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Typeface choice gone

Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 12, 2012

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The Advanced Editor window has experienced some changes today. One of the unwanted ones is that the hability to choose typefaces is gone, or extremely well hidden.

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Typeface choice gone

Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 12, 2012

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The Advanced Editor window has experienced some changes today. One of the unwanted ones is that the hability to choose typefaces is gone, or extremely well hidden.

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Sep 12, 2012 0
Sep 13, 2012

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I don't know about you, but I think this a great improvement. Typographic consistancy greatly improves readability in documents.

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Sep 13, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 13, 2012

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It is if the font used is easily legible on screen at the small size employed in these forums. Which isn't the case of our new Adobe font.

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Sep 13, 2012 0
Sep 13, 2012

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Have you tried the page magnification? This can be done by pressing cmd/ctrl and the plus symbol.

I don't have a problem, but that's just my young eyes. I can definitely understand how many users could have an issue with this.

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Sep 13, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 13, 2012

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Font choice has been removed by the last forum "upgrade" last week.  But it seems that users can still play with fonts if they have enough imagination; see http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1065852

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Sep 13, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 13, 2012

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I object strongly to a site designed in such a way that it forces users to use workarounds to make it function decently. And yes, many of us have very old eyes for which this typeface/size presents problems. It shouldn't be our resposibility to correct for poor design and wrong decissions.

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Sep 13, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 13, 2012

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Pat, thanks, but see my message above.

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Sep 13, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 13, 2012

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I think the point of removing font choice is to make the forum look more uniform.  It doesn't help you if you can make your own post look more legible; other users' posts will still be different.

I for one am glad that users can no longer post technical questions in Comic Sans…

(But they can still color their post in pink, if they are so inclined!)

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Sep 13, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 13, 2012

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More uniform: remove different backgrounds for different casts. Remove colour from badges. Don't allow URLs or email addresses as screen names. Limit the length of screen names. Remove bold, italics, underlining and strikethrough. And frankly, I cannot understand why removing font choice makes these forums look more unifom if coloured text is still allowed...

I for one am not glad that I can no longer use a highly readable font such as Verdana.

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Sep 13, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 13, 2012

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Claudio González wrote:

More uniform: remove different backgrounds for different casts.

Agreed.

Remove colour from badges.

Agreed.

Don't allow URLs or email addresses as screen names.

Agreed.

Limit the length of screen names.

Agreed.

Claudio González wrote:

Remove bold, italics, underlining and strikethrough.

For me, these emphasis tools are useful.

I cannot understand why removing font choice makes these forums look more unifom if coloured text is still allowed...

Indeed.  However, it was just my own interpretation that they wanted to achieve a more uniform look; the "designers" do not share their motivation with us, not do they seem to consult anyone.  It is quite possible that they change things just for the pure fun of it...

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Sep 13, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 14, 2012

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Pat Willener wrote:

Claudio González wrote:

...

I cannot understand why removing font choice makes these forums look more unifom if coloured text is still allowed...

Indeed.  However, it was just my own interpretation that they wanted to achieve a more uniform look; the "designers" do not share their motivation with us, not do they seem to consult anyone.  It is quite possible that they change things just for the pure fun of it...

Nice to see we have such a high degree of agreement.  And I think that it is indeed true that there doesn't seem to be much planification, and that they don't pay too much attention to participants. For example, I don't know how many times and for how many years I have suggested that we get something like this

Untitled-1.jpg

instead of the box we have, that gives no clue about how many pages there are in the forum, and permits advancing only one page at a time...

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Sep 14, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 14, 2012

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It is very unfortunate that some remote designers' "vision" is more important than active forum users' wishes.

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Sep 14, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 16, 2012

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Claudio, I was once critical of your choice to edit your posts to forcibly use Verdana, but I have started to come 'round.  I'm sorry for any criticism you may have felt from me in the past (though to be accurate I was arguing at the time in favor of a better font than the current Adobe-Clean that is in use here).

Adobe-Clean is a poorly designed font to be the public face of a computer software company, because, well, it's just bad for use to express high tech stuff, and it's not even properly being displayed by the forum software (italics are botched by Typekit for all Internet Explorer browsers, which instead just the skew the Normal face to oblique).  Consider this text in both Regular and Italic variants:

With Adobe-Clean regular, it's fairly easy to \see\ which of |these| things is /surrounded/ by what kinds of special characters (backslash, vertical bar, forward slash)...

When italics are used, it's not quite /so/ terribly |easy| to pick \out\ the differences, however.

For you, Claudio, I have attempted to use HTML to format the majority of this post in Verdana.  Whether I have succeeded will be revealed after posting.

Verdana.png

-Noel

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Sep 16, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 16, 2012

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Thanks, Noel. There is an old Spanish saying that can be freely translated as "the devil knows more by being old than by being cunning", although this involves an untranslatable word play, because we also call diablo (devil) someone who is cunning. I hope the meaning is clear in my translated version.

I started using Verdana in my posts when they began using here the highly unreadable (on screen) Arial, and at a very tiny size. I chose Verdana as one example of a font that was designed specialy for onscreen reading, very successfully in my opinion, although there are of course others. Now they have changed to a font of their own, Adobe Clean I think. This has meant an improvement, although not a very large one: at the size used here, I had never noticed the very slight difference between an upper case "i" and a lower case "L" until someone pointed it to me.

To top it all, right now the font used for text in the reply window looks as Times to my untrained eye, and this changes to Adobe Clean after posting. Very cunning.

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Sep 16, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 16, 2012

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Understood completely.  We also often say "you little devil" when recognizing someone for being tricky or cunning.

Another thing I've noticed, and it's not limited to Adobe's font, but it DOES make a difference under some conditions, is that the Italic Adobe-Clean font seems more compressed horizontally than its Regular counterpart.  While aesthetically unpleasing to me, this could make readability of some things difficult.  Consider:

Adobe Clean:

1,000,000,000,000 - One billion

2,000,000,000,000 - Two billion

3,000,000,000,000 - Three billion

Folks using Internet Explorer will not see the actual italic Adobe-Clean font, and because (for whatever reason) it just skews the font the character width is consistent.  But those using Firefox or Safari (and possibly others), they see a slightly different width in the italics.  Maybe that's reasonable for a font for a book, but for high tech work?

Verdana:

1,000,000,000,000 - One billion

2,000,000,000,000 - Two billion

3,000,000,000,000 - Three billion

-Noel

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Sep 16, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 16, 2012

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Noel,

OT - are you using the by the minute "US Debt Clock" there... ?

Hunt

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Sep 16, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 16, 2012

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Yeah, except I don't think I put in enough zeros.

Had a start just now - thought I'd seen something get fixed, in that I was actually seeing Adobe-Clean Italic up above, but then I realized I had just left Firefox running and didn't look at the Title Bar closely enough.

-Noel

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Sep 16, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 16, 2012

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Noel Carboni wrote:

I have attempted to use HTML to format the majority of this post in Verdana.

The easiest way to force formatting into posts is by using an external editor (Word, Illustrator, …), format it the way you like it, then copy/paste it into the forum editor.

P.S. I am using Calibri for this post.

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Sep 16, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 17, 2012

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Hello, Pat, thanks for the tip.

This is just a short sentence to show my reason for prefering Verdana over Arial or Adobe Clear (Verdana). 1 l I.

This is just a short sentence to show my reason for prefering Verdana over Arial or Adobe Clear (Arial). 1 l I.

This is just a short sentence to show my reasons for prefering Verdana over Arial or Adobe Clear (Adobe Clear - I hope; I am seeing Times or the like on screen and I am not sure what will come out after I post). l l I.

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Sep 17, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 17, 2012

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This is just a test to see if posting in the HTML editor makes a difference or not.   This is the much maligned Comic Sans.

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Sep 17, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 17, 2012

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Isn’t this the famous Comic Sans? Definitely different from what I see in your message # 19, which looks like Times to my untrained eye.

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Sep 17, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 17, 2012

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And your message saying that your scheme seemed to work seems to have vanished in the internet space...

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Sep 17, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 17, 2012

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You tell me:

Picture 34.png

It apparently depends on what viewer you are using—or something. 

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Sep 17, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 17, 2012

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That was in Safari.  Firefox shows me Verdana in that post #19 and in your post #20, Claudio.

Go figure…

Yes, I deleted what had been my post #20 as soon as I saw the different behavior in different browsers.

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Sep 17, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 17, 2012

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This is what Firefox is showing me now

Picture 35.png

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Sep 17, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 18, 2012

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Firefox/Mac:

Comic.jpg

The text in message #19 looks like Times to me. And I see the text I'm writing in the same font...

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Sep 18, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 18, 2012

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Explorer/Win:

Comic1.JPG

Now I see message #19 and what I'm writing in what looks like the Adobe font...

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Sep 18, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 18, 2012

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Safari/Win:

Comic2.JPG

A third variation: Message #19 in Times and what I'm writing in ... Arial?

I would think that there seems to be something wrong here...

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Sep 18, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 18, 2012

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station_two wrote:

This is just a test to see if posting in the HTML editor makes a difference or not.   This is the much maligned Comic Sans.

It makes a big difference (in certain browsers) if you spell the font name correctly or not.

<span style="font-family: ComicSansMS;"> ≠ <span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;">

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Sep 18, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 18, 2012

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Pat Willener wrote:

...

It makes a big difference (in certain browsers) if you spell the font name correctly or not...

Regardless, why do I see the quoted message in what looks like Times?

And, quite frankly, I am fed up of writing my answers in Times and seeing them posted in the Adobe font. And with no ontrol over the typeface used. Yes, I know that I can write them in whatever font I want in Word and then copy and paste them here, but that's not the point.

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Sep 18, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 18, 2012

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Claudio González wrote:

Regardless, why do I see the quoted message in what looks like Times?

I believe that when the browser does not recognize a font, it will display the text in the browser's default font.

Below I will type something in OCR A Extended; most likely you will see the same Times font:

The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.

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Sep 18, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 19, 2012

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Yes, I do see the last line in what looks like Times. Which raises an interesting point. When I write messages, do I see the same Times because the browser does not recognize the Adobe font???

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Sep 19, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 19, 2012

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Claudio,

I apologize for my lack of vigilance.

Pat is right, and there is even more to it:

When you write your posts, normally or in the advanced editor, you see the default font in your browser.

So it is (only) possible to change the look of post writing by changing the browser default.

I had overlooked the fact because the forum uglifies the font at the rather small font size and (maybe even more) because I have been too busy (and too slow) to notice that I was actually seeing the fairest font, which I have as the default; I should have realized (I hope), had I used certain characters.

Now I am quite enjoying it.

But it seems that each post gets transformed intto the forum font, unless specifically coded.

Presumably, a coded post with a non default font get transformed into the available default font of its kind (serif/sans serif/whatever).

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Sep 19, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 19, 2012

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Well, I have just checked and it's true: there is no font in my systems with a name remotely resembling Adobe Clear, so my browsers are showing the text in my messages as the default font of each.

This is very recent; I noticed immediately after the last change, in which the choice of fonts was removed from the advanced editor in the message box. And it is also very annoying, at least for me, to have to write my messages in one font to see them posted in a completely different font.

As there has been no official reaction, I guess this is just one of the new things that we have to learn to live with. Regardless of the opinion of users.

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Sep 19, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 19, 2012

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Another new feature I had forgotten to mention. When I open any window, if the cursor happens to be in the place of any of the spots displaying windows (member badge, name), the corresponding window is displayed at the upper left hand corner of the screen.

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Sep 19, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 19, 2012

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I fully understand your points, Claudio, but there seem to be some differences in the way things work, whatever it depends on.

For me, the window opens right on top of what I am trying to read. I thought they had implemented the EAM (Eyetracking Annoyance Maximizer) as a special service to the whole community, but maybe you have the TLC version.

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Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 19, 2012

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It can't depend on the phases of the moon; changes are too erratic. It seems to depend on the whims of the designers, who act as it they were the owners of the forums...

For me, the problem is that, once we get a new "feature", it stays there regardless. And for good, as they ironically say in English.

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Sep 19, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 19, 2012

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How about using just the good old fashioned simple plain fonts like monospace or Courier New.

After all it's the solution that matters most to Adobe customers

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Sep 19, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 19, 2012

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With this site it's 2 steps forward, 2.3 stumbles back.

The inability to change font to one of the prescribed fonts has led us down the path to talking about fonts that do and do not exist for use everywhere (there are fairly few).  Adobe's Typekit (some techonology or other they bought) is supposed to fix that, but it just doesn't work right with the most popular browser.  But no matter.  No doubt Adobe has noticed all this and will be removing the HTML capability soon.

Here's a new phrase we can all use, and that I think we can ALL agree on and stand behind...

Close enough for Adobe work!

-Noel

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Sep 19, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 19, 2012

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Jacob Bugge wrote:

When you write your posts, normally or in the advanced editor, you see the default font in your browser.

No, that is something different again.  At least for me; in the editor I see the ugliest font every invented.  It looks like an old-fashioned dot-printer.

This is how it looks using Waterfox on Windows 7.  Using Firefox on Windows XP is even uglier!  I will post an image of that tomorrow...

afed.PNG

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Explorer ,
Sep 20, 2012

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Pat Willener wrote:

This is how it looks using Waterfox on Windows 7.  Using Firefox on Windows XP is even uglier!  I will post an image of that tomorrow...

Not so bad...

Nueva imagen.JPG

Wonder what default and advanced font settings you have in Firefox/WinXP?

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Sep 20, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 20, 2012

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The point is this:  Why should it be different from one user's system to another?

  • Intentional randomization just for the excitement of it all?
  • A "fresh" user experience every visit?
  • Adobe wants to convey the message that they really don't understand web content creation?
  • Avoidance of that awful deja-vu feeling?
  • Completely incompetent web programmers?

Sure is a good thing President Obama appointed the CEO of Adobe as a member of his Management Advisory Board on productivity, the application of technology, and customer service.

-Noel

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Sep 20, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 20, 2012

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Noel,

Thanks for that. I needed a good laugh this AM.

Hunt

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Sep 20, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 18, 2012

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I see what Claudio sees in post #25.

And it is quite disturbing to write in Times. It even applies to the Advanced Editor.

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Sep 18, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 18, 2012

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Jacob Bugge wrote:

I see what Claudio sees in post #25.

And it is quite disturbing to write in Times. It even applies to the Advanced Editor.

Maybe this is the reason why they removed the possibility of using different fonts?

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Sep 18, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 18, 2012

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Note that half the fonts people are trying to use here - e.g., Calibri - don't come out right on an iPhone either.

-Noel

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Sep 18, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Sep 18, 2012

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Verdana does or doesn't?

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Sep 18, 2012 0