5 Thumbs up for migrating to clearspace Forum

Advocate ,
Nov 01, 2009

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Hi Guys,

I want to thank you for migrating to this new forum, I have worked on clearspace for a while and It is indeed a very robust  collaboration/social networking  framework,with very nice forum feature,

maybe you can enabled blogs for users  in the future .?

anyways I have two thumbs but giving this move a  5 thumbs up.

Regards

Levan

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5 Thumbs up for migrating to clearspace Forum

Advocate ,
Nov 01, 2009

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Hi Guys,

I want to thank you for migrating to this new forum, I have worked on clearspace for a while and It is indeed a very robust  collaboration/social networking  framework,with very nice forum feature,

maybe you can enabled blogs for users  in the future .?

anyways I have two thumbs but giving this move a  5 thumbs up.

Regards

Levan

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Guru ,
Nov 01, 2009

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Who sacrificed for you to obtain the other 3 thumbs?

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Nov 01, 2009

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levancho wrote:

Hi Guys,

I want to thank you for migrating to this new forum, I have worked on clearspace for a while and It is indeed a very robust  collaboration/social networking  framework,with very nice forum feature,

maybe you can enabled blogs for users  in the future .?

anyways I have two thumbs but giving this move a  5 thumbs up.

Regards

Levan

Just because you type the words, it doesn't make it true.

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Guru ,
Nov 01, 2009

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The statement is part of the internet now so it has to be true.

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Mentor ,
Nov 01, 2009

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[personal attack removed]

Message was edited by: Jochem van Dieten

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Explorer ,
Nov 01, 2009

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[personal attack removed]

Message was edited by: Jochem van Dieten

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Nov 01, 2009

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Ann Shelbourne wrote:


[personal attack removed]

looool anna, you don understand that clearspace is not a company? But a product, I worked with clearspace means I have implemented it on several projects and have worked with its source, looool I don't work for jive, so please save your anger sore something else, or at least read the post completely befor bashing out

Message was edited by: Jochem van Dieten

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Guru ,
Nov 01, 2009

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No, your origional post said you worked "ON" clearspace and didn't say "WITH". Working on and working with are totally different concepts. That is why you received the lashout.

levancho wrote:

Ann Shelbourne wrote:


[personal attack removed]

looool anna, you don understand that clearspace is not a company? But a product, I worked with clearspace means I have implemented it on several projects and have worked with its source, looool I don't work for jive, so please save your anger sore something else, or at least read the post completely befor bashing out

Message was edited by: Jochem van Dieten

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Nov 01, 2009

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dec9 wrote:

No, your origional post said you worked "ON" clearspace and didn't say "WITH". Working on and working with are totally different concepts. That is why you received the lashout.

levancho wrote:

Ann Shelbourne wrote:


[personal attack removed]

looool anna, you don understand that clearspace is not a company? But a product, I worked with clearspace means I have implemented it on several projects and have worked with its source, looool I don't work for jive, so please save your anger sore something else, or at least read the post completely befor bashing out





Message was edited by: Jochem van Dieten


  its all good guys [my rude reply removed]

I am not saying clearspace is the best,its just better than one I have seen before.

P.S:  thruth to be told and ..  its actually is a shame that the very best forum Software in the market currently is written in php

actually two of them

IPB and vbulletin

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Nov 01, 2009

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I have to agree that clearspace is a memory hog and does require serious clastering architecture to be cosidere production quality, but hey why are getting angry at me, I just did acomparison , don't you remember half baked some fusion software that was before this forum? If you can't compare features than maybe spend little more time on it? Agan, I don't kniw what kindd of past discussions you had on this subject, but it does not take a highly intelligent pwrson to realize tha difference in features, on other hand I might not be as intelligent as you so please excuse my incompetence in this subject, compare to you

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Nov 01, 2009

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levancho wrote on 11/1/2009 8:01 PM:

I have to agree that clearspace is a memory hog and does require serious clastering architecture to be cosidere production quality

I do not think any version of Jive ClearSpace is mature enough to be

considered production quality.

Their backend looks nice enough, it follows all the right patterns to be

able to work well, and I think they designed it quite nicely to scale

very well. But essentially all they did there was string together proven

technologies from others. Spring, FreeMarker, Tomcat, Struts, Lucene,

Coherence, PostgreSQL etc. are all proven, production quality technologies.

The first problem lies in what they built on top of that. The user

interface is a pile of crap. It is totally dependent on javascript which

makes it terribly slow. There are considerable errors in the design of

the HTTP layer so the hit ratio on the browser cache is a joke. About

the only thing I like about their design is their choice of scalability

over single thread performance, e.g. the way they don't keep a server

side history but do that in cookies. And I am not even going to go into

the issues with the webservices and email integration, because that

alone is enough for a week of discussions.

The second problem is Jive as a company. From my experience with them I

would say they are immature and have grown to fast.

Their support is a joke, I have to explain to them how they set up these

forums. Not oncce, but three times. Even issues that are under a 1-hour

SLA take weeks before they acknowlege there is a bug. On issues they

don't follow the instructions to reproduce and then claim there is no

issue. Not to mention the times where they respond "we knew that bug

existed, we just didn't tell you". And that is not just support, their

development team also closes feature requests while implementing

something completely different then asked.

I can not detect any commitment to the quality of their products with

them. The only bugs in their product they actually fix in a reasonable

time are the ones where I threaten to publish exploits for their

security holes. Nor any commitment to work with people to sort out these

issues. (I have had an email conversations with their lead developer

where he claimed he was happy with their quality, I showed him how on a

project 86% of the invoked webservices malfunctioned and the other 14%

had incorret documentation, and suddenly he doesn't answer email anymore.)

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Nov 01, 2009

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well, to be completely fair, backend, specifically data access layer is not very  *nice* .

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Nov 01, 2009

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levancho wrote on 11/1/2009 11:05 PM:

well, to be completely fair, backend, specifically data access layer is not very nice .

I was a bit surprised when I read you had to write SQL to access a

database ...

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Nov 01, 2009

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jochemd wrote:

levancho wrote on 11/1/2009 11:05 PM:

well, to be completely fair, backend, specifically data access layer is not very  nice .

I was a bit surprised when I read you had to write SQL to access a

database ...


if you had looked into the source code of clearspace you would "exactly"  know what I am talking about, but since you have not, I cant really explain that any better than this.

Regards

L

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Nov 01, 2009

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levancho wrote on 11/1/2009 11:42 PM:

if you had looked into the source code of clearspace you would "exactly" know what I am talking about, but since you have not, I cant really explain that any better than this.

They won't give me access so all I know about the CS sourcecode is from

two students I had when I was doing LiveCycle and Flex training in

India. They had both worked for one of Jive's integration partners. We

shared horror stories

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Nov 01, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Nov 01, 2009

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Well if we didn't know it before, we know it now.


These forums are a disaster.


And it would appear the situation is beyond recovery.


What a surprise!


Rearrange the following into a common sentence: told – so – you – we!

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Mentor ,
Nov 01, 2009

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Bless you!

While I may not like some of your decisions so far as the actual run of this particular forum. And You have seemed to mellowed somewhat.

At least I can agree with your perception of the ClearSpace/Jive setup. Now if you could place this assessment personally on the Desk of the President, CEO, and Board members with documentation of the complaints from all venues including FaceBook, Maybe we could get someone to come down hard on Jive give them 30 day to clean up their act. I've seen some phpBB forums that run better than this one. I am not speaking to the ability phpBB being able to work with a Forums this large. Just they appear to work better.

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Advocate ,
Nov 01, 2009

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I am not speaking to the ability phpBB being able to work with a Forums this large. Just they appear to work better.

actually phpBB is very scalable, I have forum running on it ith some topics topping 800+ replies, and it works like a charm.

but again I have no comment regarding clearspace speed , its not fast,

but features: it does have all features that forum software needs.

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Nov 01, 2009

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They had both worked for one of Jive's integration partners.

company I worked for used to be one of those Jivesoftware  Integration partners, and they did have ofshore resources in india hmmm.

anyways, my take on this is that if you build clearspace from source everything is in your hands and its not that bad as it sounds.

altough I dont understand why adobe choose clearspace and not straight jiveForum solution,

jiveForum seems to be more better fit, since they have disabled half of the features that are part of clearspace in  here.

milliond $ Question: which other alternative you would have choosen?

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Nov 01, 2009

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ok, lets open up some, can of worms,

try visiting this page http://forums.adobe.com/community/ (10 times )

it should always be slower than any other page,

that is directly related to how clearspace treats communities, and how code that runs behind works,

clearspace is a cache ( not money)  machine, if it does not have anough cache to store all those community objects, it will flush it out and reload them on every request, so unless cache is highly optimized from admin section, this forum will always have performance issues

same goes for forum threads, discussions, replies, user counts and other  frequently accessible items,each have  seperate cache setting that has to be checked, and optimized, and overall server has to have huge cache settings to accomodate fast response, also java heap size haeve to be big anough otherwiss some friendly out of memory errors will start poping up. again, clearspace is build on asumption that there is big cache avaiable, and if (I hope it is) clustering is enabled via coherence than it has to be configured with cache sizes being quite large, and it will scale in paralel and *should *cough* in theory *cough*  deliver stagering performance boost if configured correctly..

if this forum is deployed without coherence cache clustering than forget about scalability or performance , it will degrade even more.

.

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Guru ,
Nov 01, 2009

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Smoke signals.

However, if Jive has the update (like 4.0 or something) and this update will fix some of the issues then just go for it and apply the update. Ya, I know it isn't that simple but my gosh just try for pete's sake.

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Guru ,
Nov 01, 2009

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So your premise is that the cache is not optomized correctly thus causing issues.

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Nov 01, 2009

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dec9 wrote:

So your premise is that the cache is not optomized correctly thus causing issues.

not 100% on this, but looks like it.

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Nov 01, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Nov 01, 2009

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Did you ever check how many forums and sub-forums there are and how many messages per thread there can be?


These are not all your typical Q&A type threads.


Apart from picking the wrong software, adobe's mistake is trying to encompass too wide a ground centred on one base.


However, natural selection means that people are drifting away from the forums and eventually the situation will stabilise with smooth-running but virtually useless forums.

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Nov 02, 2009

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I do not think any version of Jive ClearSpace is mature enough to be

considered production quality.

Their backend looks nice enough, it follows all the right patterns to be

able to work well, and I think they designed it quite nicely to scale

very well. But essentially all they did there was string together proven

technologies from others. Spring, FreeMarker, Tomcat, Struts, Lucene,

Coherence, PostgreSQL etc. are all proven, production quality technologies.

The first problem lies in what they built on top of that. The user

interface is a pile of crap. It is totally dependent on javascript which

makes it terribly slow. There are considerable errors in the design of

the HTTP layer so the hit ratio on the browser cache is a joke. About

the only thing I like about their design is their choice of scalability

over single thread performance, e.g. the way they don't keep a server

side history but do that in cookies. And I am not even going to go into

the issues with the webservices and email integration, because that

alone is enough for a week of discussions.

The second problem is Jive as a company. From my experience with them I

would say they are immature and have grown to fast.

Their support is a joke, I have to explain to them how they set up these

forums. Not oncce, but three times. Even issues that are under a 1-hour

SLA take weeks before they acknowlege there is a bug. On issues they

don't follow the instructions to reproduce and then claim there is no

issue. Not to mention the times where they respond "we knew that bug

existed, we just didn't tell you". And that is not just support, their

development team also closes feature requests while implementing

something completely different then asked.

I can not detect any commitment to the quality of their products with

them. The only bugs in their product they actually fix in a reasonable

time are the ones where I threaten to publish exploits for their

security holes. Nor any commitment to work with people to sort out these

issues. (I have had an email conversations with their lead developer

where he claimed he was happy with their quality, I showed him how on a

project 86% of the invoked webservices malfunctioned and the other 14%

had incorret documentation, and suddenly he doesn't answer email anymore.)

Great stuff!

(Who would've thought you were so much in agreement with us! )

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Nov 02, 2009 0
Enthusiast ,
Nov 01, 2009

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Buko. wrote:

[personal attack removed]

but apart from all that, it's great.

Message was edited by: Jochem van Dieten

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Nov 01, 2009

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I am surprised to see that no one has noticed you have been kidding all the time...

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Mentor ,
Nov 01, 2009

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If it a sense of humor, it sure a very poor one.  I  mean if he can even get JVD to write desertation on how sorry the Jive/Clearspace Software is. Doesn't strike me as being funny. IF he try comedy he needs to go to The Red Skelton/Jack Gleason school of comedy. Or be Jay leno's under study to learn what humor is. This Forum Software is nothing to joke about. It too bad to ven be funny.

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Mentor ,
Nov 02, 2009

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[edited] for questions about moderation, start a new thread

Message was edited by: Jochem van Dieten

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Nov 02, 2009 0
Mentor ,
Nov 02, 2009

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[edited] for questions about moderation, start a new thread

Message was edited by: Jochem van Dieten

This place is a joke

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Nov 02, 2009 0