LEGEND ,
Jun 10, 2011 Jun 10, 2011

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Harry, I took a look at messages from two years ago in the forum in Spanish. All posts by users of the NNTP version (ex-Macromedia forum) now appear simply as posted by Newsgroup_User, but they use their names to address each other in their messages. I recognize two or three who registered under almost exact names in the present forums and are still active, but if any of the others registered as well, which I doubt, they used very different screen names. So my guess is that, in spite of the dozens and dozens of messages of protest posted before the change, and the many promises to join again in their own newsgroup, that new newsgroup was never created. My guess and my doubts are based on the fact that those persons were a very active and very numerous group, while the present forum in Spanish is almost as dead as the PageMaker forum.

I imagine the same thing happened in the forums in English.

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