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Searching forums is a pain

Explorer ,
Oct 23, 2009

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I am not sure why they changed it since it worked fine, and now it is a real pain to try and search a specific forum such as Indesign. It looks like you have to click on 'options' and scroll down the list to select the forum, which is *very difficult* in the tiny scroll box.

I am surprised a company who obviously puts a lot of thought into design of their products would have such an ill conceived feature. 

or am I missing something?

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Searching forums is a pain

Explorer ,
Oct 23, 2009

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I am not sure why they changed it since it worked fine, and now it is a real pain to try and search a specific forum such as Indesign. It looks like you have to click on 'options' and scroll down the list to select the forum, which is *very difficult* in the tiny scroll box.

I am surprised a company who obviously puts a lot of thought into design of their products would have such an ill conceived feature. 

or am I missing something?

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Oct 23, 2009 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Oct 23, 2009

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Maybe you are missing all the previous threads complaining of the search function? And the very many threads complaining of the many deficiencies of these new forums?

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Oct 23, 2009 0
New Here ,
Oct 23, 2009

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Totally agree... I'm trying to find the thread I was in a few days ago and I'm still searching 20 min. later

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Oct 23, 2009 0
Guru ,
Oct 23, 2009

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Google the subject. It is much faster and will take you to the adobe thread.

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Oct 23, 2009 0
Explorer ,
Oct 23, 2009

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oops, well, to be honest I go so frustrated with search that I did not search that query...LOL

I hope they fix it--- a lot of us rely on this community for support.

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Oct 23, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Nov 14, 2009

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Google the subject.

Dec9,

I agree completely. The potential for boolean criteria are much greater, and the search takes fewer clicks/storkes.

Yes, I liked the old, but that is history and we cannot go back. Adaptation is the word of the day, or week, or month or year.

I just used the Adobe forum search today for the first time in months. It finally worked, but not without a lot of work on my part.

The Jive forum search should default to the assumption that one wishes to search in the forum, to which they are logged in and are active - it does not, and that is the first rub.

Luckily, I can still recall most of the important respondants to a thread, and limit on them. The first time I saw the criteria box of People, I got excited. Well, the excitement has faded.

The OP is not alone in this complaint.

Hunt

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Nov 14, 2009 0
Explorer ,
Oct 23, 2009

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I am surprised a company who obviously puts a lot of thought into design of their products would have such an ill conceived feature. 

The "Good Design" was a feature of the original ADOBE products — it was never part of anything that came out of Macromedia.

And these "redesigned" Forums are a direct result of the Adobe-Macromedia merger.

The redesign (in order to incorporate the old Macromedia Forums) and the decision to "Go cheaply" with off-the-peg Jive software has been a terrible mistake and is a huge loss of service to all of Adobe's customers.

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Oct 23, 2009 0
Explorer ,
Oct 23, 2009

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This is a terrible shame, I hope they are listening to this and that Adobe has more control over the macro guys and wins out because the forums used to be great.   Now they bite.

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Oct 23, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Oct 23, 2009

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Koolada wrote:

the forums used to be great.   Now they bite.

This is all that needs to be said really, this just says it all.

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Oct 23, 2009 0
Mentor ,
Oct 23, 2009

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Knock it off about the Macromedia. Most employees and all the customers of Macromedia didn't want the the merger, The only people that did was the BOD and shareholders.

The only reason Adobe wanted Macromedia was for Flash, DreamWeaver the best web design program ever created, and Fireworks. as for the other stuff they couldn't care less whether it existed or not.

I was one of those customers also I've owned versions of Acrobat since version 3. And Continue to Use it to this day with version 9. The Macromedia people were dragged kicking and screaming and gnashing of teeth over here. If it were up to the  MacroMedia people they would just as soon be separated as well.

But what's done is done, it can't be undone.

I'm sure if Adobe had not taken over Macromedia, MicroSoft would have, and you can bet if that had happened Flash would have become so proprietary so that only PC people people could use it. Or once they knew how it worked they would kill it. For something that doesn't work as well. I followed the DreamWeaver forum up until Macromedia became part of Adobe.  You would have thought that Armageddon was occurring.

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Oct 23, 2009 0
Enthusiast ,
Oct 23, 2009

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Ann Shelbourne wrote:

The "Good Design" was a feature of the original ADOBE products — it was never part of anything that came out of Macromedia.

And these "redesigned" Forums are a direct result of the Adobe-Macromedia merger.

The redesign (in order to incorporate the old Macromedia Forums) and the decision to "Go cheaply" with off-the-peg Jive software has been a terrible mistake and is a huge loss of service to all of Adobe's customers.

Hey... Hang on for a sec... you seem to have this thing about Macromedia... I'm no great fan per se but a few basic points:

1/ Adobe bought out Macromedia. Not the other way around.

2/ Freehand as a vector illustration program was streets ahead of Illustrator... And, despite CS4, is (though, long dead) still ahead in many capabilities and features... (I'm no expert on this but this is what i've gathered from users in the AI forum.)

3/ By the very nature of the product differentiation, i don't see how Macromedia users have adversely influenced these forums.

-->

4/ I have been visiting the PS forums since about 1999 or so, Dreamweaver since about the same time... Both these were primarily by NNTP. Illustrator, by web, since 2005. I must say, i have found all three equally helpful and friendly. And until this forum arrived, all equally prone to letting threads drift into concepts (philosophising) and experimentation... something these new forums seem to both lack and discourage (overtly and covertly).

FWIW...

S

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Oct 23, 2009 0
Explorer ,
Oct 23, 2009

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you seem to have this thing about Macromedia..

Too right!

I have hated every single GUI of theirs that I ever came across — and that includes both Dreamweaver and Freehand. And of course their Forums were the pits if you had to actually look at them in a Browser!

"Adobe bought out Macromedia. Not the other way around."

Indeed. But then Adobe acquired all the of those Macromedia employees and let them run havoc all over Adobe!

Look at what they did to the Adobe Exchange!

And the adoption of Jive and the deporable GUI of these Forums (complete with the attendant so-called "Community Experts") has the Macromedia stamp written all over them!

Freehand probably had the ugliest interface of all time. GoLive had a far better GUI than Dreamweaver and I still use it in preference to DW as much as possible.

I must say, i have found all three [web sites] equally helpful and friendly. And until this forum arrived, all equally prone to letting threads drift into concepts (philosophising) and experimentation... something these new forums seem to both lack and discourage (overtly and covertly).

The failure of the "Moderators" on these new Forums to let "threads drift into concepts (philosophising) and experimentation... " is deplorable and is direct indication of a narrow-minded, semi-educated mind-set that has crept in since we lost the wonderful Forum Hosts who used to look after the old Adobe Forums.

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Oct 23, 2009 0
Explorer ,
Oct 23, 2009

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Adobe makes such elegant programs. But if the forum is an indication, well, this is troubling....the fact that programs such as MS suite exist, which are beyond terrible, means that the possiblity is there for degradation if it is allowed.

Everyone should use Adobe programs such as Indesign to see how good software can be, and then they would know how bad other stuff is

Some in other camps would argue this is just bias to what you are used to using, but I don't buy that, Adobe is a well made excellent product -- you cannot deny that. And we depend on that and expect it.

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Oct 23, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Oct 25, 2009

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To come back to the original topic of this thread...

Maybe the forum search wouldn't be so terrible if there were any instructions on how to use it.  But I found nothing; nada!

What I found out myself if I want to search a specific forum or subforum, I put in the forum name, together with the search terms.  Linked with plus + signs.  E.g. from a search I did just a few minutes ago:

Adobe +Reader +EULA

Works nicely.  But an official description of the search function would really help a lot!

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Oct 25, 2009 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Oct 26, 2009

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pwillener wrote:

I put in the forum name, together with the search terms.  Linked with plus + signs.  E.g. from a search I did just a few minutes ago:
Adobe +Reader +EULA

Works nicely.  But an official description of the search function would really help a lot!

˙ʇɐd dıʇ ʇɐǝɹƃ

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Oct 26, 2009 0
Explorer ,
Oct 27, 2009

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Thanks for the tip, although a larger issue is that it was better before, I have not explored this new forum in depth but this feature is a regression instead of  improvement which is counter to what we are generally used to as software users...

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Oct 27, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Oct 27, 2009

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Hi Koolada

Indeed searching the forums can be a painful process. I totally agree with that.

However, I thought I'd share something that totally shocked and surprised me yesterday. I had viewed this thread and was about to try one of the suggestions mentioned. More specifically, I typed my search term an followed it with a space and a +Captivate (My Forum Name). What really shocked the socks off of me was that for some reason, even before I clicked the magnifying glass to perform the initial search, up popped a list of threads. Very near the top was the exact thread I was seeking!

That was a pleasant surprise.

Cheers... Rick

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Oct 27, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Oct 27, 2009

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Works nicely.  But an official description of the search function would really help a lot!

ever tried clicking on this button?:P

Untitled-1.png

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Oct 27, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Oct 27, 2009

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Zeno Bokor wrote:


ever tried clicking on this button?:P

Untitled-1.png

Well, this is very interesting - would you care to share where you found that, and what it contains?

"My" forum search only looks like this

forumsearch.png

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Oct 27, 2009 0
Enthusiast ,
Oct 27, 2009

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It comes on the second page (first page of results). After you hit the search button, the next page, just below the search box.

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Oct 27, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Oct 27, 2009

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Thank you!

For once I have to admit that this was very clever of Jive - very cleverly hidden!  Why not put these search options on the main search field?

The Search Tips are here: http://forums.adobe.com/search-tips.jspa

And in the Advanced Search ("more options") we can actually select which forum to search, as well as user names, and even the time frame.  Not so bad, in the end... if you know it!

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Oct 27, 2009 0
Enthusiast ,
Oct 28, 2009

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pwillener wrote:

Thank you!

For once I have to admit that this was very clever of Jive - very cleverly hidden!  Why not put these search options on the main search field?

Welcome ...

And quite... The old forums had the option of an advanced search up front. And the drop down to select the various forums really sucks... It's very hard to find a particular forum...

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Oct 28, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Oct 28, 2009

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To be fair, the old search function was pretty shoddy and much complained about. As before, at the bottom of the page is 'search powered by Google' - a genuine Google search box on the page would be much more useful, it can be limited to the current site.


One way or another, the owners of the 'flagship' web design application should be showing how it's done.

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Oct 28, 2009 0
Guru ,
Oct 28, 2009

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Maybe someone from the Microsoft webdesign software group will fix it then.

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Oct 28, 2009 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Oct 28, 2009

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As I remember things, the search function of the old forums used to work fairly well. That is, until it began being "improved". For example, one easy way to find a message of mine when details about it became fuzzy was to perform a search for my own name. This was very effective when results were presented in strict chronological  order, and with just my last post in each thread. This convenience was abruptly ended when this was changed to a (to me) random order, excepting that all my messages in a thread were grouped in chronological order. As I participated very actively in more than one very long discussion (300 or most posts), this meant getting very long and useless lists of closely related messages of mine.


And yes, I fully agree: the search function was really bad in the last times of the fair forums... At least for me.

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Oct 28, 2009 0
Community Beginner ,
Oct 28, 2009

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Just adding my voice as to the unmitigated suckiness of Adobe forums now.

Here's a thought: isn't it a best practice for search interfaces to let the user limit their search range *before* searching? So users aren't forced to sift through a pile of irrelevant results? I thought that was pretty much an established standard in UI design for forums these days. Apparently Adobe doesn't think so.

I agree with Ann. What we're seeing now is a sign of the merge with Macromedia.

But it's not because the Macromedia side corrupted Adobe -- it's because Adobe doesn't have any competition to worry about now.

I think Adobe is starting to slowly develop that inevitable rot of monopolies; the one where their attitude toward customers goes: "Hey. We're the king and you're, well, not."

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Oct 28, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Oct 28, 2009

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Hi there Digleif

I would tend to disagree with your viewpoint. Perhaps it is that way, but I personally don't think so.

Certainly the Macromedia acquisition plays a role in things, but I don't believe it causes any sort of monopoly to occur. Sure, it does play big in the assorted tool markets, but after all, there are other tools out there that do what the former Macromedia tools do.

Here's where I see the Macromedia acquisition having a role. Adobe had X number of products. X number of forums to support users of those products. They acquire Macromedia and have a sudden influx of new users with their own forums to manage. Adobe now needs to find some sort of middle ground that will allow them a single forum type to manage that accommodates ALL users of ALL products because it's painful to try managing and maintaining two different code bases for forums.

Personally, I'm wondering if *ANY* forum software out there would possibly manage to scale to the levels Adobe needs. After all, they have 80+ products. Assuming one forum instance for each product, well, hopefully one can see the issue here.

I know others in this forum aren't too happy that the change occurred. They will say that what was there before was working just dandy. From their vantage point, perhaps it was. And if that were truly the case, wouldn't you think Adobe would have simply migrated the former Macromedia forums into the Adobe format? That would seem to be the cheapest solution. So to me, logic says that the other forums had likely reached capacity. Otherwise, why go to all the expense and trouble of installing a totally different system?

Cheers... Rick

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Oct 28, 2009 0
Mentor ,
Oct 28, 2009

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Captiv8r wrote:

Hi there Digleif

I would tend to disagree with your viewpoint. Perhaps it is that way, but I personally don't think so.

Certainly the Macromedia acquisition plays a role in things, but I don't believe it causes any sort of monopoly to occur. Sure, it does play big in the assorted tool markets, but after all, there are other tools out there that do what the former Macromedia tools do.

Maybe for PC Platform but not for the Mac Platform. The only other player of note for Graphics is Corel and the are PC only.  as for PDF there is only Acrobat. there are two or three small PDF items but they don't do much and not relablity. As For a Photoshop equivelent there is nothing on Mac that does everything PS does.

Here's where I see the Macromedia acquisition having a role. Adobe had X number of products. X number of forums to support users of those products. They acquire Macromedia and have a sudden influx of new users with their own forums to manage. Adobe now needs to find some sort of middle ground that will allow them a single forum type to manage that accommodates ALL users of ALL products because it's painful to try managing and maintaining two different code bases for forums.

Personally, I'm wondering if *ANY* forum software out there would possibly manage to scale to the levels Adobe needs. After all, they have 80+ products. Assuming one forum instance for each product, well, hopefully one can see the issue here.

I know others in this forum aren't too happy that the change occurred. They will say that what was there before was working just dandy. From their vantage point, perhaps it was. And if that were truly the case, wouldn't you think Adobe would have simply migrated the former Macromedia forums into the Adobe format? That would seem to be the cheapest solution. So to me, logic says that the other forums had likely reached capacity. Otherwise, why go to all the expense and trouble of installing a totally different system?

They could simply have resubscribed the macromedia people to the WebX Forums instead of trying to merge them The bigest problem with the merge was a problem of destroying sign in cookies in such way that we could n';t sign. one you could get in both sides could enjoy WebX.  They could have invested as much or less in improving upgrading webX.

But with the system we have now instead of being signed in permanently. we have to sign in two, three, four times a day. we have 404 erors pop up now and then. We've had one complete melt down in which we couldn't even get in for 18 hours. Ther are portions of the system going down almost every day .  Just day before yesterday the singon/login on server died and if you weree own you could reply and if you were not on then you couldn't get in That was for an hour. The we have these relative starangers being moderators. Heck the one we have for this one has less points  than I do. and according to most folks here I am a peon. (i don't two cents for the points - but if the people coming in were to base how they would ask a question on the points I would be more likely asked questions. OR based on how many post and how long I've been on forums wI ould still smke him.)

Cheers... Rick

Also a decent forum as soon as improvement are found to be bug free (or relatively so) it should be done within minutes of becoming gold. Not wait 3 , 6 9 months. With the old webx system if several people complained of something being broken. it was fixed (patched in days, sometimes hours of the complaints.

(Please note information is given by an Experienced User of Acrobat. I am not an employee of Adobe.)

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Oct 28, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Oct 28, 2009

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Captiv8r wrote:

Personally, I'm wondering if *ANY* forum software out there would possibly manage to scale to the levels Adobe needs. After all, they have 80+ products.

Try Microsoft.  Their NNTP-based support groups (I haven't counted how many there are, but it must be thousands) work very well.  They also provide a HTTP-based copy for newer users that do not understand the NNTP concept.

I participate regularly in some of the MS groups, and they are very easy to use.  Search on the newsgroup side is of course provided by the users' NNTP client, in my case Thunderbird, so it can be tailored to ones taste/needs.

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Oct 28, 2009 0
Mentor ,
Oct 28, 2009

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I follow the Macintosh.Office.Word, and Macintosh.Office.Excel groups. And MS has problems with their HTML based groups. whatever is written there is supposed to show up on the NNTP groups at the same time. Often the connection I broken for months at a time. evidently they have Jive's cousins running their HTML group,  it stays broken more that  it works. The NNTP servers just keep trucking. They haven't had an outage on NNTP in ages.

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Oct 28, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Oct 28, 2009

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At Microsoft, it is really mostly the NNTP groups that work well.  Not so much for technical reasons, but the users' usage.  People on the HTML side post questions, but most never bother to check for answers.  So they post the question again.  And again.

The NNTP concept, old as it is, still works well in 2009!

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Oct 28, 2009 0
Community Beginner ,
Oct 29, 2009

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My 2 cents is that these forums, no matter how they got here are the worst forums I visit with regards to software implementation.

Maybe they are overly broad or the product list is too large to use forum software that seems to be successful on other websites, I don't know the details.

But as a user, I don't come here quite as much because the pages are really slow to load and the search feature is quite a joke.

For example, most every other forum I am a part of has a search feature per forum.  So you are reading posts in a forum and want to search for an answer, you go to the search bar and only get results from the forum you are in.

Why is that not a option here?

Just seems like the makers of the software don't really know how we use forums.

You want people to search a lot so redundant posts don't continue to show up.

Whatever.  I have yelled into the abyss, now I am happy.

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Oct 29, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Oct 28, 2009

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We were told the WebX forums had reached a point where no additional forums could be added.


Instead of leaving things alone as they were, they thought Jive could deal with the combined load and pulled the plug on WebX.


Hence the collapse of the real Adobe community.


Unfortunately the people up there that matter probably aren't even aware of the sinking ship we are on. 

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Oct 28, 2009 0
Explorer ,
Oct 28, 2009

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We were told the WebX forums had reached a point where no additional forums could be added.


Isn't the truth much more likely to be that WebX said that additional Forums could not be handled … until Adobe paid for the additional costs for hardware and staffing that such expansion would entail?

Either:

someone at Adobe stood to gain from the adoption of Jive;

or the bean-counters were allowed to control a purchase that they knew nothing about;

or the Macromedia people inveigled their way into the process and produced the sort of GUI and software that would mesh with their ideology (as was demonstrated so clearly in their previous abysmal Forums).

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Oct 28, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Oct 28, 2009

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Sorry Ann – I think it's better to stick to facts.


I try to avoid speculation – it is so often wide of the mark.

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Oct 28, 2009 0
Explorer ,
Oct 28, 2009

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I am not sure that we were ever told the TRUE facts?!

But I don't think that what I surmise to have happened is too far from the mark?

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Oct 28, 2009 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Oct 28, 2009

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Based on what? (I'm with John on this).

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Oct 28, 2009 0
Explorer ,
Oct 28, 2009

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Based purely on my gut-feeling because if none of what I surmise to have happened did in fact happen there is, IMHO, no rational explantion for Adobe adopting the tack that they did!

Corporations and their personnel often have different agendas.

I just don't think that I am too far off the mark … but we will probably never learn the truth because too many careers are at stake.

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Oct 28, 2009 0
Contributor ,
Oct 31, 2009

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John Joslin wrote:

Sorry Ann – I think it's better to stick to facts.


I try to avoid speculation – it is so often wide of the mark.

I could be wrong on this, but I do believe that I read on the forums (the Lounge?) that Adobe would have had to pay WebX more money to upgrade the borads.  They felt the cost to upgrade wasn't what they wanted to pay, so they searched for an alternative.  I believe WebX could have continued to be used, in a more upgraded fashion.

It would be nice if somoone specifically in the know would set this record straight.

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Oct 31, 2009 0
Guru ,
Oct 31, 2009

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Adobe can't even send refunds due to thier customers so why would they pay extra for a WebX upgrade?

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Oct 31, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Nov 01, 2009

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if I may add my two words...


your profile is your friend, everything is there:

posts that you have made,

discussions that you have opened, (under your stuff)

also History page

Search/advanced Search

recent activities,

also if you mouse over your avatar and holdit for second or two you get list of recent activities there too,

if you dont want an extra click, you can directly go to your discussions from your stuff,

I dont see how old forum, which did not even allow code embed, can be missed

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Guru ,
Nov 01, 2009

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Ya, the search function works so well it is faster and more accurate to google.

Plus what big "D" said too.

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Contributor ,
Nov 01, 2009

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levancho wrote:

if I may add my two words...


your profile is your friend, everything is there:

posts that you have made,

discussions that you have opened, (under your stuff)

also History page

Search/advanced Search

recent activities,

also if you mouse over your avatar and holdit for second or two you get list of recent activities there too,

if you dont want an extra click, you can directly go to your discussions from your stuff,

I dont see how old forum, which did not even allow code embed, can be missed

but you don't understand, we don't really want or need the "fluff" items, we *do* want the search to work properly though.

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Nov 01, 2009

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I must second Hopper. The search function of the fair forums did deteriorate in the later times. However, bad as it had become, it was much better than what we have now. And we were repeatedly told, too many months ago, that things would improve once past the initial implementation chores of the new forums...

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Nov 01, 2009 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Nov 10, 2009

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Just trying to find out what happens after message 48 when there are recently deleted messages...

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Nov 10, 2009 0