likes and bookmarks in contents seem fairly useless to me

Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 08, 2014 Jun 08, 2014

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I usually view "Contents" of the current Fora I visit (Photoshop related mainly) so I can at least see if and how many replies have been posted to a thread.

To me the listing of "Likes" and "Bookmarks" (usually 0, it seems) seem to unnecessarily convolute the display, which would not be so bad if the "Replies" would differ more prominently, maybe by having a darker color or a bolder font.

And the author of the last post being listed would, as mentioned before, seem beneficial.

bookmarksLikes.png

Regards,

Pfaffenbichler

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LEGEND ,
Jun 08, 2014 Jun 08, 2014

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All part of Jive's efforts to be the Facebook of the cubicle world. It's true that in our case they're pretty meaningless as people rarely use them, but in a corporate setting where most discussions aren't questions and all the users are forced to be regular contributors, the "popularity" of a thread is important, especially when it comes to staff appraisal time!

If for example a discussion announces a new doodad extrusion on the company's Flanged Hoofer, "Likes" would be used just as they are in FB - "I think the extrusion is a good idea but don't have time to say so in longhand". Bookmarks tell the person posting the announcement that a bunch of people are waiting for more news. Showing details of replies isn't important to Jive's target user, as anyone interested in the thread would subscribe to it via their Inbox streams. It's why the Like and Bookmark numbers have popups, but Replies doesn't.

Can the layout of the Details widget be changed? Yes, in theory - with a customization to the software. Will it be? Not likely.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 09, 2014 Jun 09, 2014

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Thanks for elaborating.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 10, 2014 Jun 10, 2014

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I'm beginning to resign myself to these changes, much as I hate them. I think it's deliberate.

As a support forum (ie free support), which is obviously what Adobe wants and needs, this must now work close to optimally. As a discussion club for us oldtimers, it's getting more and more useless - but there's nothing in that for Adobe. They don't need us, and would probably be just as happy to see us go.

The final nail in the coffin was the disappearance of latest poster. Apparently an insignificant detail, but that is in fact the one single thing that most effectively discourages a "discussion club". Focus is now 100% on "what", not "who".

For photography/Photoshop/Lightroom discussion, I can recommend Luminous Landscape, and there are also others I haven't looked closely at, like photo.net.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 10, 2014 Jun 10, 2014

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The final nail in the coffin was the disappearance of latest poster. Apparently an insignificant detail,

Not an insignificant detail at all, I think.

But seemingly one that is not easily changed back to the previous state …

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LEGEND ,
Jun 10, 2014 Jun 10, 2014

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I think both Content and Overview pages should have author, last responder, time since last response, and "update", to show if thread has been changed since last visited.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 10, 2014 Jun 10, 2014

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should have author, last responder, time since last response, and "update",

One could get to wonder how the decision to remove such features was arrived at and by whom.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 10, 2014 Jun 10, 2014

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I suspect they were Adobe mods (or customizations) done by Jive to add them to those pages in the last version of Jive and they'll again have to be mods in this version.

The mods (I guess) would have to be done to the core forum code by Jive and may not be high on Jive's or Adobe's priority list.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 10, 2014 Jun 10, 2014

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It’s just difficult for me to imagine that other people use the Fora so very differently (or how) that they could even get the idea to remove features that seem so relevant to me like indicating a thread’s last poster …

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Mentor ,
Jun 11, 2014 Jun 11, 2014

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It's obvious that neither Adobe nor Jive cares about their users

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 11, 2014 Jun 11, 2014

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I hear you. I think the same way.

However it's increasingly obvious that Adobe is using Jive for very atypical (non-typical) use cases in the eyes of Jive.

Square peg, round hole every time we ask for a tweak.

It's simply not the right software for the Adobe forums but we're stuck with using it.

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LEGEND ,
Jun 11, 2014 Jun 11, 2014

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John Waller wrote:

I suspect they were Adobe mods (or customizations) done by Jive to add them to those pages in the last version of Jive and they'll again have to be mods in this version.

Correct - and one of the problems with all these custom patches is that eventually it's so far from the main branch that Jive Technical Support stops providing.... technical support.

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LEGEND ,
Jun 12, 2014 Jun 12, 2014

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Jive can not be the only option, and like others have pointed out Jive is moving away from the format needed even further with latest version.

I would hope that Adobe sees this and takes steps to change to a vendor that has a web service that is more closely alined with their needs rather than social media needs.

Surely Adobe has some contract with Jive to provide a product adhering to minimum specifications.  If Jive can not provide me these, and currently they can not, then the contract should be terminated and another vendor found.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 13, 2014 Jun 13, 2014

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Correct - and one of the problems with all these custom patches is that eventually it's so far from the main branch that Jive Technical Support stops providing.... technical support.

Thing is, custom patches to Jive are core functionality for forum users. Nothing exotic. Just simple usability for a forum.

These so-called "custom patches" are essential for using the forums with any degree of efficiency. Jive will never be the right solution.

We don't want or need the social media ecosystem that is obviously central to the Jive experience. Many people are disabling every non-forum feature they come across - some on a post-by-post basis. High maintenance indeed. So what's the point in using Jive? We just want a Q&A forum for discussing and learning more about Adobe software.

I still cannot see why Adobe cannot cut the apron strings with Jive and implement a solution more attuned to being a forum which we can all use properly.

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LEGEND ,
Jun 13, 2014 Jun 13, 2014

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In essence, if Adobe switched from Jive, we'd all start from scratch. That isn't acceptable to the decision-makers.

  • The database is proprietary - nobody has ever managed to migrate existing forum data from Jive to something else, and we have millions of records. People may not care if their points are reset, but all the answered questions are vital for customer support. It isn't just a case of "make the jive site into a static archive" - Adobe rent the platform, Jive's invoices don't change whether it's read-only or not..
  • All the links to pages on this domain would break - there are tens of thousands of those, scattered everywhere from Adobe.com to YouTube.
  • Being frank, this site runs on Jive's CDN so Adobe doesn't have the hassle of running one of their own. Given how much traffic the place gets it's not just a case of renting a server in a co-lo facility.

People are working hard to fix the bugs with Jive, but there's no escaping the fact that Adobe has limited funds. When you see what's coming next week hopefully you'll agree that spending their cash on product developments has been a sensible decision - after all, we're here because we're users of Adobe's software, not professional forum testers .

John Waller wrote:

I still cannot see why Adobe cannot cut the apron strings with Jive and implement a solution more attuned to being a forum which we can all use properly.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 13, 2014 Jun 13, 2014

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Yes, all points made eloquently by yourself and others in the past, Dave. I've heard them loud and clear in recent weeks but it does not change a thing for end users. Jive, as it stands, is still not suitable and requires seemingly extensive mods to be useful. Any forum tweak is clearly going to be an uphill battle requiring the patience of a saint each time.

Here we are with an unsatisfactory forum, plenty of unanswered feature requests which are likely to wither on the vine and lots of frustrated users and regulars. Something's got to give.

Is there much point in posting feature requests or enhancements? The same ones tend to get raised time and again. No (or little) change to date.

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Guru ,
Jun 13, 2014 Jun 13, 2014

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There is no question that going with Jive in the first place was a mistake, and upgrading to the latest incarnation is an even bigger mistake. I am sure that many Adobe staffers share this assessment, but I have seen only one staffer actually express that view. It would be nice (brave?) if more of them said so, even while doing their best to work with what's here.

There is also no question that we are stuck with Jive and will have to live with it. Some day, I hope, someone in authority at Adobe will decide that loyal users deserve better, and will realize that Adobe already has perfectly good resources for building an efficient, useful and cheap forum structure that provides straight-forward and to-the-point user support without the social media nonsense. I'd be willing to help with that.

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Mentor ,
Jun 13, 2014 Jun 13, 2014

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Actually we are stuck in quicksand and can never ever get out. Even if adobe was willing to move heaven and earth and the buck to back up their willingness - it stall can not be done. Until these forum and Adobe dies we can never get away from Jive.

The worst mistake/decision that even surpasses the dumb idea of going to subscription service. Is Hooking up with Jive. Its like being pulled kicking and screaming with Our hands tied and a Rope tied through a ring in our nose in to the Gates of of Hell.

Even is bad as it is with no hope of it being fixed like it should be, It's still better than nothing.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 14, 2014 Jun 14, 2014

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The worst mistake/decision that even surpasses the dumb idea of going to subscription service.

I still consider abandoning Perpetual Licenses for Cloud Licensing a pretty odious decision.

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Mentor ,
Jun 14, 2014 Jun 14, 2014

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Wish you luck Mr Rockefeller

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 14, 2014 Jun 14, 2014

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The idea that the current Cloud Licensing model could ultimately be in the users’ best interest seems unrealistic to me …

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LEGEND ,
Jun 14, 2014 Jun 14, 2014

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This is going off-topic. Let's not turn every thread about a specific forum feature into a debate about Adobe's business plans. The licensing model has been discussed ad infinitum elsewhere.

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Mentor ,
Jun 14, 2014 Jun 14, 2014

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LATEST

Another issue with but Adobe and others are not taking into quality of Internet connection or lack thereof.

Sadly The US is not number one in the world when it comes to Internet.

85% of the US either don't have Internet (in any form), have dialup (PPP) on Copper lines put in just after WWII, DSL over Copper (served by those same Lines put in just after WWII) Or cable connection that haven't been updated since the late 70's.

Only the other 15% in large Metropolitan areas, (Chicago, New York City, Dallas Fort Worth Area, Almost all of California and Washington State, etc) have the top of the line systems often driven by FOIS.  For Subscription to work especially the Phone home systems they use now. The Connection has to be almost perfect 24 hours a day. The least glitch in you connection and your deactivated. And without a Connection you have an expensive Door Stop. I see these sudden deactivation issues all the time both at Adobe and to some extent about office365 at MS.

Adobe don't take into consideration these problems and therefore unless you live in the right area and have tons of money, you are left out.

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