A Death of the Family

Explorer ,
Nov 06, 2009 Nov 06, 2009

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Once upon a Time the Adobe Photoshop Forum was a community.  A lot like a family.  There were members who participated daily for a decade or more. Friends. Friends who are now gone, thanks to Jive ware.

A great many of us met one another face-to-face.  Even more have talked on the phone.  We celebrated births of children, new houses, new jobs.  We commiserated over lost jobs, broken marriages, deaths.  We kept up with one another's birthdays.  We had a round robin Christmas card exchange.  Our community, though online, was a real community with daily exchanges, dear friends, like family.  Now gone.  Like a death of the family.

We shared vibrant, energized discussions of how to improve one’s skills using Photoshop.  What one person does not know, another does.  Or did.  The knowledge shared on the Photoshop forum of this day is dismal in comparison.

I personally have owned Dreamweaver about as long as I have owned Photoshop, 11 years or so.  In the beginning I tried visiting the Dreamweaver (Macromedia) forums.  They were cold, devoid of friendship, and uninviting.  No reason to go back there.  I'm not surprised a spirit of community never developed there.  I learned how to use Dreamweaver via the Adobe Photoshop forum.

Now, we old-timers, faithful Adobe customers, are being told that we should put on a happy face and learn to love Jive ware.  We are being told our discontent is the only problem. That this is the only forum that HAS a problem. This forum,  Forum Comments,  where complaints / suggestions on how to improve things  are supposed to be lodged.

We know better.  Jive ware sucks.  It has killed our community and we are supposed to learn to love it.

Also, we are being told there were numerous complaints voiced about recently banned members.

Funny thing about that.  Where are all those numerous complaints?  Perhaps that means there is another forum where these complaints were lodged?  One we, Adobe's customers are not allowed access to?  Or perhaps these complainers managed to e-mail Adobe employees?  Those same employees whose e-mail addresses are not available?

Somehow that does not have a ring of truth.

Or perhaps all these numerous complaints were lodged by one moderator?  That might make sense, if any of this makes sense.

We are told we should ask members why they were banned.  Of course since they are banned, that won't be easy will it?  That is, of course, assuming they have been told.

I must admit that while I am sorely disappointed, I am not surprised with the way Adobe has in the past and now continues to handle one member's complaints about another.

The Adobe way is to take one for a member's complaint about another and ban the accused, without so much as making the effort to contact the accused to find out their side of things.  No matter how serious the charges or how serious the repercussions to the person who has been banned.  No matter if there is not a single word of truth in the accusations.

That sucks even more than Jive ware.

Clearly our former community is of no importance to Adobe. Sorry, I cannot put on a Happy Face.

Paz

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Most Valuable Participant ,
Nov 06, 2009 Nov 06, 2009

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As of this time, I see three reported replies that are nowhere in sight... I wonder if this one will stay.

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Explorer ,
Nov 06, 2009 Nov 06, 2009

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Looks to be a trend. Hmmm. I think we may be heavily censored. They better figure out how to get rid of the response count so they won't look so silly.

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Most Valuable Participant ,
Nov 06, 2009 Nov 06, 2009

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The count does eventually get sorted out, but it takes some time. This is not precisely a fast software... And no, it's not censorship. It's just keeping the place clean.

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Enthusiast ,
Nov 06, 2009 Nov 06, 2009

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As of now... it's showing six replies when there are three... mine will make it the fourth

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Most Valuable Participant ,
Nov 07, 2009 Nov 07, 2009

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Still the same three messages missing. Could it just have been LT laughing on everybody's face?

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Mentor ,
Nov 07, 2009 Nov 07, 2009

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Who is MonteCristo640??

That is who's post are being deep-sixed. and I show 11 post  that have been deleted, from him just this morning.

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Contributor ,
Nov 07, 2009 Nov 07, 2009

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PjonesCET wrote:

Who is MonteCristo640??

That is who's post are being deep-sixed. and I show 11 post  that have been deleted, from him just this morning.

I believe that would be LT.

I have asked the banned members what they were told about being banned and it's the basic line of <please note that I am only paraphrasing here> "we want to run a nice forum without personal attacks etc".  They were not told what they said or did that caused the banning in the first place.

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New Here ,
Nov 07, 2009 Nov 07, 2009

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I have asked the banned members what they were told about being banned and it's the basic line of <please note that I am only paraphrasing here> "we want to run a nice forum without personal attacks etc".  They were not told what they said or did that caused the banning in the first place.

That is correct: the notice that "Fr. Watson" (who has not been mentioned thus far, but is also amongst those banned") recieved read:

Hello Fr. Watson.

Your Adobe Forums account has been suspended for violating our adobe.com Terms of Use and Adobe Community Guidelines.

We are seeking to foster a positive environment where individuals respect each other. Criticism is welcomed when framed in a constructive manner.

Let us know if you have questions.

Regards,

The Adobe Community Team


Fr. Watson did not receive any sort of advance warning, nor did he recieve any notice that (according to posts in the 'Why are you banning all these people?" thread) there were complaints from other forum users. The message quoted verbatim above does not reference any specific post that was felt to violate the Terms of Use, nor was there any mention of complaints from other users.

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Advocate ,
Nov 07, 2009 Nov 07, 2009

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Kami Bambiraptor wrote:

Fr. Watson did not receive any sort of advance warning

I don't know how Adobe ended up with the list they did, but perhaps banning just one identity of an individual is the warning.

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Contributor ,
Nov 07, 2009 Nov 07, 2009

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So then perhaps they can explain those others like John Joslin etc?  Banning with a copy/paste of the terms of use is lame, at best.

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Advocate ,
Nov 07, 2009 Nov 07, 2009

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Don't hold your breath. Even if they wanted to, it would take at least as long to get permission from Adobe Legal to discuss the actions of individuals in public as it did to get permission for the abuse escalation procedure in place. And I think I saw the first signs of them working on that in May.

On second though, the answer from Adobe Legal would probably be very fast: "No".

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Enthusiast ,
Nov 11, 2009 Nov 11, 2009

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They've dumped John Joslin???  Jesus wept.

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Enthusiast ,
Nov 11, 2009 Nov 11, 2009

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Michael D Sullivan wrote:

They've dumped John Joslin???  Jesus wept.

Quite...

They had... apparently it was a temporary ban. He's back and post in the PS forums (at least that's where i've seen him); i don't think he's posting here any longer... but could be wrong.

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Explorer ,
Nov 12, 2009 Nov 12, 2009

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Philip said:

“If this site was Public held (say Government run. Then everything you say would be  true.

Problem Is .... This is held by a privately held company. and everything such as free speech is out the door. Its only free to the extent the company allow.”


I’m not talking about lawyers.  I’m talking about ethics.

There is such a thing as Universal Truth that people instinctively relate to and understand.

Truth is, setting up a system where people are banished, judged by a secret group, based on anonymous reports, is abhorrent.

Why should  Adobe’s Customers want to support a company that does this?

Especially considering -- the group of people who have been banished from here -- are the very ones who were here, trying to improve these forums,  because they have loved the Adobe Forums so much.

It’s a sad thing.  They are here no more.

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Mentor ,
Nov 12, 2009 Nov 12, 2009

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Will someone explain why JJ and others are banned on a whim if but for a short time but this MonteCresto Fellow post anywhere he wants. Anytime he wants, what he wants. You'd think adobe would have enough smarts to trace abck where is originates his post from and simply ban is provider. Then explain to the provider why. If he shwo up again repeat until its known anyone better not give him an account.

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Mentor ,
Nov 12, 2009 Nov 12, 2009

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To me the person seems like they need to be on serious medication for Manic depression. I any event I feel sorry whomever "Monte" is and take pity on him/her.

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Participant ,
Nov 12, 2009 Nov 12, 2009

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Please stop bumping this. My gmail begs for 0 unread count.

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Advocate ,
Nov 12, 2009 Nov 12, 2009

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Then unsubscribe from this thread.

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Participant ,
Nov 12, 2009 Nov 12, 2009

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I didn't know you could unsubscribe from individual threads. Nice. And

you guys are always saying how much Jive sucks..

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Advocate ,
Nov 12, 2009 Nov 12, 2009

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It does suck, in any other forum you would have to physically subscribe to a thread yourself...only here is it that you are automatically subscribed straight off the bat, and there are two places in your preferences to turn the subscriptions off.

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Mentor ,
Nov 07, 2009 Nov 07, 2009

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I suppose they are  basing the bans on the actual number of abuse reports than actually looking at the supposed item that is subject of the abuse and seeing if it was legit or not.

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Contributor ,
Nov 07, 2009 Nov 07, 2009

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I have a question:  if emails are sent out to tell an individual that a post of theirs was submitted for abuse, but deemed not to be abusive, is there also an email sent out if a post is reported for abuse and *is* deemed to be abusive?  I would think it should work both ways.

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Advocate ,
Nov 07, 2009 Nov 07, 2009

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greenjumpyone wrote on 11/7/2009 11:14 PM:

I have a question: if emails are sent out to tell an individual that a post of theirs was submitted for abuse, but deemed not to be abusive, is there also an email sent out if a post is reported for abuse and is deemed to be abusive?

Post in the test forum and we can try.

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Contributor ,
Nov 07, 2009 Nov 07, 2009

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jochemd wrote:

greenjumpyone wrote on 11/7/2009 11:14 PM:

I have a question:  if emails are sent out to tell an individual that a post of theirs was submitted for abuse, but deemed not to be abusive, is there also an email sent out if a post is reported for abuse and is deemed to be abusive?

Post in the test forum and we can try.

and what will that prove?  You could report the post as abusive, but it won't really be abusive and will be deemed as being okay by the tribunal.  Unless of course you *do* make decisions on whether a post is considered abusive?

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