A new improvement

[#1]

I can no longer change the font in my messages from the almost illegible tiny bad copy of Helvetica that someone chose for these forums, to one of the fonts that have been specially designed for screen reading like Verdana. I can make and see the change on screen, but text reverts to Arial on posting.

Safari/Mac; Explorer and Safari on Windows 7.

[#2]

I can no longer change the font in my messages from the almost illegible tiny bad copy of Helvetica that someone chose for these forums, to one of the fonts that have been specially designed for screen reading like Verdana. I can make and see the change on screen, but text reverts to Arial on posting.

Safari/Mac; Explorer and Safari on Windows 7.

[#3]

Claudio González wrote on 8/31/2010 8:57 PM:

I can no longer change the font in my messages from the almost illegible tiny bad copy of Helvetica that someone chose for these forums, to one of the fonts that have been specially designed for screen reading like Verdana.

That is a consequence of closing a number of loopholes that allowed

spammers to inject invisible links in messages.

But IMHO this is a very positive side effect. Font control now lies with

the reader of these forums who can use the techniques described in the

FAQ to control how text should be rendered. This allows people to choose

a font that matches the way they read these forums depending on device

(laptop or mobile phone), application (browser or client) etc.

[#4]

Thanks, it's good to know that at least it wasn't deliberate.

[#5]

save this as a CSS and put in yourBrowser Preference Folder:

#jive-wrapper {

width:100% !important;

background-color: #ffffff !important;

background-image: none !important;

}

@namespace url(http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml);

@-moz-document domain("forums.adobe.com") {
  body {
    font-family: Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif !important;
  }
}

In FF and SM  name as userContent.css and put in chrome folder

This has no affect on what gets sent. Just what you see on screen.

And btw the user should be able to set permanently what font style and size he wants to send permanently, if he she so wishes.

Message was edited by: Phillip Jones    addition to comment

[#6]

I made some quick tests here

http://forums.adobe.com/message/3098936#3098936

and it would seem that the following formatting features are also gone:

Underline. Change text color or size. Indenting. Right and center alignment.

[#7]

I also went to test and as a result of their mucking

around they have broken color, strike through, and underline. Why can't when they fix lopholes or bugs can they not break other items. Despite Jockems spin on the matter the truth is they broke a lot items.  If there is no way to add items such as color, stike through, underline what the point in using html. we are just as well off to use plain text. I'd be supprised if even camera or the other items work.

Great work Jive and Adobe

[#8]

Phillip,

Please try to get your facts straight. They specifically tuned off these features because spammers were using them to insert invisible links. It's not th best solution, but probably unavoidable under the circumstances.

There's a big difference between disabling something and breaking it! The ones who "broke things" were the spammers...

Harbs

[#9]

Harbs. wrote:

Phillip,

Please try to get your facts straight. They specifically tuned off these features because spammers were using them to insert invisible links. It's not th best solution, but probably unavoidable under the circumstances.

There's a big difference between disabling something and breaking it! The ones who "broke things" were the spammers...

Harbs

The fix for that is remove the ability to add anything invisible not <b>break Features </b>

If they'd use a Different system other Than Jive they wouldn't have these problems

Even PHPbb doesn't have these Problems.

[#10]

PjonesCET wrote:

The fix for that is remove the ability to add anything invisible not <b>break Features </b>

You listed 3 features that were 'broken': color, strike through, and underline. Of those, removing the ability to change the font color so that you can use a font color that is the same as the background color is deliberate. It is also quite common to hide links by linking a few words to another page, and then underlining the whole sentence in which these words occur. That strike through doesn't work requires some knowledge of HTML is indeed an undesirable side effect.

The question is really what is more important to people. We knew stuff would break as a consequence of this change. We didn't know whether people really cared enough about the broken features to prefer to have the more spam as a consequence. Depending on what people say the configuration may change in the future to get some or all of those broken features back.

My personal opinion on what is more important is based on the following observations:

1. it took almost 2 weeks before somebody even noticed some stuff didn't work anymore.
2. that spammer that posted hundreds of messages from different accounts with a firstname.lastname pattern with hidden links in the quoted text stopped the moment the change was made.
   

[#11]

Jochem van Dieten wrote:

PjonesCET wrote:

The fix for that is remove the ability to add anything invisible not <b>break Features </b>

You listed 3 features that were 'broken': color, strike through, and underline. Of those, removing the ability to change the font color so that you can use a font color that is the same as the background color is deliberate. It is also quite common to hide links by linking a few words to another page, and then underlining the whole sentence in which these words occur. That strike through doesn't work requires some knowledge of HTML is indeed an undesirable side effect.

The question is really what is more important to people. We knew stuff would break as a consequence of this change. We didn't know whether people really cared enough about the broken features to prefer to have the more spam as a consequence. Depending on what people say the configuration may change in the future to get some or all of those broken features back.

My personal opinion on what is more important is based on the following observations:

1. it took almost 2 weeks before somebody even noticed some stuff didn't work anymore.
2. that spammer that posted hundreds of messages from different accounts with a firstname.lastname pattern with hidden links in the quoted text stopped the moment the change was made.
   

I and Claudio and others don't use use such for emphasis or Corrections on a Day to day Basis. The reason the items were not caught.

Fine, kill the color if necessary. But the Other items should work. There is no excuse for breaking other items unintended, just to kill color. the lack of color.

You could have done the same thing by simply  removing the Color Button all together. and removed the ability to add color manually, instead of using a meat axe approach.

Its soon going to get to the point where we will have to go back to an authenticated, secure NNTP news Server. (we might be better off). Or get  away from Jive.

[#12]

Phillip Jones wrote on 9/1/2010 4:22 PM:

You could have done the same thing by simply removing the Color Button all together. and removed the ability to add color manually, instead of using a meat axe approach.

I didn't know we could have done that. If you could please take a quick

look at http://www.jivesoftware.com/jivespace/docs/DOC-1640 and then

explain to us which values we have to enter in the available fields I am

sure Adobe will gladly update the configuration.

But just in case your gratuitous statement turns out to be unfounded:

given the choice, do you want the spam or the features?

[#13]

Jochem van Dieten wrote:

I didn't know we could have done that. If you could please take a quick

look at http://www.jivesoftware.com/jivespace/docs/DOC-1640 and then

explain to us which values we have to enter in the available fields I am

sure Adobe will gladly update the configuration.

But just in case your gratuitous statement turns out to be unfounded:

given the choice, do you want the spam or the features?

LOL. Best...answer...EVER.

Go for it Phil.

[#14]

I went to the site but you have to have a business. I would have taken JVD up on it otherwise.Had it been open to anyone, I would have jumped at the chance in a heartbeat. I would brought some other issues about us having use software that hadn't bee updated in about a year. About being serveral versions behind. One version which would have fixed the problem of misterous line breaks.  And the matter of having to a CSS Hack in your Browser to use the full space of your Browser instead of having all that wasted space.

If I had a list of all the greviences I would have listed them All.

JVD may think is gratuitous, I don't. And he seems to make light of people who care about this forum but have less knowledge than he.

Its not a choice between either or. You could work on getting rid of the spam and fix the problems, too.

[#15]

Phillip Jones wrote on 9/1/2010 7:56 PM:

I went to the site but you have to have a business. I would have taken JVD up on it otherwise.

To create an account as a private individual, enter the following

information in the "Company info" fieldset:

Your Title: -

Company Name: private

Company Size: 1-99

Industry: other

I look forward to your recommendations on the proper configuration of

these forums so we may better combat spam while keeping all the useful

features enabled.

[#16]

Jochem van Dieten wrote:

I look forward to your recommendations on the proper configuration of

these forums so we may better combat spam while keeping all the useful

features enabled.

Me too!

[#17]

Jochem van Dieten wrote:

... removing the ability to change the font color so that you can use a font color that is the same as the background color is deliberate.

I don't know - perhaps because I am on vacation, but I can still change the font color to create an invisible link: http://www.adobe.com/ ← can you see that?

Edit: ok, I can create the "invisible" link, but visibility comes back after posting.

[#18]

Testing

Lorem ipsum RED

Lorem ipsum GREEN - CENTERED

EDIT:  Changes confirmed.

Style:  Header 1  !! ??

Camera icon: 

Well, the camera icon still works.

Message was edited by: Tai Lao

[#19]

cop out. pfft. call a freakin waaaaaa-mbulance.

[#20]

Okay I signed up per JVD's instructions.

[#21]

Okay I've gotten ito the forums section:

where do I post to section related to the Adobe forums

I need a ligitmate list of the faults of the current systems

here are some I can think of:

1. Update Forum system 2.5.16 to 4.0.11 or the most current version available.
2. Fix bug related To lines of text misteriously breaking at just any point without user's knowledge or help.
3. fix bug related to turning off ability to use Color because of spam concerns. Return the abilities to use underline, strike through, italics
   
4. remove completely from menu the button for changing the color (misnamed as Style).
5. fix bug and return the ability to insert attachments Forum, without creating a way to introduce spam or cause harm to system.

As soon as I get a list I will Post it.

Okay I've saved this list  and as soon as I get a list of other problems I will report them.

I am dead serious about these matters. It nonsense we have to put up with this stuff for 18 months or more and we just receive lips service from adobe and the monitors.

[#22]

PjonesCET wrote:

Okay I've gotten ito the forums section:

where do I post to section related to the Adobe forums

How about sticking to the point? In your previous message you claimed we could have removed the color button and the ability to add color alltogether. That is something we didn't know was possible, so I asked you to tell us how we can configure that. Based on the configuration options from http://www.jivesoftware.com/jivespace/docs/DOC-1640, what should we enter in the configuration fields to remove the color options without the negative side effects we are currently experiencing?

[#23]

Jochem van Dieten wrote:

In your previous message you claimed we could have removed the color button and the ability to add color alltogether. That is something we didn't know was possible

What? Phil has commented on something that has nothing to do with the issue?

Get...out!

[#24]

Jochem van Dieten wrote:

PjonesCET wrote:

Okay I've gotten ito the forums section:

where do I post to section related to the Adobe forums

How about sticking to the point? In your previous message you claimed we could have removed the color button and the ability to add color alltogether. That is something we didn't know was possible, so I asked you to tell us how we can configure that. Based on the configuration options from http://www.jivesoftware.com/jivespace/docs/DOC-1640, what should we enter in the configuration fields to remove the color options without the negative side effects we are currently experiencing?

You mean to tell me that  the designers of this great software can not remove the button for style (color)  you were able to  remove the button to insert files.

Remove the button for style.  Then remove the ability to change color, If that is what causing spam problems.

Gosh  I hope all programmers can't think that far ahead. You remove both.

Now your just trying to tease me.

The offer is still open  send me a list of all the troubles. I might not be able to come up with a cure. I can at least report them. That's better than the current situation. Odds are the adobe people and the Jive people are unaware of what needs to be fixed.

[#25]

Hi Phillip

I'm sure the Jive folks are equally as eager to fix problems with software lagging a couple of versions behind as Adobe is to issue patches to address issues if someone refused to upgrade Acrobat or Photoshop!

In other words, I don't believe reporting issues to Jive is likely to change anything other than to give you a warm fuzzy that you would then know it was reported. To someone. Somewhere.

Just sayin... Rick

[#26]

Captiv8r wrote:

Hi Phillip

I'm sure the Jive folks are equally as eager to fix problems with software lagging a couple of versions behind as Adobe is to issue patches to address issues if someone refused to upgrade Acrobat or Photoshop!

Fair enough, I suppose, but what the heck are they doing still selling the product then?

Just a sayin'.

Guess maybe I'm not a good judge, but it seems to me that if a company is selling a product, they should continue to provide support for it, and/or fix problems, no?  (Unless of course Adobe did not buy the product, but found it in a box of remainders at a church rummage sale. )

[#27]

PjonesCET wrote:

You mean to tell me that  the designers of this great software can not remove the button for style (color)  you were able to  remove the button to insert files.

I thought you said it was an easy fix Phil? No suggestions on how to actually do this easy chore?

[#28]

Doing

something is better

than

nothing

line breaks provided by

Jive.

[#29]

~graffiti wrote:

PjonesCET wrote:

You mean to tell me that  the designers of this great software can not remove the button for style (color)  you were able to  remove the button to insert files.

I thought you said it was an easy fix Phil? No suggestions on how to actually do this easy chore?

I've reviewed my comments, in this thread. no where can I find where I said it was easy.

Okay where is the exact forum on jive to report these matters. Atleast the pople at jive will know that someone other than JVD is aware of the issues. That at least someone cares.

[#30]

PjonesCET wrote:

I've reviewed my comments, in this thread. no where can I find where I said it was easy.

Okay where is the exact forum on jive to report these matters. Atleast the pople at jive will know that someone other than JVD is aware of the issues. That at least someone cares.

PjonesCET wrote:

You could have done the same thing by simply  removing the Color Button all together. and removed the ability to add color manually, instead of using a meat axe approach.

I think your exact words are right above.

[#31]

~graffiti wrote:

PjonesCET wrote:

I've reviewed my comments, in this thread. no where can I find where I said it was easy.

Okay where is the exact forum on jive to report these matters. Atleast the pople at jive will know that someone other than JVD is aware of the issues. That at least someone cares.

PjonesCET wrote:

You could have done the same thing by simply  removing the Color Button all together. and removed the ability to add color manually, instead of using a meat axe approach.

I think your exact words are right above.

at any point in the above did I say it was easy

[#32]

PjonesCET wrote:

.

at any point in the above did I say it was easy

Yes.

[#33]

PjonesCET wrote:

I've reviewed my comments, in this thread. no where can I find where I said it was easy.

You said we could do it. Now that you have access to the documentation you can see for yourself which options we have in configuring these forums. Do you still say that we can configure these forums so that the features are enabled but people can not hide spam? If so, how? If not, what is more important to you, having the features or fighting the spam?

Okay where is the exact forum on jive to report these matters. Atleast the pople at jive will know that someone other than JVD is aware of the issues. That at least someone cares.

Click "New" -> "Discussion" -> "Browse for more locations" -> "All Communities" to see where you are allowed to post and pick the most appropriate.

[#34]

~graffiti wrote:

PjonesCET wrote:

.

at any point in the above did I say it was easy

Yes.

Here is what I said : You could have done the same thing by simply removing the Color Button  all together. and removed the ability to add color manually, instead of  using a meat axe approach.

the word simply is a reference to what should have been removed, not not that it was a simply job to do. Perhaps I should have left the word simply out

[#35]

The point is that you said it could be done with no knowledge to support that statement. Maybe you did not mean it was easy, but that is how you came across.

However this is not really relevant. The fact is, that Jochem showed you to be wrong. It can not be done.

You'd do well to gracefully admit your mistake and get on with it instead of shoving the shoe further and further in...

Harbs

[#36]

PjonesCET wrote:

Perhaps I should have left the word simply out

Perhaps.

[#37]

I think we are already past the point where this discussion

should have ended. My original question was answered at the very beginning of this thread, but I forgot to mark it as answered then, so I'm doing it now. Let's hope this help to end this sterile discussion about whether Phillip should be crucified or we'd better close the door.

[#38]

Let's hope this help to end this sterile discussion about whether Phillip should be crucified or we'd better close the door.

thank you, kind sir.

[#39]

what is more important to you, having the features or fighting the spam?

Having the features.

You do not put everyone in jail because of one criminal.  You do not infringe on the rights of decent people because of a few indecent people.  You do not take away useful features because some abuse them.

Find another way to fix the spam.  If you have to move away from this POS Jive, then do it.  But put the features back!

[#40]

Find another way to fix the spam.  If you have to move away from this POS Jive, then do it.  But put the features back!

I (as well as many others in all likelihood) agree completely, but I'd have to say that after almost two years of this Jiveness, with all the dissatisfaction that has been expressed, with all the bugs (like the random line break) that are still there, it would seem as though Adobe Corp could care less. They are seemingly unable to fix - or to have fixed - the bugs in this software, nor do they seem to be interested in upgrading, or switching to something else.

[#41]

JSS1138 wrote:

what is more important to you, having the features or fighting the spam?

Having the features.

You do not put everyone in jail because of one criminal.  You do not infringe on the rights of decent people because of a few indecent people.  You do not take away useful features because some abuse them.

Find another way to fix the spam.  If you have to move away from this POS Jive, then do it.  But put the features back!

I agree . The features. and a Working forum where y

ou don't have starnge line breaks.  WE all use  Email with filters. Doesn't the Forum people know anything about setting up Filters for spam.

Yes w

e need to ditch Jive software. Even PHPbb is better.

[#42]

JSS1138 wrote:

You do not infringe on the rights of decent people because of a few indecent people.  You do not take away useful features because some abuse them.

The TSA screeners would disagree with that statement.

[#43]

JSS1138 wrote:

...

Find another way to fix the spam.  If you have to move away from this POS Jive, then do it.  But put the features back!

I have probably said this more than once, but I frequent other non-Adobe forums that are equally active and should therefore receive as much spam as these. But they manage quite all right to filter spam very efficiently, and to remove very quickly any spam that manages to get through, without sacrificing any feature. Of course, they are also very quick in repairing any bug reported by users.

[#44]

But The TSA people are checking for safety and security of Travelers from Terrorism.

T

he likelyh

ood of such concerns on an adobe forum is unlik

ely.

Biggest thing we have to w

orry about here is  someone selling meds directed at the males that frequent here

Get rich quick scheme, or s

elling  products not related  adobe products.

That could be handled by filters on the Servers  Plus a Policy like Microsoft's. If an abuse request its put in That account with that address is checked out they find out who actually sent it and permanent Block is put on that specify email (they looked for the spoofed address and go back to originator. If its determined its an actual account holder They remove the account and block the email address associated with that acount.

[#45]

JSS1138 wrote:

what is more important to you, having the features or fighting the spam?

Having the features.

You do not put everyone in jail because of one criminal.  You do not infringe on the rights of decent people because of a few indecent people.  You do not take away useful features because some abuse them.

Find another way to fix the spam.  If you have to move away from this POS Jive, then do it.  But put the features back!

But, But, But... That's not the American way! Less than .0001% of the population carries bombs onto airplanes. Yet ALL of us (including the pilots) now have to be screened as a result!

Cheers... Rick

[#46]

To really get back on the track, and deal with the real issue:

Claudio González wrote:

I can no longer change the font in my messages from the almost illegible tiny bad copy of Helvetica that someone chose for these forums, to one of the fonts that have been specially designed for screen reading like Verdana. I can make and see the change on screen, but text reverts to Arial on posting.

Safari/Mac; Explorer and Safari on Windows 7.

In addition, all the other styling options that were part of the new and improved forums, are gone.

As Jochem wrote in the first post (using the Tab to at least hint at the following being a quote):

     That is a consequence of closing a number of loopholes that allowed spammers to inject invisible links in messages.

     But IMHO this is a very positive side effect. Font control now lies with the reader of these forums who can use the techniques described in the FAQ to control how text should be rendered. This allows people to choose

a font that matches the way they read these forums depending on device (laptop or mobile phone), application (browser or client) etc.

The FAQs deal with stylesheets downloadable for certain browsers from somewhere else and the use of HTML.

Exactly which improvements does this leave us with  as compared to the fair forums (where we could just insert quotes from (any part/number of) other posts and have each stand out clearly, and where we could also use HTML, even without having to change the mode back and forth, and without the mess often created here (actually, I am still using the same HTML snippets))?

[#47]

Just a small, tangential suggestion about 'quoting' (as per your comment below):

As Jochem wrote in the first post (using the Tab to at least hint at the following being a quote😞

An alternative to using the often-irritating 'quote' feature, is to use the 'indent' instead.

[Edit: except that the excemental thing does not appear to work for the first post. How about the second?]

[Edit again: Nope! Scratch my suggestion: though the indent feature USED to work (I used it! I did!), and while it appears to work while one is in the message box, it no longer works once you post. A new improvement indeed! ]

{And in case anyone's sarcasm filters are not working, I really mean: what a piece of soft excretory matter this Jive Software is!}