Has this always been like this?

Oct 10, 2009

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I have just noticed that asking to be taken to the last message of a thread takes one to the last edited post, not to the last posted message. Also, the edited message shows its original time in the list, but the date and time of the last edit when open.


Has it always been like this, or has a recent change been made? I ask because I don't recall having observed this before (which doesn't really mean much). And, regardless of whether this is a recent change or it has always been like this, I find it very confusing. Perhaps marking a message as edited should be automatic, and not voluntary as it is today?

I am thinking, for example, of the automatic addition at the end of a message of a note saying "Last edited by (name of the author or host/moderator) on (date and time)". The reason for the edit would be added only if voluntarily added by the person who did it. As I will do voluntarily at the end of this message immediately after posting it.


I think that if, at the same time, editing a message doesn't make it automatically become the last one, everything would be quite a lot more clear and logical.

Message was edited by: Claudio González on October 10 2009, 8:18 am. Reason: offering an example of my proposition.

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Has this always been like this?

Oct 10, 2009

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I have just noticed that asking to be taken to the last message of a thread takes one to the last edited post, not to the last posted message. Also, the edited message shows its original time in the list, but the date and time of the last edit when open.


Has it always been like this, or has a recent change been made? I ask because I don't recall having observed this before (which doesn't really mean much). And, regardless of whether this is a recent change or it has always been like this, I find it very confusing. Perhaps marking a message as edited should be automatic, and not voluntary as it is today?

I am thinking, for example, of the automatic addition at the end of a message of a note saying "Last edited by (name of the author or host/moderator) on (date and time)". The reason for the edit would be added only if voluntarily added by the person who did it. As I will do voluntarily at the end of this message immediately after posting it.


I think that if, at the same time, editing a message doesn't make it automatically become the last one, everything would be quite a lot more clear and logical.

Message was edited by: Claudio González on October 10 2009, 8:18 am. Reason: offering an example of my proposition.

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Oct 10, 2009 0
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Good morning Claudio!


I just had the same thing happen to me in the "Just in Case" thread.  I read it yesterday and when I went back in today it didn't take me to the end, but to the post you had written in response to Rick (Captiv8r).  I don't know if you made an edit in that post or not, but I had read it and the posts down to John Joslin's reply all yesterday.


hopper

ps ... note the verdana ... 

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Good morning, Hopper.

Yes, I did edit that message earlier today, and I added this at the bottom:

Message was edited by: Claudio González on October 10 at 7:38 am (local).. Reason: small grammatical changes.

And thank you for using Verdana, although in these forums 10 points -which I use- is enough.

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Okay, 10pt it is! 


I hadn't noticed the "edited ..." part, but then I didn't look very hard for it, since I was surprised to be up so high in the thread when I had already read it!


I guess the edit makes it the "last" post in the thread timeline??


The forum comments thread lists also states that you made a reply "1 day ago", when in fact, it was done today, about 3 hours ago.  Weird stuff happening ...

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I use the verdana patch in the UserContent.js. Does it make any differenence.

Do you (each) use flat file or threaded view.

If you use threaded view it will always show the way you are talking about. In Flat File threading.  Threads stay in the as they original were posted even if updated. (at least they do for me.)

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greenjumpyone wrote:

Okay, 10pt it is! 


I hadn't noticed the "edited ..." part, but then I didn't look very hard for it, since I was surprised to be up so high in the thread when I had already read it!


I guess the edit makes it the "last" post in the thread timeline??


The forum comments thread lists also states that you made a reply "1 day ago", when in fact, it was done today, about 3 hours ago.  Weird stuff happening ...

Actually, what happens is the 'Last post' shows the last edited or posted. In the view – whether threaded or flat – the post retains its position. Only the time-stamp changes, which can cause a bit of confusion when you see an earlier post with a later time. Eg. post 100 has a time of 12.00pm while post 101 has a time of 11.30am.

Edit: Post 100 was edited after 101 was posted. As long as the succeeding post is not in reply, you can edit away... but that you know anyway... (neat rhyme huh? )

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you're a poet ...

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Well, thank you all for sharing your experiences. I am aware of all that has been written in this thread, and my opening message had a question, and a proposition that are running the risk of becoming forgotten.


My question, that can be answered by any observant user, is: has it always been like this? As I said, I don't recall having seen the last edited message to become the last posted one in the list of topics while preserving its time stamp there, but changing the date of posting in the message view.


And my proposition, that can only be taken in account by a host/moderator, was to have the "Last edited by: XXX..." line to be added automatically every time a message is edited. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to have been noticed by any host/moderator so far.

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Claudio,


I'm sorry I was fully clear in my first post.  No, I have not had that happen to me before today.  As far as I recall, I have always been taken to the very last post in the thread, not the last edited post in the thread.


hopper

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Hopper, you got five points for that (I'm assuming you meant "wasn't"). Now, let's hope some other users come and tell us if they agree with us or not.

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Oct 11, 2009

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Claudio González wrote:

I have just noticed that asking to be taken to the last message of a thread takes one to the last edited post, not to the last posted message. Also, the edited message shows its original time in the list, but the date and time of the last edit when open.


Has it always been like this

Yes

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jochemd wrote:

Claudio González wrote:

I have just noticed that asking to be taken to the last message of a thread takes one to the last edited post, not to the last posted message. Also, the edited message shows its original time in the list, but the date and time of the last edit when open.


Has it always been like this

Yes

Thank you for answering. Although I could have almost sworn that asking to be taken to the last posted message used to take me tho the last posted, and not the last edited one, you are someone who should know and I'll have to take your word for it. Which opens a new question for you or other person in the know: as this is obviously not desirable, is it something that we might expect to be corrected soon?


And you didn't say anything about my proposition of adding automatically the line "Last edited by: XXX on..." at the end of each edited message. Is it not even worth of considering/commenting? I ask because this is done in other forums I frequent, and I think it's both fair and useful.

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Claudio González wrote on 10/11/2009 1:01 PM:

Although I could have almost sworn that asking to be taken to the last posted message used to take me tho the last posted, and not the last edited one, you are someone who should know and I'll have to take your word for it.

It is actually more complicated. Sometimes you are taken to the last

posted and sometimes to the last edited. But the logic to determine to

which one you will be taken has not changed.

Which opens a new question for you or other person in the know: as this is obviously not desirable, is it something that we might expect to be corrected soon?

I wouldn't count on it.

And you didn't say anything about my proposition of adding automatically the line "Last edited by: XXX on..." at the end of each edited message. Is it not even worth of considering/commenting?

I only comment on things I care about.

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jochemd wrote:

Claudio González wrote on 10/11/2009 1:01 PM:

Although I could have almost sworn that asking to be taken to the last posted message used to take me tho the last posted, and not the last edited one, you are someone who should know and I'll have to take your word for it.

It is actually more complicated. Sometimes you are taken to the last

posted and sometimes to the last edited. But the logic to determine to

which one you will be taken has not changed.

This additional information makes it even easier to take your word for this. Thanks.

jochemd wrote:

Which opens a new question for you or other person in the know: as this is obviously not desirable, is it something that we might expect to be corrected soon?

I wouldn't count on it.

Well, at least this clears up where we stand.

jochemd wrote:

And you didn't say anything about my proposition of adding automatically the line "Last edited by: XXX on..." at the end of each edited message. Is it not even worth of considering/commenting?

I only comment on things I care about.

Fair enough. I wonder if there is any other person in the know who cares enough to comment on this? JC, Kanguyen? I still think it's not a completely unreasonable proposition.

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Claudio González wrote on 10/11/2009 1:26 PM:

I still think it's not a completely unreasonable proposition.

Seriously? You think Adobe should spend resources on having Jive rewrite

the entire content editing system?

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jochemd wrote:

Claudio González wrote on 10/11/2009 1:26 PM:

I still think it's not a completely unreasonable proposition.

Seriously? You think Adobe should spend resources on having Jive rewrite

the entire content editing system?

I am completely ignorant of how easy or difficult it is to implement any change. I only know that there are other forums in which every edited message is automatically marked as edited, and this avoids many needless misunderstandings. And where, by the way, the logic that decides where to take one when asking for the last message always takes one to the last posted one.

Incidentally, had you explained from the beginning that what I am proposing here is much too difficult/complicated to do in the Jive software, this exchange would have been much shorter...

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Claudio González wrote on 10/11/2009 1:52 PM:

Incidentally, had you explained from the beginning that what I am proposing here is much too difficult/complicated to do in the Jive software, this exchange would have been much shorter...

I expect people to do that research themselves. If you just look at the

opening post of the thread you see the first problem right there staring

you in your face: that "October 10 2009, 8:18 am" is not localized and

for some users is showing as an earlier date then the date the message

was posted, and for others is showing as an edit date hours after the

message was posted and was already replied to.

For the second problem, go to the test forum and repeatedly edit the

same message.

The bottom line is this: if you want to know what is going on and keep

up with all the updates / deletes, you are going to need the email

notifications and compare those to the current content and use some

logic to interpolate the differences. That is the way it works, and that

is the way it will continue to work.

If you don't like that, I would suggest asking Jive (like I already did

months ago http://www.jivesoftware.com/jivespace/thread/54001).

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Your reply may be perfectly correct but there is no need to adopt that supercilious tone with the users.


Try "friendly" for a nice change.


If it weren't for them, there wouldn't be a forum.

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I suspect that 'friendly', like 'human' does not compute.

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dang Jochem, you haven't posted here in a little while and when you do, you are argumentative. 


Regarding the appending of "message edited" ... surely that can't mean a rewrite of the software?  The checkbox is already there, it would seem it should be a simple thing to default it to being checked instead of not checked.


Expecting people to do the research on how the inner workings of the forum functions?  You're kidding me, right?  I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask the questions and expect reasonable, non-arrogant answers back.  The fact that the software does choose the last edited post, whether new or editing a previous post, sounds like it still stands.  Regardless of timezone, it's still the last timestamped new/edited post, right?


and bottom line, I am not going to be forced to use the email option simply so I can see how things work!  I will ask questions if there are things that particularly peak my curisoty and I do have every expectation that I will get a reasonable and polite reply.

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greenjumpyone wrote on 10/11/2009 3:10 PM:

Regarding the appending of "message edited" ... surely that can't mean a rewrite of the software?

Well, as the thread I linked explains you could do it through the plugin

system too. Still requires you to add a table to store the data, update

all the output templates to show it and rewrite the webservices to

expose it.

The checkbox is already there, it would seem it should be a simple thing to default it to being checked instead of not checked.

And how is that going to provide the requested timestamps? How is that

going to affect repeated updates? How is that going to affect updates

that don't go through the website but through the webservies?

Expecting people to do the research on how the inner workings of the forum functions? You're kidding me, right?

I am serious. If you are the originator of 70 message thread on the

localization of times in these forums I expect you to apply the

knowledge obtained in that thread when you ask for something else at a

later time.

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jochemd wrote:

The checkbox is already there, it would seem it should be a simple thing to default it to being checked instead of not checked.

And how is that going to provide the requested timestamps? How is that

going to affect repeated updates? How is that going to affect updates

that don't go through the website but through the webservies?

I'm not a software developer, so that's not for me to work out.  The system is already in place to allow for the requested comment to be placed at the end of the message, that's all I was commenting about. By default the checkbox could be ENABLED and not be given the choice to disable it.

I am not sure if others are specifically looking for the timestamp, but clearly the system already has it in place, if it is taking a reader to the last *edited* message.  Since it's already there, displaying it shouldn't be such a tough thing for a software development company to do.

jochemd wrote:

I am serious. If you are the originator of 70 message thread on the

localization of times in these forums I expect you to apply the

knowledge obtained in that thread when you ask for something else at a

later time.

Beginning a thread does not equate to how many replies end up in the thread, so saying that an OP started a 70 message thread is not relevant.  Asking questions about timestamps and why the messages appear to have *wrong* timestamps, even when you are the originator of the message is quite different from asking about how the forum software is taking you to specific messages in a thread.

You said that the functionality has been there all along, to take one to the last edited message, but that has not been my experience here.  Maybe I just didn't realize it, or maybe, just maybe it wasn't always like that.

The real point here is:  we are not all programming gurus.  We're not going to install all the plugins, subscribe via email, do the footwork that Adobe should be doing.  We are users of the software and the forums.  We have questions.  Sometimes the questions can circle back to other questions, other times not.  But to berate the users for asking the questions, clearly because they don't understand the answers/reasons, is wrong.

I have always been taught that there are no bad questions, but that does not seem to be the case in this forum. 

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Apple's forums are like that  and someone here told me that the also use Jive as well.

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John Joslin wrote:

Your reply may be perfectly correct but there is no need to adopt that supercilious tone with the users.


Try "friendly" for a nice change.


If it weren't for them, there wouldn't be a forum.

The holiday's over... that's why....

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jochemd wrote:

Claudio González wrote on 10/11/2009 1:52 PM:

Incidentally, had you explained from the beginning that what I am proposing here is much too difficult/complicated to do in the Jive software, this exchange would have been much shorter...

I expect people to do that research themselves. If you just look at the

opening post of the thread you see the first problem right there staring

you in your face: that "October 10 2009, 8:18 am" is not localized and

for some users is showing as an earlier date then the date the message

was posted, and for others is showing as an edit date hours after the

message was posted and was already replied to.

For the second problem, go to the test forum and repeatedly edit the

same message.

The bottom line is this: if you want to know what is going on and keep

up with all the updates / deletes, you are going to need the email

notifications and compare those to the current content and use some

logic to interpolate the differences. That is the way it works, and that

is the way it will continue to work.

If you don't like that, I would suggest asking Jive (like I already did

months ago http://www.jivesoftware.com/jivespace/thread/54001).

I am surprised. Until you posted this message, I was feeling very satisfied to see that we were capable of holding what seemed to me like a perfectly civilized conversation between us. I did my best to be always polite and not to blame you of anything, and therefore I think that your belligerent answer is completely unjustified.


I am completely ignorant of the inner workings of any forum, and I wouldn't think it should be necessary for anyone to become an expert to use any of them. Just like millions of people use cellular/mobile phones without the slightest notion of the magic that allows them to communicate through them. If my naive question irritate you, you can ignore them, and even delete them, but you don't need to be hostile.

Message was edited by: Claudio González at 1:39 pm (local).

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A further case with an unexpected variant. Both ways of asking to be taken to the last post of this thread

http://forums.adobe.com/message/2306883?tstart=0#2306883

take me to the first one. ???

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