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I give up...

Community Beginner ,
Sep 13, 2009

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I give up...

Really, i do... locked threads, deleted posts.. enough pointers and threads started by me protesting this and no one else responds... Obviously, i'm in a minority...

Oh, well... that's life i guess... Anyway, enjoy! 

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I give up...

Community Beginner ,
Sep 13, 2009

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I give up...

Really, i do... locked threads, deleted posts.. enough pointers and threads started by me protesting this and no one else responds... Obviously, i'm in a minority...

Oh, well... that's life i guess... Anyway, enjoy! 

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Sep 13, 2009 0
Contributor ,
Sep 13, 2009

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JJ,

Believe me, you are not in the minority.  It's the minority that's affecting the user experience for the majority here. 

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New Here ,
Sep 13, 2009

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Really, i do... locked threads, deleted posts.. enough pointers and threads started by me protesting this and no one else responds... Obviously, i'm in a minority...

No, but many of us have already given up.

It's been my sad observation that, when faced with someone who is in posession of more power than oneself, and is unreasonable, untractable and hostile, most rational people will eventually say "Enough! This is pointless: I cannot afford to waste energy on this," and do their best to get on with their lives.

I found Capiv8r's comment in the 'Abandon all hope' thread :

in the miniscule fora I'm a participant in, most of the support is provided by Community Experts. Sure, there are a few typical users that visit regularly and contribute, but by and large it's the experts in the trenches so to speak. So I sort of figured that is the way most of the other forums worked here. Looks like my perception of that may be skewed. I was shaking my head in disbelief that so many Community Experts would be turning their backs on the fora simply because they disagreed with the forum software. So part of my perception on that was that if someone was a Community Expert and simply turned away, they should lose that status and be replaced by other knowledgable folks that stand by the users seeking answers.

Rather illuminating. It explains the lack of concern from these "experts" about people leaving. More "status" for them, then. Actually, to my mind it explains the hostility, and the seeming deliberate driving away of the old "users". More status for the experts. As for the "Users", they generally regard the "points" and status thing as stupid. It is certainly not egalitarian.  Captiv8r seems to me generally decent, but I find the comment about other knowledgable folks that stand by the users seeking answers not quite right. It is not users 'standing by the users' - it is "Community Experts" with status and "Points" standing in front of the users, dispensing answers. This is what his comment about 'most of the support being provided by the Community Experts' means to me.

So, these new "Community Experts" with their "status" have moved into a different sort of community, where it has been merely "Users" interacting with other users. No status, no points, no titles. They would have no rank, and, as people who have attained rank and "
status" tend to enjoy they priveledges these give them, they are interested in retaining their rank and status. This means the old guard, who think such things stupid, has to go. Thus the hostility and/or indifference. As JJ has remarked elsewhere, they do not understand what has been lost because they never had it, and, thus, they don't care.

Anyway, I decided a while back I didn't have the energy for this, but I did want to remark about Captiv8r's comment, and what I interpret from it. I also did want to re-iterate what Hopper (GreenJumpyOne) said above.

Logging out now (yes, doing it myself now, rather than waiting for the excrementatious Jive software to do it for me. Oh! Wait! I had better "select all" of this post and copy it, just in case I get logged out whilst trying to post! (And they wonder why people have left this place? Why should people attempting to help out here have to add this last step to their posting procedure. Oy. After six months!)).

Oh, wait again! While I'm still here.... another comment from a friend of mine who teaches web design & whom I've mentioned this steaming pile of code to.

People think it's a great idea to merge data bases! You just match entity to entity! What people forget, though, is that software desginers/engineers are people too, and they use quick fixes and kludges in their work. Then, when they try to merge the data bases, things don't match up because of the quick fixes and kludges, the system doesn't work, and people are tearing their hair out.

(That was the general gist; I'm not a software designer, so I may have garbled it.)

Anyway, I think I really will go now. Just one more pearl of wisdom from my spiritual leader (i.e., ME): when you cut the roots off a tree, the tree falls over and dies.

It's sunny outside. I think I will go look at my garden.

Aug_27_2009_PIC_0145.JPG

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Sep 13, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 13, 2009

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Hi Kami

Lucky you! Nice garden.

I would find it difficult to believe that Community Experts would be pleased to see others go. There is no power or perceived status increase that is garnered by others leaving. I've always viewed the forums as users helping users. It just so happens that some users are Community Experts because over time they have provided enough helpful and accurate and polite answers so as to warrant an invitation into the program as a thank you by the software manufacturer. Well, at least that's how it used to be. I believe that nowadays it's a process whereby you make an application. Then an evaluation occurs based on your application. But even today, before you are renewed with Community Expert status you are asked to provide links to recent activity.

I gather from your interpretation of:

...but I find the comment about other knowledgable folks that stand by the users seeking answers not quite right. It is not users 'standing by the users' - it is "Community Experts" with status and "Points" standing in front of the users, dispensing answers. This is what his comment about 'most of the support being provided by the Community Experts' means to me.

This would seem that you would prefer Community Experts do not participate in fora and offer assistance? While I cannot speak for my fellow Community Experts, I can tell you that the points and status really mean nothing to me. I'd still be assisting others with questions and issues if I didn't have the status. Granted I'm appreciative that Adobe (or whoever the software manufacturer is) grants special recognition for contributions. I'm also a Microsoft MVP for Windows Help Systems.

Your interpretation of what I said seems to infer that you feel Community Experts are simply in the way of "real" assistance and offering obstacles to overcome. That the only motivation is sausage bars or points. I did not become a Community Expert for that purpose and it would be a pretty shallow reason if I did. I simply enjoy assisting others and helping them overcome issues that I recall facing myself with nobody to ask why they were happening.

Cheers... Rick

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Sep 13, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 13, 2009

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Your interpretation of what I said seems to infer that you feel Community Experts are simply in the way of "real" assistance and offering obstacles to overcome.

Rick,

Jumping in to this thread, I have to add that in the fora, where I spend the greatest amount of my time, we are blessed with several Community Experts. Maybe these folk are unique, but their contributions to all threads are always greatly appreciated. I believe that most also have MOD status, but could be wrong on that.

While every answer might not have been 100% correct to the OP's situation, their input has still furthered the threads, and in very positive ways.

I cannot speak for all fora, nor for all Community Experts - maybe we just got the best of the best? I feel the same for the Adobe Employees, who have dropped by. Each has contributed to each of those threads.

Hunt

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Sep 13, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 13, 2009

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Rick

You are missing the point.

You said:

This would seem that you would prefer Community Experts do not participate in fora and offer assistance?

What would be preferable would be that all fellow users, without fancy titles, do participate in fora and offer assistance. To the traditionalists, "Community Expert" is meaningless and like a red rag to a bull. In the past we had real experts but most of them have left in disgust.


It so happens that quite a few "Community Experts" are also immature and condescending.  That is an awful combination!


I'll leave it to you to work out who!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PS: I have a nice garden  too!

fromtheoffice.jpg

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LEGEND ,
Sep 13, 2009

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It so happens that quite a few "Community Experts" are also immature and condescending.

Your experiences seem to run contra to mine. Maybe I just frequent the right fora? I count myself very fortunate.

Hunt

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Mentor ,
Sep 13, 2009

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Captiv8r wrote:

Hi Kami

Lucky you! Nice garden.

I would find it difficult to believe that Community Experts would be pleased to see others go. There is no power or perceived status increase that is garnered by others leaving. I've always viewed the forums as users helping users. It just so happens that some users are Community Experts because over time they have provided enough helpful and accurate and polite answers so as to warrant an invitation into the program as a thank you by the software manufacturer. Well, at least that's how it used to be. I believe that nowadays it's a process whereby you make an application. Then an evaluation occurs based on your application. But even today, before you are renewed with Community Expert status you are asked to provide links to recent activity.

I gather from your interpretation of:

...but I find the comment about other knowledgable folks that stand by the users seeking answers not quite right. It is not users 'standing by the users' - it is "Community Experts" with status and "Points" standing in front of the users, dispensing answers. This is what his comment about 'most of the support being provided by the Community Experts' means to me.

This would seem that you would prefer Community Experts do not participate in fora and offer assistance? While I cannot speak for my fellow Community Experts, I can tell you that the points and status really mean nothing to me. I'd still be assisting others with questions and issues if I didn't have the status. Granted I'm appreciative that Adobe (or whoever the software manufacturer is) grants special recognition for contributions. I'm also a Microsoft MVP for Windows Help Systems.


I don't take the comment as that as all. The way I take is comment, which many of feel, is that what most important to Adobe Forum Mangagers and Adobe in general; is that the user seeking information is not important at all. It's more important to have Community experts and giving of receiving of  points.  And that the User expreince of giving and recieving help is of little interest.


The most important thing is the User nothing else matters. To some here its strictly a head trip or power play. No one else matters.  Cheers.

Your interpretation of what I said seems to infer that you feel Community Experts are simply in the way of "real" assistance and offering obstacles to overcome. That the only motivation is sausage bars or points. I did not become a Community Expert for that purpose and it would be a pretty shallow reason if I did. I simply enjoy assisting others and helping them overcome issues that I recall facing myself with nobody to ask why they were happening.

Cheers... Rick

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New Here ,
Sep 14, 2009

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I would find it difficult to believe that Community Experts would be pleased to see others go. There is no power or perceived status increase that is garnered by others leaving.

You were the one who said (bolding & underlining mine):

I was shaking my head in disbelief that so many Community Experts would be turning their backs on the fora simply because they disagreed with the forum software. So part of my perception on that was that if someone was a Community Expert and simply turned away, they should lose that status and be replaced by other knowledgable folks

That the only motivation is sausage bars or points. I did not become a Community Expert for that purpose and it would be a pretty shallow reason if I did. I simply enjoy assisting others and helping them overcome issues that I recall facing myself with nobody to ask why they were happening.

Oh, well, you may be wondrously altruistic, but your comment above seems to imply that you don't feel others are.

The titles are percieved by many here as pompous & meaningless, as are "points". If you don't care about your 'status' as a community expert, why not create a new UserID - without any status. See if your experience changes.

As for the rest of what you said. Eh. Whatever. You may be pleasant enough, but you have a remarkable-seeming behaviour to blithely ignore a lot of things & I don't have the time to repeat myself for those who will not hear.

Ta.

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