Jochem van Dieten Must Be Relieve of His Moderator Status (Mark II)

Community Beginner ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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The first thread on this matter seems to have been deleted, presumeably by Mr. van Dieten

It is my assertion that Jochem van Dieten has abused his moderator's priveledges by innappropriately deleting threads and posts with which he does not agree. He has been rude not only to some of the more 'curmudgeonly' forum members, but also to those whom are not troublesome (Claudio, 'GreenJumpyOne' are two that spring to mind). He has been arbitrary-seeming in many of his decisions as moderator; he has shown himself hostile, uncooperative and on occasion childish. He has not, seemingly, been held to account for his reprehensible, unprofessional conduct, and is (IMO) a disgrace to Adobe Corp. He has no 'people skills' and is thus an exceptionally bad choice for the position of moderator.

If you agree, please say so. If possible, give some examples of Mr. van Dieten's behaviour which illustrate my assertions above.

I am posting this partly to give people who wish to have a venue to complain about censorship (and other) issues may do so without taking up more space in another thread.

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correct answers 1 Correct Answer

Advocate , Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009
The fact you can even ask the question speaks for itself.

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Advocate ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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I agree!

And I have posted my examples recently, both here and in other places as well.

And for the record, yes this topic is about the forum operation (so it needs to stay)!

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Mentor ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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Send a private message to JC as well. Mr. Deleten can't delete that.

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Advocate ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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I have sent a PM to a different employee.

Anyway, that employee I contacted is looking into the process and said that he/she would get back to me.

In the mean time I'm sending JC one too. Maybe others should as well.

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Advocate ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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Agree. Rude and obnoxious.

http://forums.adobe.com/people/John%20Cornicello

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Advocate ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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I see you found it

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Advocate ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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Yes thank you... It took three searches, but I found it.

Message has already been sent.

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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I did assert that JVD was on occasion childish. Here is an illustration of both his childishness AND his rude behaviour:

JayJhabrix wrote:

In any event, you could well have remedied the situation by spelling out the name and asking me to kindly use the correct name in future.

I could have. I didn't. I will continue not to do so in the future. I am after all a poor, heavy handed host.

(The second quote is, of course, by JVD.)

Location in this thread:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/2162566#2162566

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Advocate ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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Here is my response from JC:

The Forum Hosts come from the Adobe Community Experts program.

I will talk to Jochem, but right now I don't think he is totally out of line.

John

I replied back asking him if he has seen the deleted posts and if he has read the comments other users are making about his moderating skills.

Perhaps, everyone needs to take a few minutes today to send JC a message.

Now, the question I want to know is, who is in charge of the Adobe Community Experts program? (who gives a moderator his/her moderating status)

This is all I can find, no names or anything:

What criteria does Adobe use to select experts?
Adobe selects those who best exemplify the program fundamentals of product proficiency, enthusiasm, and professionalism towards Adobe and the customer base.

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Advocate ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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That first thread you mention, would that be 

http://forums.adobe.com/message/2184990 ?

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Advocate ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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Thanks for linking to that thread. The post I was looking for was linked in that thread.

http://forums.adobe.com/message/2242730#2242730

The Poster here was dissatisfied with your moderation and I posted in that topic that they should visit the thread that you just linked http://forums.adobe.com/message/2184990 (how ironic), and I let that person know that he/she was not alone in their dislike of your moderating skills.

So Jochem, you care to tell everyone here where my responding post to that person went? It was in the Feedback forum which is where you told me that the post I brought up yesterday should have been left.

We are all entitled to an opinion. Just because it isn't something you like or is against you doesn't mean you have to delete it.

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Advocate ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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That post went to /dev/null. And if you scroll up in that thread you will see there is a message there that actually says:

ANN: if you wish to discuss moderation, do so in a dedicated thread in the Forum comments forum, not in a thread about another subject

Did it really come as a surprise that that message was removed?

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Advocate ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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Seeing as though the person had a direct issue with you, no. If that had been any other moderator the post would probably still be there.

Again, it just because someone has an issue with your moderating or disagrees with the way you do things does not mean that their post should be deleted.

Don't get me wrong here. I think you do have a lot of knowledge that can be very helpful. But since you have become a moderator it seems as though the power has gone to your head. You have had very few helpful posts in the last few months. Most of your posts coincide with the above issues and that is the reason that you are being singled out. I think you need to take a step back from the moderating side of things and try to be more helpful to those that are having genuine issues, instead of locking the threads and deleting posts just because you don't like what someone has to say.

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Advocate ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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I believe it's unreasonable to expect a moderator to not be human. Why should a moderator have to be subjected to constant ridicule, and not be allowed to make any mistakes of his own?

*Admitting* to some of those mistakes would give a much better impression of being human than we have seen so far. You seem to agree that mistakes have been made - I very much doubt that Jochem agrees with you. I have the impression of being moderated by a robot - albeit a 'humanly' touchy and sarcastic one.

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LEGEND ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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Yes, Kath.

I agree with you that admitting to mistakes once in a while would go a

very long way. I don't have the same image of Jochem that you do, but

I can understand why you feel the way you do. <sigh>

Harbs

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Advocate ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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Kath-H wrote on 9/16/2009 9:31 PM:

Admitting to some of those mistakes would give a much better impression of being human than we have seen so far.

Why would it be important that somebody is human?

You seem to agree that mistakes have been made - I very much doubt that Jochem agrees with you.

Mistakes are being made all the time. I would guesstimate that about 20%

of the threads I lock to prevent escalation would not escalate by

itself. But which ones? Yesterday evening I should have immediately

locked the "Adobe website and forums navigation" thread. But how was I

supposed to know somebody would start posting the same message there

over and over and that I would have to clean up after locking it to make

the repetitions stop?

When I write code, there is an error about every 10 lines (and those are

just the ones found during testing). Why would moderation be different?

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Advocate ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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But how was I

supposed to know somebody would start posting the same message there

over and over and that I would have to clean up after locking it to make

the repetitions stop?

It would not have been posted over and over again, had you not been deleting the post as soon as I was posting it.

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Advocate ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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You posted at 20:53Z, 20:55Z and 20:56Z, I locked at 20:56Z and deleted the messages afterwards.

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Advocate ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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Say what you want, but when I posted then refreshed the messages were gone.

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Advocate ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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And naturally when you can not find something, somebody has to be guilty. Just like the disappeared thread from the initial message of this thread.

If somebody at Adobe is willing to look at the log files the messageIDs are 2251068, 2251070 and 2251072.

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Advocate ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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Considering you had just posted before I made that "repeat" post...

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LEGEND ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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You posted at 20:53Z, 20:55Z and 20:56Z, I locked at 20:56Z and deleted the messages afterwards.

...

Say what you want, but when I posted then refreshed the messages were gone.

I was right! It DOES smell like a Jive bug...

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Advocate ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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Why would it be important that somebody is human?

So you have no sense that you are dealing with people (who tend to be human) ????? It's all just dots on a screen?

Good Lord, DK might have been ineffectual, might have come by her Community Expert (in Creative Suite!) status who knows how - and bossy - but even she appeared to belong to the same species as the rest of us!

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Advocate ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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Kath-H wrote:

Why would it be important that somebody is human?

So you have no sense that you are dealing with people (who tend to be human) ?????

I am merely asking you why it would be important that somebody is human. I can think of many possible reasons for that, but instead of presuming a convenient one and attacking that one (a.k.a. a straw man attack) I am just asking you for yours.

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Advocate ,
Sep 16, 2009 Sep 16, 2009

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The fact you can even ask the question speaks for itself.

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