The 11-16-09 Forum Maintenance Did Not Work

[#1]

Adobe had a gold mine. Their product fora filled the gap that their outsourced T/S and C/S were no longer filling.

Many users realized that there was a much greater liklihood that almost any problem, with any Adobe program, could be solved by the fora, and by the users. I have even recommended such for years, even back when Adobe T/S was a different animal.

Now, as of Black Monday, Nov. 16, 2009, with the "maintenance" work, these fora are nearly useless. Many of us have lost the ability to use the "camera" icon to attach an image to a post. The "automatic" line break is a real problem. It now comes long after several lines of text have been typed, and is never where any editor would place it. The "block quotes," that only work every third, or fourth time, all contribute to users not wanting to bother with helping all the other users.

This has become a very bad joke by Adobe. I am considering just giving up helping others, and letting them contact Adobe T/S for everything. Let all the users deal with Malasia, or wherever, and we'll just be done. If Adobe and Jive cannot fix these faux pas, then they deserve the

derision

that they get. [Don't you love those line breaks?]

I am tired of having to wear out my Backspace key to fix this stuff. I am tired of not being able to do a block quotation. I am tired of not being able to attach an image, of approved size and type, that the OP can see, without waiting days for it to go through queue. I am tired of being hampered trying to help Adobe users, when I have the answer. I will just tell them to contact Adobe T/S, wherever it's located this week, and to also send a Bug Report for every problem. This has gone from bad to worse and is just not acceptable.

I do not know what the Nov. 16, 2009 maintenance was supposed to fix, but it was as big a mistake as the forum changeover. Someone's head should roll on this one.

You can sign me "someone, who has a lot to offer, but is getting fed up with these fora."

Adobe, you had a gold mine here, but are not only turning your back to the potential, but are driving away the folk, who can fill the gap left by an ill-advised move of T/S to some cheap, country in the 4th World. At some point, the script, "uninstall/reinstall" runs thin.

<Rant Mode OFF>

Hunt

PS - I realize that these words will not reach Adobe. I post that to most rants in the product fora. I know that the poor MOD's in this forum will have to come in and calm me down. That should not be their jobs. They have other, and more important, jobs to do. Still, this has become such a bad joke that I cannot contain myself any longer. BTW - I started with the Adobe fora, long before the Internet. Back in those days, it was only NTTP, and Al Gore had yet to invent the Internet. I ain't no newbie at this. Don't let the 2002 start date fool you.

[#2]

Adobe had a gold mine. Their product fora filled the gap that their outsourced T/S and C/S were no longer filling.

Many users realized that there was a much greater liklihood that almost any problem, with any Adobe program, could be solved by the fora, and by the users. I have even recommended such for years, even back when Adobe T/S was a different animal.

Now, as of Black Monday, Nov. 16, 2009, with the "maintenance" work, these fora are nearly useless. Many of us have lost the ability to use the "camera" icon to attach an image to a post. The "automatic" line break is a real problem. It now comes long after several lines of text have been typed, and is never where any editor would place it. The "block quotes," that only work every third, or fourth time, all contribute to users not wanting to bother with helping all the other users.

This has become a very bad joke by Adobe. I am considering just giving up helping others, and letting them contact Adobe T/S for everything. Let all the users deal with Malasia, or wherever, and we'll just be done. If Adobe and Jive cannot fix these faux pas, then they deserve the

derision

that they get. [Don't you love those line breaks?]

I am tired of having to wear out my Backspace key to fix this stuff. I am tired of not being able to do a block quotation. I am tired of not being able to attach an image, of approved size and type, that the OP can see, without waiting days for it to go through queue. I am tired of being hampered trying to help Adobe users, when I have the answer. I will just tell them to contact Adobe T/S, wherever it's located this week, and to also send a Bug Report for every problem. This has gone from bad to worse and is just not acceptable.

I do not know what the Nov. 16, 2009 maintenance was supposed to fix, but it was as big a mistake as the forum changeover. Someone's head should roll on this one.

You can sign me "someone, who has a lot to offer, but is getting fed up with these fora."

Adobe, you had a gold mine here, but are not only turning your back to the potential, but are driving away the folk, who can fill the gap left by an ill-advised move of T/S to some cheap, country in the 4th World. At some point, the script, "uninstall/reinstall" runs thin.

<Rant Mode OFF>

Hunt

PS - I realize that these words will not reach Adobe. I post that to most rants in the product fora. I know that the poor MOD's in this forum will have to come in and calm me down. That should not be their jobs. They have other, and more important, jobs to do. Still, this has become such a bad joke that I cannot contain myself any longer. BTW - I started with the Adobe fora, long before the Internet. Back in those days, it was only NTTP, and Al Gore had yet to invent the Internet. I ain't no newbie at this. Don't let the 2002 start date fool you.

[#3]

the_wine_snob wrote:

-------------------snip-------------------

<Rant Mode OFF>

Hunt

PS - I realize that these words will not reach Adobe. I post that to most rants in the product fora. I know that the poor MOD's in this forum will have to come in and calm me down. That should not be their jobs. They have other, and more important, jobs to do. Still, this has become such a bad joke that I cannot contain myself any longer. BTW - I started with the Adobe fora, long before the Internet. Back in those days, it was only NTTP, and Al Gore had yet to invent the Internet. I ain't no newbie at this. Don't let the 2002 start date fool you.

Don't expect our current Mod to calm you down. He doesn't care.

[#4]

Phillip,

Is that you? Hardly recognized you.

Now, I do not know the MOD's here. I have had little interaction. I do know many in the product fora, as I often communicate via PM, trying to help them help others. They do a great job, BTW.

I often get written off as an "Adobe apologist" around these parts, but this has become absurd.

You are possibly correct. I have little experience here, I have to admit. Maybe something can come of it, or maybe not. Personally, I am very heavily invested in Adobe via their software, and also via my stock portfolio. Maybe I should have gone with other stocks?

It is just so very frustrating to try and help other users, and have the tools crumble in my hands!

Thanks for the comment, and take care in the "Mid-Atlantic Region." At least you got your camera back. I am still waiting for that one. Have a crabcake for me,OK?

Appreciated,

Hunt

[#5]

Most of the mods would likely agree... but prefer lemonade to grousing ad nauseum.(Not applicable to the current discussion, yet)

I'll not let my mood be altered tho... in the midst of a discussion of music et al that influenced us as teens... and trawling YouTube, currently listening to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntm1YfehK7U&feature=related

[#6]

[#7]

the_wine_snob wrote on 11/23/2009 4:44 AM:

Now, as of Black Monday, Nov. 16, 2009, with the "maintenance" work, these fora are nearly useless. Many of us have lost the ability to use the "camera" icon to attach an image to a post.

Many? I have seen one report of it, and all the response it got from

others was that it did work http://forums.adobe.com/message/2399618

If you are aware of other people with that problem, tell them to report

in that thread. And have them add some useful information, such as which

browser they use, whether they experience it with other browsers, from

other computers, the actual error message etc.

[#8]

In the case of myself I have the sudd

en automatic returns. And I have to everytime I restart my browser I have to adjust my profile so my name shows rather then my Username.

I am Mac Platform OSX.4.11

My Browser of shoice is SeaMonkey (no snide remarks from the peanut gallery please - use to be the Mozilla all in one or Communicato, or back far enough Netscape Naviagtor 3.0.1.a.gold)

But I have test on the other Browsers:

FireFox

Camino

iCab

OmniWeb

Opera

Safari

The is no modern version if IE Mac's

FireFox, Camino, SeaMonkey use Gecko engine

Safari uses Webkit

iCab I think is webkit, Opera for Mac might be gecko based.

So in using 7 different Browsers Its a problem with the code, not the browsers.

Is this information you want JV?

[#9]

jochemd wrote:

Many? I have seen one report of it, and all the response it got from

others was that it did work http://forums.adobe.com/message/2399618

The following forums:

1/ Illustrator

2/ Photshop / Windows

Have numerous threads where images are 'Queued'. Just browse through and see for yourself.

[#10]

shunithD wrote on 11/23/2009 5:12 PM:

[#11]

Hi all

For what it's worth, I'm seeing endlessly queued attachments as well as some folks reporting an inability to make the camera icon work for them.

Personally I've not encountered these issues and hopefully I won't. But thought I'd mention it.

Cheers.. Rick

[#12]

shunithD wrote on 11/23/2009 5:12 PM:

jochemd wrote :

>> Many? I have seen one report of it, and all the response it got from

>> others was that it did work http://forums.adobe.com/message/2399618#2399618

The following forums:

1/ Illustrator

2/ Photshop / Windows

Have numerous threads where images are 'Queued'. Just browse through and see for yourself.

Which is related to the "Camera Icon" how?

[#13]

jochemd wrote:

Which is related to the "Camera Icon" how?

I don't know... you should know. You're the Mod leaping around here demanding examples... i pointed out places you could see for yourself. Now, why ask me? Do your own homework. I'm just a plain, simple 'user'. OK? Get it?

And, my suggestion is, if you don't want to make the effort, tell Adobe you don't want to be a 'MOD' any longer. With position, comes responsibility....

[#14]

Oh! And, BTW you, yourself, have pointed out there's a problem with uploading images...

In this thread, right here, which is, conveniently, locked:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/2411449#2411449

[#15]

For what it's worth, I'm seeing endlessly queued attachments as well as some folks reporting an inability to make the camera icon work for them.

Rick,

Thank you for the validation. I would assume that there are many users, who now have the inability to use the "camera" icon, but most do not know to post here.

Appreciated,

Hunt

[#16]

Hunt,

this issue didn't only start on 11-16-09 (Black Monday), but way back in March (April?) when the forum switched over from WebX to Jive.  *That* was the biggest mistake by Adobe, with regards to the forum.

Jochem,

even if it's only a handful of users, if it's the *regular* and *helpful* users, it's a very bad implementation.  Despite your pleas for more information, many of us are just getting tired of feeling like guinea pigs and being treated even worse.    Adobe needs to fix their forums, not the users.  ...  not sure how many users they will have if they keep this track record up ...

[#17]

greenjumpyone wrote on 11/23/2009 5:23 PM:

Adobe needs to fix their forums, not the users.

So show me it is a problem in the forums, and not a browser or client

computer problem.

[#18]

[Self-deleted]

[#19]

jochemd wrote:

greenjumpyone wrote on 11/23/2009 5:23 PM:

Adobe needs to fix their forums, not the users.

So show me it is a problem in the forums, and not a browser or client

computer problem.

O    M    G ....

these forums are very badly messed up and you know that Jochem.  You, yourself, have stated the shortcomings of them.  You have taken time and effort to offer solutions, which have gone largely ignored.  And you can actually write the above comment with a straight face??

<shakes head in total amazement>

[#20]

jochemd wrote:

greenjumpyone wrote on 11/23/2009 5:23 PM:

Adobe needs to fix their forums, not the users.

So show me it is a problem in the forums, and not a browser or client

computer problem.

I've indicated the problems I have in Previous post in this thread spans 7 different Browsers, a Mix of Gecko, and webkit.  I've also indicated what computer Type and what OS.

[#21]

And you can actually write the above comment with a straight face??

how do you know he wasn't chuckling maniacally whilst crossing his eyes and sticking his tongue out?

[#22]

Never mind.

Deleted by me.

[#23]

jochemd wrote:

greenjumpyone wrote on 11/23/2009 5:23 PM:

Adobe needs to fix their forums, not the users.

So show me it is a problem in the forums, and not a browser or client

computer problem.

This pretty much sums up the problem in the Jive forum.

We as users have been pointing out problems in the Jive forum during the Beta test, and continually since its implementation in April.

What have we got for our efforts?  Quit Whining!

[#24]

Sure. The last 'problem' I 'fixed' was by telling somebody to clear his browser cache. The second to last was by getting somebody to uninstall a Firefox plugin.

If some people always get a problem, and everybody else never get that problem, there is a differences between them. In the case of this environment, as soon as the some reaches 25% I am willing to blame Jive without fursther investigation. But if it is just a few people, the difference is more likely then not on the client side and also the place where the bug is.

[#25]

always and never .... *nothing* is always and never.

Jochem,  as Curt Y pointed out, and you know very well, there have been ongoing issues since the very beginning.  You have even told us to stop reiterating the issues, because we all know what they are!

Sure an issue or two might be associated with a browser cache or plugin, but the vast majority of issues are shared by more than one person, across different OSs and different browsers.

Quit trying to make it seem like we are simply whinners here.... most of us have been around the block a time or two and know a crappy software when we see one.

[#26]

jochemd wrote:

So show me it is a problem in the forums, and not a browser or client

computer problem.

Seriously, are you an Ostrich? I've given you two forums to look through where messages are queued and queued and you still ask ridiculous questions?

[#27]

It's because he doesn't know the answer. He likes leading users on to a chase, or refer to something that only a Mod can see and not a regular user. He figures you will eventually give up and drop the issue and when you repost because it wasn't solved he will delete your posts or ban your user account.

[#28]

greenjumpyone wrote on 11/23/2009 7:27 PM:

Sure an issue or two might be associated with a browser cache or plugin, but the vast majority of issues are shared by more than one person, across different OSs and different browsers.

Which is why I let the vast majority of issues be handled by Adobe and

Jive. The only two issues I am interested in are not being able to log

out from the forums and this "Camera Icon" issue. Not being able to log

out because I wrote that FAQ and I try to perfect it, and this "Camera

Icon" thing because the pattern of its occurrence is fishy.

[#29]

shunithD wrote on 11/23/2009 7:28 PM:

I've given you two forums to look through where messages are queued and

queued and you still ask ridiculous questions?

And because "images are queued" since Saturday morning there must be a

causal connection to the "camera icon" that has been broken for

the_wine_snob since Tuesday.

[#30]

this issue didn't only start on 11-16-09 (Black Monday), but way back in March (April?) when the forum switched over from WebX to Jive

Hopper,

For me, it began on Black Monday. Before, I could use the camera icon to attach images, so long as they were withing the specs., stated. Now - only error messages.

I am not insinuating that you are incorrect, only that my observations differ. Now, I am also not arguing that many other things did not change with the forum changeover. I have commented on many of those changes, in other threads. A few comments good, and more bad.

Thanks,

Hunt

[#31]

I've indicated the problems I have in Previous post in this thread spans 7 different Browsers, a Mix of Gecko, and webkit.  I've also indicated what computer Type and what OS.

Holy moley Phillip. That is a list, and it dosen't even take them "seamonkies" into the equation. I thought that I had a bunch of browsers on my workstaion for testing Dreamweaver, but you have me beat by a bunch!

OTOH, you DO have your camera icon, out there in the Mid-Atlantic, and I do not in land-locked Arizona!

Maybe I need to move West to CA - OTOH, maybe not.

Hunt

[#32]

Deleted by me.

Dec9,

Sorry that I missed this post. Your comments are always right-on, and in the product fora, I've always appreciated reading them.

Hunt

[#33]

Jochemd,

Since Black Monday, I have now deleted cookies, cleaned the cache and deleted all Temp Internet files 4x. I am on IE7.0.5xxx.x, on an XP-Pro SP3 laptop. All of the problems mentioned in my original post have continued, totally unabated.

If you have a suggestion for me, please share it. I will try about anything now.

Please note that, related to my OP, everything worked perfectly on Sunday PM, and well into the day on Black Monday. Since then, the issues that I outlined haver been present, and have not changed. The issue is not on my part, though I will attempt to correct anything on my end.

The pleasure of helping others in these fora has been greatly diminished. I'd guess that about 10% of my posts used to include screen-caps, to direct the various posters, to the correct Panel, switch, Tool, or fly-out menu, to solve their problem. Now, all of my screen-caps have to go to queue. I have about 1500 of them in my Adobe folder, and add more, as the questions come.

I can live with having to do Block Quotations a half-dozen times, and can Backspace out of those line breaks, but my camera icon is part of my life. Over in the PrE forum, I posted on Saturday afternoon, and that image just came out of queue tonight! Think about some poor Adobe user, lookng for the fix to their problem, with maybe a family event, at which they are hoping to present a DVD, and my answer has been in queue for 2.5 days.

We do, what we do, with little thanks, and no remuneration, and it should behove Adobe to help us, help other users - ones who have given Adobe their $, and only want their program to function. We, the forum subscribers, can often help them, and save the bacon. That is something that the current Adobe T/S cannot do. Maybe next quarter, but not yet.

Please help me to help others in the product fora.

Hunt

[#34]

this "Camera Icon" thing because the pattern of its occurrence is fishy.

I would have used other language, but then I was under sail for most of my youth. That language would deserve to be removed from this, and any other forum.

"Fishy," is not the whole of it. I have asked in many product fora, and it seems that the "fix" has been a "rolling-fix." Users, who responded to me, from the Souther Hemisphere, never had an issue. Most of them have also stayed logged-in through Black Monday. One was actually able to post DURING the maintenance time! In other parts of the glove, some lost the camera icon, but then later got it back. Some, like me, have yet to get it back.

When Phillip, and several others, reported that they were able to use it, I took heart, thinking that it was a rolling-fix. For me, it has not yet reached Phoenix, AZ, USA. The closest that I could find was Santa Fe, NM, USA.

Why did some never loose it? Why did some, who did loose it, get it back? I have not a clue, but wish that Arizona would get it back, at least on my systems. I have a lot of work to do, to help Adobe users, with problems.

Thanks for looking into this,

Hunt

[#35]

Jochemd,

One of the reasons that I use, and recommend that users use, the camera icon, is because of the potential for an image to stay in queue. It has been that way, since the forum changeover. I can understand that Adobe would want to control the Attachments, if done from the bottom-left of the editing screen, as more files types can be uploaded that way. The camera icon is more limited, and is used for approved graphics, and is part of the post.

Staying in queue, has been part of the other attachment method, from day one. The camera icon gets around that, and includes the image in the post, where it's more easily seen.

Hunt

[#36]

the_wine_snob wrote on 11/24/2009 5:56 AM:

If you have a suggestion for me, please share it. I will try about anything now.

Head over to http://forums.adobe.com/message/2399618 and tell us:

- whether you experience the issue with other browsers;

- whether you experience the issue from other computers;

- what the actual error message is;

- when the error occurs (when you click the icon? after the upload?).

Get other people who have the same issue to report the same.

[#37]

The test forum does not appear to allow the testing of image posting.

Neither from the camera icon nor from the attachment link.

But both work here from FF3.5.5

[#38]

I to use DreamWeaver as well. For years I maintained a website for an Electronics Association. Then I created a Website which I still maintain. I find iCab extremely useful it has a version of the W3C validator built in.

[#39]

I am not insinuating that you are incorrect, only that my observations differ. Now, I am also not arguing that many other things did not change with the forum changeover. I have commented on many of those changes, in other threads. A few comments good, and more bad.

Thanks,

Hunt

Hunt,

No problem!  I was not entirely clear in my post.  The camera icon issue is just another in a series of symptoms of just how bad this entire implementation has gone.  I did take this one issue and globalize (is that a word?  ) it.

[#40]

greenjumpyone wrote:

... and globalize (is that a word?  ) it.

It would seem that it is :

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/globalize

[#41]

Jochemd,

Thank you, and I will do so from my workstation tomorrow (Nov 25, 2009).

If, as has been mentioned, the test forum does not work, then I'll navigate to this thread for a test.

Depending on an AM meeting, I might miss the above time frame by a day, but have nothing scheduled for Thanksgiving (in the US), in the AM, and can access the workstation.

Appreciated,

Hunt

[#42]

Many? I have seen one report of it

Jochmed,

Thanks for the response. My statement is based on the number of users on the Premiere, Premiere Elements, Encore and PS fora, who have lost this capability. Now, whether they post here, is not known to me. I see their comments in the product fora.

I have posted here, because I know that that this is the place for forum discussion. I do not know if they do, especially the PrE group.

Going back a few days, there were more here, who could not use the camera icon. My observations were that users in the Souther Hemisphere, OZ, NZ, etc. could. Some seemed to have never lost it. Several users here reported that they had lost it, but then the reports came in, that it was being restored for them. I surmised that it might be a West to East thing, and that maybe it would make its way across the US to me in AZ. I speculated that I might be the last, as I was close to the Eastern boundry of CA, USA, and hence San Jose. To date (as of about 8:00PM AZT - now MTZ), I still do not have it, and it does not make a difference if I am using JPEG, or PNG (both approved formats), and the size is as small as 40x40 pixels. I get denied.

Here's my error message for a JPEG, and the second is the file that I tried to use the "camera' icon to attach.

Hope that this helps,

Hunt

[#43]

Hi there,

Just wanted to pass along some potentially useful information/thoughts to you...

I am tired of not being able to attach an image, of approved size and type, that the OP can see, without waiting days for it to go through queue.

<img src=http://www.spellworks.net/images/kinsecse.jpg>

While you might not be able to use the camera thingie, if you 'insert raw html' you can still insert an image using the <img src= > tag; it's not as convenient (as you must reference an uploaded image) but better than waiting for days.

I am tired of not being able to do a block quotation.

Yes, that block quotation feature is a PITA; a more usable alternative is to use the 'indent' available, as I have done.

Just wanted to pass these two things along to you, as you seem genuinely frustrated by not being able to help out.

My apologies in advance if this post gets deleted.

[#44]

My apologies in advance if this post gets deleted.

Kami,

I would hope that they do not, as you are pointing out ways around whatever has happened, since Black Monday.

For me, I just try the Block Quotation, until it takes. So what, if some of my keys are wearing out...

Thank you for your comments.

Hunt

[#45]

Now, this isn't exactly chronological order, is it?