Creative Cloud will make me poorer

Community Beginner ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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I would like to ask as politely as possible that the Cloud-or-nothing policy be reconsidered.

For myself, and per increasing evidence in these forums, the forced transition to Creative Cloud pricing will constitute pure, indefensible rent-seeking.

I earn my living from graphic design. I have purchased Adobe products for the past 15 years because those purchases have provided value, when they have provided value. It is a testament to the quality of recent versions that I have not needed to purchase every new version; as my purchase has been a business decision, when such has been the case I have not purchased those versions.

On other occasions, when I have been convinced that purchasing an upgrade would provide a good return, I have purchased it.

The new program of placing a gun to my head and declaring "we have decided that from now on, you will pay for all the versions of all the programs, or else never have any access to any future releases" suggests to me that Adobe has little faith in persuading me to purchase  future releases on their merits any longer.

If this is not the case, why not leave me the option? You cannot tell me that it would be too complicated; if one could not manage "complicated" one would not be running Adobe.

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New Here ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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Agreed!

Adobe this is a gun to your consumers head! Paying consumers. You are punishing us all for piracy.

Watch your loyal and paying customers walk away from you and find an alternative.

Thank you for your services but you will no longer be required.

Thank you and goodbye!

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Mentor ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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According ZDnet's New feed tonight. CS 6 is the last ever Creative Suit ever. If you want it you have to  600-1200 year subscription. And if no Internet c Connection The applications are not usuable.

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Explorer ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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Matt J Kuhns wrote:

I would like to ask as politely as possible that the Cloud-or-nothing policy be reconsidered.

I'll second that request.

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New Here ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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Ill Third that.

CON it is

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New Here ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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Ditto here.

I did the math for the last 12 years I have been purchasing Adobe products. If, during that time, I had been forced to pay the monthly price for access to the apps I need, my total costs would have been more than 3x my purchase costs over that same period.

As per the OP, I upgrade when there is a compelling reason to do so - not for every single release.

I think this is an awful shaft shift on Adobe's part and hope they'll reconsider. In the meantime, I intend to ride out my current CS 5.5 suite as long as possible and make a serious effort to transition to other products - even though there's not alot of out there to fill the void.

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New Here ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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Im sure the void will be filled in due time. Competing companies will catch wind of the mass exodus and cash in on it.

Adobe will realise that they made a mistake as long as everyone refuses to take this CON method.

Without full creative suite updates i sense adobe will become lazy and the updates will come slower and with less impact.

Hopefully this will end adobe's domainance on the design industry.

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New Here ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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I will second that too.

I was forced to get the cloud subscription:

   I bought Production Premium Suite 5.5.

   4 months later cs6 was deployed.

   6 months and my new t4i camera was not supported (dng option was ridiculous).

   Now i am a cloud user ( At least I did not buy the CS6).

And now I have a box with Suite Dvds in my desktop (lot of money) useless.

I am paying the subscription monthly and I have to stay for at least a year.

After that i will retire with the same box of old, unsupported   dvds)

IT IS NOT FARE. I am paying for the update I deserve the software

Marco

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New Here ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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If there is any question as to why Adobe is doing this, just look at their Form 10-K. This is their securities and exchange commission document, a legal document that they have to file so their investors know what is going on with the complany. This is exactly what they said regarding this move...

"...over time we expect this business model transition will significantly increase our longterm revenue growth rate by (1) attracting new users, (2) keeping our user base current and (3) thereby driving higher average

revenue per user"

So basically, Adobe spells it out for you right there. They admit this is a move to make more money by making their customers pay more. If that doesn't infuriate you I don't know what does.  Here is a link to the document...

http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/investor-relations/PDFs/ADBE_10K_FY12_...

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New Here ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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To the first point, You do have to sink quite a bit of money into the initial investment of buying the software. So I can see how a monthly subscription fee could be attractive to new customers. But to point number 2, I don't see how going to a subscription fee only model will necessarily keep current users, who have already made the investment.

It is similar to the difference between renting or owning your own house.  If you rent long enough you will have sunk as much money as it would have cost you to own the house. But in the end you still don't own anything.

I think that Adobe has some of the best products out on the market. And because of that they have a very loyal customer base, who will keep coming back for more. And while a "software rental" subscription will probably work for large companies. It will not work for many users who do not have the income to offset the price, thus forcing those customers to look for other solutions.  I don't know how big or small of a percentage of their total customer base the casual/small time user represents. Perhaps it is a small enough group that Adobe doesn't care if they lose those users.  But it makes me sad. I've been using the software since version 4 of Photoshop.  And while I'm sure I will still be using it at work. At home where I usually update every second or third version, I will now just use my copy of CS5 until I can't anymore, and then go without it.  I hope that by that time Adobe will come up with an affordable solution for the casual user.

It will be interesting to watch what happens over the next few months and years.  Will people and Companies buy into the subscription fee or will the hold out and use their current versions for as long as possible?  Will they lose some of their costumer base?….

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New Here ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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It will not work for many users who do not have the income to offset the price, thus forcing those customers to look for other solutions.  I don't know how big or small of a percentage of their total customer base the casual/small time user represents. Perhaps it is a small enough group that Adobe doesn't care if they lose those users.

Y'know, this touches on a point that keeps coming up in a variety of places - that if you aren't upgrading every version, you are probably a casual user or not a professional and Adobe doesn't care about losing those customers. I'm sure that's true for alot of users but I suspect it's not the case for many more. I'm a freelancer and I am a professional. I earn a VERY good living at what I do - and I work for some very large and prestigious clients.

However, my decision to not upgrade every version is not due to lack of funds. Just becasue I earn enough money that I could upgrade every version, I never have (until just moving from CS 5.5 to CS 6 today). To me, it's never made economic sense to upgrade every version - I just never saw the value in doing so. It wasn't an issue of being a casual user or not having the income - it was just good business to limit my costs where I could. The subscription model takes that power away from me - to judge how and when I decide to purchase my software. I suspect there are alot of people in that boat - and they're the ones I think this may hurt even more than the true 'non-professional' who can maybe transisiton to a product like Pixelmator, for example.

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LEGEND ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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Smurlin wrote:

However, my decision to not upgrade every version is not due to lack of funds. Just becasue I earn enough money that I could upgrade every version, I never have (until just moving from CS 5.5 to CS 6 today). To me, it's never made economic sense to upgrade every version - I just never saw the value in doing so.

As of last year if you did not upgrade to each new version you would have to pay full price if you wanted to move up.  That seems like an expensive route.  If you used PS extended and upgraded every cycle that would be $400/18 or $22/month.

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New Here ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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As of last year if you did not upgrade to each new version you would have to pay full price if you wanted to move up.  That seems like an expensive route.  If you used PS extended and upgraded every cycle that would be $400/18 or $22/month.

Well, perhaps as of last year but in the last 12 years it's been quite cost-effective (not including today's upgrade, I only upgraded twice in that 12 years (bought CS1 > upgraded to CS3 > upgraded to CS5.5). I don't know what the new policy would have been moving forward but even assuming roughly $2000 to buy the latest Web & Design Premium package every 4 to 6 years is still far cheaper than $50/month.

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New Here ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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To me, it's never made economic sense to upgrade every version - I just never saw the value in doing so. It wasn't an issue of being a casual user or not having the income - it was just good business to limit my costs where I could. The subscription model takes that power away from me - to judge how and when I decide to purchase my software.

Very true. I work for a small company.  They generally try wait to upgrade their software too.  Usually what promps them to upgrade is when we start receiving artwork from newer versions that we can't open.

I know that Adobe is trying to cut down on the version skippers, but I also know exactly what my company will do with this new subscription policy. They will get one subscription which they will be able to use to open new artwork and save it to be used with older versions. And the rest of us will continue to use the old version that we already have on our computer. I'm not sure that will work in Adobe's favor or not.

And I think the loss of our freedom to chose when and what to buy is a big sting!

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New Here ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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Let's just call it the CON Policy (Cloud Or Nothing). That name fits well, don't you think? The new CON Policy punishes those of us who prefer to OWN instead of LEASE. Because that's what it is. It's a lease. You won't own jack.

I purchased (legally, mind you) CS2 waaaay back when CS2 was the latest version. And guess what? I'm still using it. However, I have upgraded Lightroom at every occasion because I use it much more. But I guess LR5 will be the last of that. I assume LR6 will be a CON release.

Now, we can complain all day and it won't make much difference, however... if we all decide to buy LR5, CS6, etc. and never join the CON... ever... well, they'll eventually get the point. Embargos usually get noticed.

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New Here ,
May 07, 2013 May 07, 2013

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Thank you for making my decision Adobe, from today I will buy Apple Products Aperture to replace Photoshop and Motion for After Effect. Not everyone has high speed internet. Well, you lost a customer. Customers should have a choice of download or subscription. I'm just pissed!

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New Here ,
May 07, 2013 May 07, 2013

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I foresee staying with CS6 for a looooooooooooooooooooong time. And as long as our printers do too, why not? I have a feeling a lot of people with do this as long as they can. Hopefully Adobe will come to their senses by then.

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Community Beginner ,
May 07, 2013 May 07, 2013

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This move by Adobe was clearly motivated by greed. In no way is their cloud pricing structure less expensive. $50 for a month? Sure, that's possibly less than one good meal, but think about the upgrade cost of a CS suite. I paid about $600 for my last upgrade and I can use that for years. Over those same years of use with my own version, I will need to pay thousands of more dollars for the same thing.

To be truly cost effective, I now not only have to have to calculate the cost of the software into a budget, but I also need to determine how much time is spent using the software to know if it's worth the monthly expenditure.

If I determine the cost of the subscription is worth it to my business, what happens if, at the end of the year, my subscription expires and I don't renew. Then a client returns asking for changes or updates. I now have to absorb the cost of a new subscription for the changes. I don't make that much money from this software to justify the costs here. Not by a long shot.

Methinks it's time for a change.

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LEGEND ,
May 07, 2013 May 07, 2013

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But Adobe is going forward irrespective of what users say.  Look at this blog:

<http://blogs.adobe.com/fireworks/2013/05/the-future-of-adobe-fireworks.html>

Fireworks is dead.  PERIOD.

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New Here ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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It seems like Adobe is alienating a good portion of their clients and leaving a lot of casual users out in the cold.

At home I use adobe software for personal projects. I do some design work for my church, some photography etc. I rarely do work that I get paid for. And not more than one or two projects a month.  Therefore it doesn't make since for me to pay a monthly subscription fee for a software bundle that I use a couple times a month for projects that I don't get paid for.

So going to a subscription fee only means that Adobe will be losing my business. In a since they are driving a lot of potenial clients away to other services. This cannot be good for the long run.

I can see that a subscription fee might make since for larger companies that do a lot of work and need to keep up with the newest version of the software. But that being said, everything that I currently do at my design job can still be done on practically any old version of CS.

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Most Valuable Participant ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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Over in another discussion (I don't have a link) it was stated that Adobe will continue to sell CS6 on disc... with bug fixes and security enhancements for the (unstated) life of the product (my words, paraphrased) but NO new features

So, if CS6 does what you want, that is all you need... which is what I am going to do... stay with CS6 and I will not go the Cloud route

I do home video editing and a few other things, so have no income to offset the price of a Cloud subscription... and CS6 is all I need

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Mentor ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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I beg to differ I went yesterday and looked for Web Premium CS6 Its not there. I will have to buy it from Amazon.

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New Here ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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I beg to differ I went yesterday and looked for Web Premium CS6 Its not there. I will have to buy it from Amazon.

Hmmm... I just purchased the Web & Design Premium upgrade from the Adobe site and am currently downloading it. It was hard to find - I don't recall exactely how I got there but I did. It was $375 to upgrade from CS 5.5 and I plan to ride out CS6 for at least a couple years and see what the landscape looks like at that point.

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LEGEND ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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Adobe has changed the whole "buy me" process in the last 2 years.  They first started by reducing the upgrade policy from 3 back to 1.  Now they eliminated the boxed set entirely.

The long term user of PS products probably updated every other version, or about once every 4 years.  So that made ownership cost reasonable. Now for that person, even without the Cloud, the cost would be double or more.  For PS in the US that would be 200/4 or $50 year.  With the requirement of updating each time that would be $100 per year.

With the Cloud as the only option a major change in thinking and use will be needed.  The casual user could rent PS three months a year and still come out ahead.  But in reality this does not make sense as for this level of user they could do the same work with PS7, or any of the CS versions.  The big sticky point is ACR.  But if you convert to DNG that problem is solved.

I am sure other software venders will jump up to fill the gap of the casual user that does not want to rent software.  When they get enough credibility they will also move to the more lucrative renting model.

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Community Beginner ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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Adobe is a company and as a company it is in business to make money. It is not in business to make any of us happy. It is abundantly clear this move is designed to generate revenue and they can't  be faulted for trying to be profitable.

For argument's sake, let's say Adobe has doubled the cost of using their software. For their revenue stream to remain EVEN they could lose up to half of their users. Does anyone think this move will cause Adobe to lose half of their clients? No. In that regard, this move will end up making Adobe money.

It is my belief this move is still wrong. It seems better to broaden your customer base rather than reduce it. Sure, a lot of us are hobbyists, not-for-profits and small businesses that just represent chump change to Adobe, but it still seems to make better sense to me to make a product more desirable rather than more expensive. Yes, price increases are expected, but only in small increments and generally in line with inflation.

This move makes me wonder what the life span of such products as Photoshop might have. How different is it today from what it was even five or ten years ago? 64 bit? Yes, great. A handful of new filters? Yes, also great, but how else? When they started adding video editing it makde me think Adobe developers may be scratching their heads about what else they can do to make it useful. Surely, that's a difficult task, but I believe there are a great of deal of new frontiers to be explored yet that can keep Photoshop viable for years to come.

For example, I'd love to see real 3D texture painting. Sure, it does that now, but it's clunky and not very effective. Offer support to load popular object formats and generate UV maps as we paint. Other products specialize in this. Why can't Photoshop?

Also, what about offering additional tools as plugins? How about developing a better matte picker? That's not something we all need, so offer it as a plugin.

Lastly, I know developing software is expensive and it should be. It's hard work! So why not drop some of the smaller applications and focus on the bigger ones? Does anyone really use SpeedGrade? Prelude?

Just saying.

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