I used to champion these forums. Now I don't give a gnat's...

Contributor ,
Jul 12, 2009 Jul 12, 2009

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I was a contributor, a corrector, a clarifier.


I'd write 1,500 words explaining every possible angle on the simplest of topics, sometimes revealing tricks to people who have far more experience with Photoshop than I do. I exercised painstaking detail in choosing the proper terminology and phrasing when answering questions, and I'd test everything to make sure what I posted was correct. I was an obsessive re-editor of my posts if I noticed the wording was wrong, or didn't flow well. I'd craft screen shot composites so clean you couldn't tell they weren't monitor images that could occur natively. I added arrows, and numbering, and translucent, colored-box paragraph backgrounds for descriptors, colors chosen for the best clarity I could muster. I'd bodge together difficult GIF animations and QT Movies if it would help a user understand a concept more completely.


I was a defender, a protector, an evangelist.


I took it personally when newbies and spammers would come in and muck the place up. I was sometimes brusque, other times gentle in trying to bring people into line with how to get the most out of their time here. I beat up on troublemakers ruthlessly, and without remorse.


I brought the "How to Get Help Quickly" mantra to this forum after reading it elsewhere, because it was the best exposition I'd ever seen on the subject of efficient information exchange.


I'd take the time to help troubleshoot forum problems.


Now, I don't give a crap about what happens to this place. I'd been hoping for the best, as I had during past attempts at major forum changes.


It's clear to me now that the planning, preparation, roll-out and fine tuning has been doomed from the start.


Every single person involved in ramming this new system through is to blame.


And I'm only one person. I'd guess there are hundreds of people who feel the same way I do.


Too bad, Adobe. You totally and completely screwed up.


I'll still visit once in awhile, because there are people here that I like.


But as for all that content I was giving away for free—and happily, I might add—and all the cheerleading I did for this place?


You can shove all that right up that gnat's arse and then go sit on your own thumbs and spin.


It feels to me like you are intentionally doing almost everything in your power to discourage the type of participation I used to revel in. From slow bug fixes and promises unkept (EFF you very much, Jive–shysters) to the mere trickle of ongoing feedback and update info offhandedly tossed to us, Adobe have become slumlords, slapping paint on a building that fails to meet standard-of-living code. Sure, there are some decent new features, but they either don't work, work only part of the time, are cumbersome, and generally regarded as so slow as to inhibit any sort of lively momentum.

I'd be ashamed and embarrassed to be the captain of this rotting ship. As a fully vested, ranking mate on this vessel, I hereby resign my commission.

You don't deserve my help anymore.




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Guru ,
Jul 12, 2009 Jul 12, 2009

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About sums it up.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 12, 2009 Jul 12, 2009

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This is a sad day when greats like Phos + four Dots hangs up his hat.  This fourm has taken a step down in quality of answers with his loss.

In the old forum I always clcked on his responses, even if it was a subject I really was not intested in, becasue I knew there would be a well written, detailed explaination of a complex problem.  He seemed to excell in that, and stayed away from the one line responses like "reset your preferences".  You, and others like you, made the forum educational rather than just a "how to fix a problem in under 3 lines of text".

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Enthusiast ,
Jul 12, 2009 Jul 12, 2009

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I can't help but wonder if any Adobe Suits really give a damn!

I can't think of a single recommendation that was made during the beta period that was actually taken into account when this mess was officially forced down our throats.

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Mentor ,
Jul 12, 2009 Jul 12, 2009

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Do the Adobe suits even look at forums.

I doubt serious those types that sit with the $600.00  Patent Leather shoes up on the $20,000 Mahogany Desk, and the Armoni suits and smoke foot long Havana Cigars, and drive around Bentley, or MB  or the other fancy cars. Even know about these forums. and would give a .... whether they even exist or not.

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Mentor ,
Jul 12, 2009 Jul 12, 2009

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bye Phos,

Since Macromedia's aquisition of Adobe its been down hill ever since.

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Enthusiast ,
Jul 12, 2009 Jul 12, 2009

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wish i could grant points to a topic originator. <sigh>

wait, on second thought i wish i'd never heard of points.

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Engaged ,
Jul 12, 2009 Jul 12, 2009

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Phos...

I've been seeing your posts since.... when? The year dot? Always helpful... always bang on... and on the rare occasion you made a mistake you never tried to justify or argue but accepted and moved on... truly a person worth his/her weight in the forums...

But so many have moved on and out... can't really speak for all but the DW forums are sorely lacking in all the truly knowledgeable ones... David P is about the only real heavyweight still there... Murray has not posted since mid-June. Massimo, Al and the host of others have gone...

And the sad part is that Adobe either doesn't realise what they're losing / lost or don't give a rat's anal vent...

Sad... really sad...

JJ

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Contributor ,
Jul 12, 2009 Jul 12, 2009

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Unfortunately, Phos summed it up quite well. 

So many folks have left, more are on the precipice and these forums are just not a place for helpful information as they were prior to the ... <sigh> .... implementation of this sad excuse for forum software.

Are the suits listening?  Who knows?  They certainly should be, because they have effectively given up on their absolute BEST resource for tech support ... it's users.

And I had to log in again ....

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Advocate ,
Jul 12, 2009 Jul 12, 2009

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The forums still seem pretty busy - but then they would be, just as many people need help. I suppose the bean counters just look at the numbers, if they look at all, don't care about quality of answers (no disrespect to those who are soldiering on, taking on more of the load).

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Contributor ,
Jul 12, 2009 Jul 12, 2009

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Kath,

I understand there are still those requireing answers and are hoping to get them.  It's the number of folks who are *trying* to provide the answers that's gone down.  And, as you have suggested, perhaps the *quality* of the answers has suffered, despite valiant attempts by some to soldier on.

It's not a home away from home any longer.    The family atmosphere is gone now. 

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Advocate ,
Jul 12, 2009 Jul 12, 2009

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Yes, I wasn't disagreeing with you at all - just thinking things might look OK to marketing types only taking a cursory look at numbers.

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Contributor ,
Jul 12, 2009 Jul 12, 2009

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<nodding>

I know.  We're squarely on the same page.

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Mentor ,
Jul 12, 2009 Jul 12, 2009

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Well I'm finding that I really don't want to help as much its too much trouble.

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Explorer ,
Jul 12, 2009 Jul 12, 2009

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…………… And I'm only one person. I'd guess there are hundreds of people who feel the same way I do.

Yes — and I am one of them.

I now look in every couple of weeks to see if anything has been done to clean up this mess; see that it hasn't; and just quietly slip away again — without even bothering to sign in.

I have probably been contributing extensively to these Forums for about the same length of time as Buko and Phos but those days are over because I absolutely refuse to help or answer questions while this dismal format and dreadful software continues in use.

Eventually, it will be only Chris Cox who is left to field questions and I wonder how much longer he will be willing to waste his time here either.

It was fun while it lasted ….

Ann

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LEGEND ,
Jul 12, 2009 Jul 12, 2009

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Well, a piece of rubbish software is not going to get the better of me!   

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Most Valuable Participant ,
Jul 12, 2009 Jul 12, 2009

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Phos, although I am answering your opening message, I'm not really addressing this message to you, but to everyone.


Almost exactly a month ago, I accepted the first important job I have been offered in more that two years. I did although it had a 30 days deadline and I knew it was very difficult, if not impossible, to complete it in that time. Well, I did manage to finish it not long ago, and one of the first things I did was to come back to my once beloved forums, full of hope of being met with some important changes introduced in these 30 days.


I am sorry to say that, so far, I have noticed only these two changes:


1. The "Report spam..." link in the stickies now points to the correct thread, not to a locked one, something I had been asking for weeks before this 30 days interlude; and


2. The problem for which I offered a suggestion in this post

http://forums.adobe.com/message/1968406#1968406

and which had received a very good solution as I reported two days later, is back here. Plus, the "Next" button doesn't work (I don't remember if it worked before the change that was reverted).


As this forum is full of so many easy to fix complaints, seeing only these two changes in 30 days -one of which can hardly be called an improvement- was really very discouraging. However, what really got me down was reading the opening post of this thread.


Those who haven't followed Phos' trajectory in these forums may think that he is making false pretences, or at least exagerating, about his contributions to these forums. I am one of those who can testify that he is doing neither.


To make it short: over these so many years trying to give whatever modest help I'm capable of in the Acrobat and Reader forums, I lost count of the times I asked Phos, somewhat jokingly, to please leave the easy questions for me to answer. Each time I saw a just published easy one, I rushed to try to answer it, only to find he had done a much better job than my attempt, and had replied a several other more recent questions in the meantime. He showed an infinite patience to answer the same questions over and over again, which I admired because I don't have it and just refered the questioner to the appropriate FAQ instead -when I did manage to post before he did.


And he did everything else he writes in his OP, never boasting about what he did and accomplished. That's why I am sorry he had to do it now, I imagine that in an attempt to put some weight to his words. Not for us, of course, but for those responsible for this unbelievably large fiasco they have so stubbornly refused to acknowledge. And we used to call a fiasco the previous one, which was nothing compared with this mess, and which was rectified!


I am afraid that I am feeling my age, and so I'm finding that the enormous effort that too many very capable users have being putting in suggestions to improve these new forums, since the last "little fiasco" until now, to be such an gigantic waste, that I also don't feel like continuing. Had I not had this 30 days interlude with no noticeable changes, I would probably have continued by inertia for much longer, hopefully waiting for the improvements that never come, but this has opened my eyes. However, just logging in, or moving from one forum to another, is so excruciatingly slow that I find I simply do not have enough time to waste in just waiting for things to happen.


I will miss the group spirit of the old forums, and the many persons I got to know and like and care for, although knowing that I would never meet them. But then, I am missing more of them everyday and, after all, such is life.


Just a final thought. It is most probably true that JC has spent this week in the moutains. I would be happy to be corrected if I'm wrong, but I would say his presence has hardly been noticed, if at all, for quite a lot longer than a week. Another one of those many not at all encouraging signs.

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Enthusiast ,
Jul 12, 2009 Jul 12, 2009

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Those who haven't followed Phos' trajectory in these forums may think that he is making false pretences, or at least exagerating, about his contributions to these forums. I am one of those who can testify that he is doing neither.

hear! hear!

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LEGEND ,
Jul 12, 2009 Jul 12, 2009

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This is kind of funny. It's only a forum.

Look at me I have over a thousand points.

Do you know what that means? Do you?

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Most Valuable Participant ,
Jul 13, 2009 Jul 13, 2009

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Wade_Zimmerman wrote:

This is kind of funny. It's only a forum.

Look at me I have over a thousand points.

Do you know what that means? Do you?

Yes, it's only a forum. The only problem is that it has no relationship with the one many of us used to love, where we came for giving and receiving help, and meet good friends. That's why so many have already left it. You can keep this forum if you like it; we don't.

As to your question, I can answer only for myself:


ABSOLUTELY NOTHING USEFUL

Message was edited by: Claudio González. Reason: addition.

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New Here ,
Jul 13, 2009 Jul 13, 2009

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I admire the persistence indicated here.  It seems a shame that such a dedicated user should reach this state of disillusionment, but I can understand why.  I have had my own share of problems with Adobe software but when I have approached Adobe support for help, they rarely offer any real assistance.  Their software has numerous limitations which have affected by ability to complete my studies, retain my library of graphics and interface between different Adobe products.  When you contact Adobe, they don't want to know and even go so far as to put the phone down on you. They really need a competitor to put them in their place, but they seem to have a monopoly in so many areas, that they can just sit back and do nothing.  Users are held to ransom, and I guess the only way they could have any real influence, is to walk away as a group and tell Adobe to get their act together, but I doubt that will ever happen.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 13, 2009 Jul 13, 2009

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Now the pressure is off my back. Thanks that's relieving!

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Most Valuable Participant ,
Jul 13, 2009 Jul 13, 2009

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Wade_Zimmerman wrote:

Now the pressure is off my back. Thanks that's relieving!

Yes, you can stay completely releived. The forum is, or will be, all for you to clown as much as you like. That huge group of people who came here for serious reasons is becoming more scare with each passing day, so probably more sooner than later, you will no longer be disturbed by them.

This is another reason that's driving me off. Not only has one to waste time waiting for anything to happen whenever trying to do anything. I find it most tiring to also waste time in answering people who are unable to participate in any serious duscussion except by inserting what for them must sound like very witty comments, but that destroy the line of the main argument and invite others to follow the lead. Regardelss of the number of points they have been awarded by posting over 400 messages a month -which again shows the futility of the point system.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 13, 2009 Jul 13, 2009

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Well what can one say about that.

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Engaged ,
Jul 13, 2009 Jul 13, 2009

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Claudio González wrote:

I find it most tiring to also waste time in answering people who are unable to participate in any serious duscussion except by inserting what for them must sound like very witty comments, but that destroy the line of the main argument and invite others to follow the lead. Regardelss of the number of points they have been awarded by posting over 400 messages a month -which again shows the futility of the point system.

Claudio, me lad....

1. You don't have to read what you don't want to read

2. No points (which, i agree with, sucks anyway) are awarded by posts. Problem posters have to award them to people they think have solved the problem.

3. LIfe is a joke. So learn to laugh. And if life is a joke, so are these forums – particularly – you, partially and me completely! So just chill and enjoy the ride or else change your car. Right?

4. Tip: You can always bring a deviating thread back on target and those interested will focus in...

Cheers!

JJ

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