How seriously do we take this point system?

[JayJhabrix]

Seriously, do points matter? Do you want them? Why if so, why, if not? Are points any good? Do points make you feel more secure? Are points pointed and sharp or are they blunt and blunted? Do points encourage you to answer questions or do they discourage you?

Points are not a line... but connecting two pints makes a line... So do points awarded in an answer draw aline and stop all further discussion?

I've been following threads in DW General and AI General. I notice that threads, by and large, stop far sooner than they would have. I put that down to the lack of participants for various reasons and the 'Correct' answer flag. So much knowledge and information is not being shared.

True, a lot of the posts came from the NNTP side... but a lot also came from the web side... these forums are killing all spontaniety.

However, the killers are:

1/ Lack of NNTP

2/ Points

3/ Correct answers

[Michael Borbor]

Hi Patty, you shouldn't be afraid of ask.

I saw several people suggested that someone who asks a question isn't the right person to determine which one is the right answer, aren't those people the same  people that say points are useless?

If I ask a question I consider an answer whatever answer that helps me solve my problem, sometimes the answer couldn't be the best, but if it helps me to move on then I'm ok, why should anyone be angry about that?

Patty mark a post as an aswer when that post helps you, that's it.

You're a very considered and nice person.

Have a good day or night.

Michael

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

Michael Borbor wrote:

If I ask a question I consider an answer whatever answer that helps me solve my problem, sometimes the answer couldn't be the best, but if it helps me to move on then I'm ok, why should anyone be angry about that?

You miss the point.

No one is going to "be angry about that"?  But you might well be deprived of a more correct answer to your question.  The one post you marked as the answer may be only a temporary solution, or a sub-optimal one, or even one that will actually cause damage to your system.

[Kath-H]

If I ask a question I consider an answer whatever answer that helps me solve my problem, sometimes the answer couldn't be the best, but if it helps me to move on then I'm ok, why should anyone be angry about that?

Please think a bit beyond yourself and your situation. You asked the original question but you don't 'own' it (yellow buttons notwithstanding). You may be offered a bodge by someone trying to help, it might seem helpful to you but might cause you trouble down the line.

Something similar happened to me, although my advice was sound, when someone marked a question answered after taking my advice, turning it upside down, half implementing it and thinking everything was fixed. Not only are they heading for trouble, someone else coming along may also be misled.

An 'answered' icon may have the effect of closing down a discussion where more needs to be said.

[Guest]

If you uncheck the box I mentioned, the whole discussion becomes redundant.

And it is a blow against the stupid points system.

[Kath-H]

@ Patty:

That little grey text is clickable;)

'Possibly Answered' simply means that someone has responded, completely regardless of what they said.

[Michael Borbor]

Yes Kath I kinda agree with you, but if I'm a new comer, and ask a question for instance about how to separate two files in Flex and make them talk to each other, if know nothing about this tech and someone tells me to learn a design pattern or to use a framework for instance for someone new to the technology that's just an overhead, I'm learning already a technology, know I need to know something else... This could be the long term solution, but at that point I just need the short term solution, the easiest one, no the best and most technical savvy solution, so yes if you ask a question you're selfish, because you need an answer for your problem, not anyone else problem.

Sometimes the same solution works for someone else, sometimes don't. And most of time every problem has more than one possible solution.

And Patty if you see that someone is going in the wrong way post it, when people look a thread they read it all from tom to bottom, and if the marked solution doesn't work for them they post asking for more directions or what else to do.

[Harbs.]

Michael, I think you explained very nicely why the answers should not be "answered". You are quite right the the correct answer for one user might not be the best solution for another -- especially when dealing with users on different skill levels. However, these foru are not just about tech support. They are a place where all users can learn from each other and relate on a professional level -- not just where newbees learn from the pros.

Very often by discussing other possible solutions to a question posed by a newb, experienced users develop better solutions than the ones they were using previously. (Not to mention allowing the new users to see that they have more to learn in the future...) If the conversation does not continue, new ideas simply aren't brought up! While the simple answers might be the most appropriate for the newcomer, the continued conversation benefits everyone.

Bottom line: "ANSWERING" QUESTIONS KILLS FURTHERING EDUCATION AND PROFESSIONAL INTERACTION!!!

[Michael Borbor]

Sometimes could be true what you're saying, but in the forums I participate sometimes we have the longest threads to discuss something so simple, so I don't think that's a problem. It could be because in the forums that I participate there are people with very different ideas and beliefs about how an app should be done, so maybe we're always prone to have a meaningful discussion in order to tind a solution that suits all tastes.

I don't think how an answer question can discourage anyone if I see that something in my opinion isn't right I speak up.

By the way, thank you Adobe the e-mail system delivery is broken.

[Guest]

I don't think how an answer question can discourage anyone if I see that something in my opinion isn't right I speak up.

the way it discourages further interaction is that many people who see a thread marked "answered" won't bother to post corrections or additions to that thread where they might be needed. they'll figure they're just typing into the ether.

in the cases of those of us not necessarily looking for answers, but looking to help, we might not even read a thread marked answered, because it's such a PITA to navigate in this stupid forum we prefer to spend our time trying to help someone who hasn't already bailed out on their thread.

[Guest]

I think the point system/numbers of posts sets up the wrong though process.  A new poster sees lots of points or a high post count from a given responder and they might well think that's all that matters.  Of course, the answer might be complete rubbish ... 

My vote:  Stop the post count (it's not accurate anyway for those long standing members who didn't get all their post counts converted) and the points.

On a side note, how does one earn that second blob?  Is it points based?  I can see it's not post based, as dave has 17K+ posts and is still only one blob!

[Guest]

when people look a thread they read it all from tom to bottom,

I disagree. and i'm guilty of grabbing the "correct" answer and bailing out on a thread (in another forum). having a marked answer DIScourages reading the full thread and possibly getting a better answer.

[Guest]

pattyclarke wrote:

The sad thing is I have another question I would like to ask of the InDesign experts, but I'm uncomfortable doing it because I still don't get how to handle the helpful and correct answer buttons. Do you wait until the end of the thread to do that so you don't minimize the conversation? Doesn't that really send a message when someone is intimidated to ask for help?

You can just ignore the stupid "helpful and correct answer" buttons or better still, when you start a topic, uncheck the box that says Mark this thread as a Question.

They always taught us in school that, to mark something as a question, you put one of these at the end of the sentence:

?

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

John Joslin wrote:

They always taught us in school that, to mark something as a question, you put one of these at the end of the sentence:

?

Well, several hundred million of us were taught to put one of these (¿) at the beginning of a question and only then one of the other ones (?) at the end.  

[Guest]

Ramón G Castañeda wrote:

... several hundred million of us were taught to put one of these (¿) at the beginning of a question and only then one of the other ones (?) at the end.  

The Spanish always were notoriously wasteful with ink!    

[Kath-H]

I think it doesn't really matter too much as the OP is the only one who sees the buttons for awarding points.

The point (!) is that the OP *does not know* that they are the only person seeing those buttons. Therefore they do not know that they are  the only one who can use them.

Patty, I would click 'helpful answer' if you feel that's appropriate - whenever you like, straight away or later. This awards 5 points. You should be able to do this for two posts - except you seem to have special powers

I'd avoid 'correct answer' as that causes a tick to appear in the list of threads and will discourage further participation - unless you are quite sure you have the final, definitive answer.

It's possible to mark the question answered right at the top of the thread, without awarding points or crediting any one person - as above, I'd avoid it unless you're certain there's no more to be said.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

Patty,

Just ask away.  Ignore the points system.  The ones most likely to give you a helpful answer don't give a rat's behind about points.

Personally, I have all extraneous information about all users blocked in my browser.  I see no avatars, no red blobs, no number of posts, no ACE or Community Expert labels and no points for anyone.

If it hadn't been for John Joslin informing me I had reached the 9,000 post mark, I wouldn't have known it.  It's an arbitrary number anyway, as I was shown with about 28,000 posts or some such ridiculous number at the time of the aborted changeover a couple of years ago.  When JJ made that remark, I peeked in another, unblocked browser and noticed I also had some absurd number of points around the 300 mark, and I just shrugged.

Thank you for sharing how you feel about this, though.  It is certainly a huge black eye in the face of the promoters of the points systems when the system is preventing a knowledgeable user like you from posting a question.

What more will it take, Adobe and Jive, to convince you drop this idiocy?

[Kath-H]

When JJ made that remark, I peeked in another, unblocked browser and noticed I also had some absurd number of points around the 300 mark, and I just shrugged.

Guess what Ramón, you're now a 2-blobber. Please behave with the dignity and decorum expected of such an exalted individual (watch JJ and copy him )

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

Hope you're joking, Kath.  On the other hand, you wouldn't be the first one to tell me I need to lose some blubber.

Wait… blobber doesn't necessary involve blubber, does it?  Well, sort of…

[Kath-H]

Me, tease a member of that rarified club? Perish the thought!

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

Good grief!  I had forgotten how ugly that cartoon speech bubble looks. 

This is all I see, mercifully:

[Guest]

Interesting I just discovered that I'm a participant Now that I have two red bars under my picture. I thought I was participating before but I was wrong. I was just a user.

[Christian_Davideck]

I think all those who dislike the point system can ... safely ignore it. So no problem there, right ?

The advantages are that it gives incentives to find solutions and help others and that threads still awaiting a solution are spotted more easily (and thus have a better chance of being taken care of)
.

[Guest]

Christian Davideck wrote:

The advantages are that it gives incentives to find solutions and help others and that threads still awaiting a solution are spotted more easily (and thus have a better chance of being taken care of).

That might be the idea but in these kinds of forums it doesn't work that way.

You really don't have much idea do you?

[pattyclarke]

Thanks Jacob - that's my friend Patty - how odd that she was able to give 3 lots of 'helpful answer' stars instead of two. I don't see the 'punishment' angle though.

Hi I'm Kath's friend Patty and now I'm feeling bad. I came to the forums to ask questions of the experienced people and I received incredible help that I was so grateful for. Now I see my thread referenced from Jacob like I did something wrong. I didn't mark correct answer because Jacob led me to believe that capitalization is an area that is ambiguous so there is more than one correct answer. So obviously I didn't do something right. I marked every response as helpful because it was (except for Ramon's response that wasn't directed at me).

Geeze, if a person asking for help needs to understand the point system, somebody better make it clear to us. I didn't even know I was the one that was supposed to check the helpful or correct answer box until Kath told me that. On another thread when I marked correct, thinking that I could choose helpful or correct as many times as it was responded to, the thread showed as "Answered" and I didn't think that was good. Because if my question shows "Answered" why would anyone waste their time giving their input.

Jacob you helped me tremendously and I feel bad that I don't understand the point system enough to give you the proper praise and gratitude that I feel. And I learned early on back in the "good old days" of the Adobe forums that there isn't really one "correct answer" there are many ways to accomplish a task.

Patty

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

Patty,

You have done absolutey nothing wrong.  Quite the contrary.

The "points" system here is something we all hate and criticize.  I'm sure Jacob did not mean to slight you at all, just to show one more instance of why the points system doesn't work.