e-mail replies ===> time lag !!

Explorer ,
May 28, 2009 May 28, 2009

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Dear Adobe team. e-mail replies more or less work now (apart from the still unfixed formatting issues).

But ... sometimes there are considerable delays between the e-mail reply and the time that it's posted to your website. Sometimes 10-30 minutes. Of course, nobody can prove that it's Adobe servers not being able to catch up with all the e-mails. It might just as well have been delayed on it's way through "e-mail cyberspace" ...

But I was writing mails to other people at the same time and they did reply back immediately ...

... still no proof of anything.

Just saying that you might want to check your server load, etc., because it happens that users don't find their e-mail reply here on the forums and then double post via the web interface (only to see their message posted a second time via e-mail then) ....

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Advocate ,
May 28, 2009 May 28, 2009

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Christian Davideck wrote on 2009-05-28 20:54:

But ... sometimes there are considerable delays between the e-mail reply and the time that it's posted to your website. Sometimes 10-30 minutes. Of course, nobody can prove that it's Adobe servers not being able to catch up with all the e-mails. It might just as well have been delayed on it's way through "e-mail cyberspace" ...

Those of us who run their own email servers can prove to the second

accurately when the email was accepted by the Jive email servers.

The issue with the variable delays in email processing has been noticed,

proven and reported before. Adobe escalated it to Jive and Jive

considers a variable delay to be functioning by design, as long as

individual messages show up on the forum with 24 hours and there is no

issue that affects all users.

As long as there is no monitoring of the email system users are

requested to report cases where email takes more then 24 hours or the

issue appears to be systemic.

Jochem

--

Jochem van Dieten

http://jochem.vandieten.net/

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Explorer ,
May 28, 2009 May 28, 2009

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thanks for these insights.

What a nonsense this response of Jive's...

So as long as not all users are affected or messages are delivered

within 24 hours, that's fine ....

great!

:rolleyes:

So basically, this is not something either Adobe or Jive will work on,

right ?

Too annoying.

Again, thanks for your explanation.

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Adobe Employee ,
May 29, 2009 May 29, 2009

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Thanks to Jochem for posting a reply on this.

The 24 hour timeframe is not the desired performance we're looking for - it's more of an absolute worst-case scenario in a range provided to us by Jive based on what they've seen in the past. As you guys have mentioned previously, emails can get hung up at any point between A and B, which is why we have to accommodate some window of time for possible delays. That said, if you guys are seeing consistent delays across the board (something indicative of a system-wide phenomenon), by all means, please report them even if the delay looks to be anything more than 4-5 hours - as long as it's system-wide.

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Enthusiast ,
May 28, 2009 May 28, 2009

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Are the Jive Geniuses serious:  24 hrs? 

This is the longest-running joke that isn't funny.

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Explorer ,
May 28, 2009 May 28, 2009

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Adobe would have been way better off programming their own forum software.

Consider what Adobe loses in terms of time, money and last but not least

nerves by playing Chinese Whispers simultaneously with Jive and users here.

Are the Jive Geniuses serious: 24 hrs?

This is the longest-running joke that isn't funny.

>

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Participant ,
May 29, 2009 May 29, 2009

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RSS feeds are worse than e-mail in terms of lateness. Makes RSS pretty useless for following a conversation in a reasonable time frame.

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Explorer ,
May 29, 2009 May 29, 2009

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Sorry for my ignorance, but isn't RSS up-to-date whenever you click on

"get messages" in your RSS reader ... ?

RSS feeds are worse than e-mail in terms of lateness. Makes RSS pretty

useless for following a conversation in a reasonable time frame.

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LEGEND ,
May 29, 2009 May 29, 2009

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I use RSS feeds to monitor and reply to the forum (NetNewsWire on the Mac). The minimal automatic refresh time is 30 minutes and the feeds work well. Manual refreshes when needed work with no issue. I monitor too many forums to worry about conversations that take place more frequently. I barely get to work through my list when the refresh comes my way.

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Participant ,
May 30, 2009 May 30, 2009

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Not necessarily. The Publisher sets how often they send updates, but some readers I suppose, can request updates sooner.

I know Outlooks RSS reader has a feature were one can set their own interval or chose the Publishers default. I'm using Google Reader and this doesn't appear to be an option. It seems that Google in their wisdom, uses the Publishers default. I'm got a query in to Google to see about this.


It helps to hear what others get in their readers; so thanks for the feedback. Gives me more ammunition when talking to Google.

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Advocate ,
May 31, 2009 May 31, 2009

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Back to time lag on email responses.

From the Jive forums:

How long does it take for a response to a comment to be logged and posted on the site if it is submi...

May 29, 2009 3:50 PM  in response to: nnewcomer

Re: Response posted from e-mail?

By default, the email manager runs every 30 seconds to check the specified email account for new responses. Once a message is read from the email box to the application, it should be posted as a new message within seconds.

This setting is configurable with the system property "checkmail.frequency"

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Advocate ,
Jun 01, 2009 Jun 01, 2009

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Kath-H wrote on 2009-06-01 12:23:

>> http://www.jivesoftware.com/jivespace/community/support?view=discussions&start=0

>> By default, the email manager runs every 30 seconds to check the specified email account for new responses. Once a message is read from the email box to the application, it should be posted as a new message within seconds.

Adobe uses the Advancedemail plugin, not the default email system.

Jocem

--

Jochem van Dieten

http://jochem.vandieten.net/

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Advocate ,
May 29, 2009 May 29, 2009

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The issue with the variable delays in email processing has been noticed,

proven and reported before. Adobe escalated it to Jive and Jive

considers a variable delay to be functioning by design, as long as

individual messages show up on the forum with 24 hours and there is no

issue that affects all users.

Wait, hold on here--

Sure 24 hours obviously isn't Adobe's goal here but still... Jive actually said wait up to 24 hours??? ....AHAHAHAHAHAHA!

24 hours!!! ahaha

Oh, that's rich, I'm going to have some fun with this one.  I wonder if this post will show up now, or "WITHIN 24 HOURS".  lol

So much for "working" forum software huh, I guess it's a subjective thing?

So by their criteria, the forums "work" as long as:

1) Posted messages show up within 24 hours of their submission

2) Logins persist for 24 hours (or less)

3) Their support responds with a message basically saying "live with it", within 24 hours

4) The user interface responds to user input...within 24 hours

Sounds great!

Good thing Jive isn't in the medical field--a patient would come in with a nail in their head and they'd get a few Advil: "Give it 24 hours and let us know if it still hurts." lol

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Advocate ,
May 29, 2009 May 29, 2009

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You've met my doctor?

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Advocate ,
May 29, 2009 May 29, 2009

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Kath-H wrote:

You've met my doctor?

Yes, I know Dr Jive. He's a mean bastage, too.

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Enthusiast ,
May 29, 2009 May 29, 2009

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yea yea. we're talking about "universal" health care here too. i can't wait.

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Explorer ,
Jun 02, 2009 Jun 02, 2009

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Ansury wrote:

Wait, hold on here--

Sure 24 hours obviously isn't Adobe's goal here but still... Jive actually said wait up to 24 hours??? ....AHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I just received the following "undelivered mail" notification after ... guess what ... a lot more than 24 hours. It has actually been 5 days and 1 hour!


sent: 28 mai, 09:18

returned back to sender: 2 June, 09:55

This is the mail system at host mail.sgaur.hosted.jivesoftware.com.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.

                   The mail system

<clearspace-669328960-406017-2-1994638@mail.forums.adobe.com>: lost connection
    with 10.137.24.42[10.137.24.42] while sending end of data -- message may be
    sent more than once



Reporting-MTA: dns; mail.sgaur.hosted.jivesoftware.com
X-Postfix-Queue-ID: 109322408128
X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; xxxx@...
Arrival-Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 01:19:16 -0600 (MDT)

Final-Recipient: rfc822; clearspace-669328960-406017-2-1994638@mail.forums.adobe.com
Original-Recipient: rfc822;clearspace-669328960-406017-2-1994638@mail.forums.adobe.com
Action: failed
Status: 4.4.2
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; lost connection with 10.137.24.42[10.137.24.42]
    while sending end of data -- message may be sent more than once

Message was edited by: kanguyen to remove email address

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Engaged ,
Jun 02, 2009 Jun 02, 2009

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Well, Jive sure is jivin' around... maybe it's time they learnt to Samba?

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LEGEND ,
Jun 02, 2009 Jun 02, 2009

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<yawn>

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Advocate ,
Jun 02, 2009 Jun 02, 2009

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Christian Davideck wrote on 2009-06-02 13:55:

I just received the following "undelivered mail" notification after ... guess what ... a lot more than 24 hours.

Thank you for reporting. It has been added to one of the issues I

reported as 'evidence'.

Jochem

--

Jochem van Dieten

http://jochem.vandieten.net/

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Explorer ,
Jun 02, 2009 Jun 02, 2009

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Thank you for your efforts.

Just a personal comment: I would understand if an e-mail get's lost. But

I don't really get why an e-mail would be returned to the user after a

couple of days, instead of just posting it to the forum. I mean, the

mere fact, that it's sent back indicates, that the Jive knows that there

is an e-mail which has not been posted and also knows exactly which one

it is (it is attached to the error message).

I might be missing something, but ... well I don't understand that part.

<blockquote> Christian Davideck wrote on 2009-06-02 13:55: <blockquote>I just received the following "undelivered mail" notification after ... guess what ... a lot more than 24 hours.</blockquote>

Thank you for reporting. It has been added to one of the issues I

reported as 'evidence'.

Jochem

</blockquote

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Advocate ,
Jun 02, 2009 Jun 02, 2009

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LATEST

Christian Davideck wrote on 2009-06-03 04:55:

Thank you for your efforts.

Just a personal comment: I would understand if an e-mail get's lost. But

I don't really get why an e-mail would be returned to the user after a

couple of days, instead of just posting it to the forum. I mean, the

mere fact, that it's sent back indicates, that the Jive knows that there

is an e-mail which has not been posted and also knows exactly which one

it is (it is attached to the error message).

It is the way SMTP is designed. For the past 5 days the Jive email

gateway has been trying to deliver it to the forums email

implementation. But every time it tried, the forums email implementation

failed (most likely ran into an exception or timeout). So after 5 days

the email gateway has concluded that the forums email implementation is

unable to accept the message and returns it to the sender.

Jochem

--

Jochem van Dieten

http://jochem.vandieten.net/

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