Visited Links don't stand out enough + Line Height too short

[_Gary_Politzer_]

I first posted this in the Photoshop Mac forum, and was directed to repost here. I have 2 serious issues with usability of this forum. I wear glasses, and it is very difficult to find my visited links. 2 reasons:

1. The visited links are nearly the same color as the unvisited links. Difference is too subtle. Whose idea was this?

2. The line height between post titles in the forum display is too short. The lines need a few more pixels between them to be individually readable instead of blending into a mass of text.

These are web design issues. Whoever designed this has young eyes, and doesn't wear glasses. Finding one's place in the links is a giant headache for older eyes. Someone suggested I change my browser prefs or write some custom css to make it the way I want it. I have 2 problems with that:

1. I do web design, and use my browser to preview sites. If I have a custom style sheet enabled, I don't get accurate preview. Then, it becomes a matter of having to remember to switch back & forth every time. That is ridiculous.

2. Even if I could solve it at my end, it wouldn't change the fact that this forum is poorly designed in this respect, and needs to be fixed. I am talking about good layout and typography, for legibility. I shouldn't have to be reminding Adobe of all companies about this subject.

I use Mac OS X 10.5.6, and Safari 3.2.1

[Jacob Bugge]

Gary,

As it is said here,

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bc13eaf/5?14@@

this would be the right place to suggest improvements: this is the thread that was created as a common catchall list:

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bc157dd/333

Apart from that:

Concerning 1): In the forums unvisited threads, and threads with new posts since the latest visit are shown with a red flag. Is that not clear enough.

Concerning 2): This is a first time ever suggestion. I do not have a problem, but others may, so it is good to have it discussed. A general concern among the natives here is to avoid the immense waste of space and breakup generally seen in forums, but that is not a matter of a few pixels.

I would suggest our repeating ourselves in the thread linked above, unless one of the hosts moves it. In that way the suggestions will live, long after this thread has fallen into the abyss.

[~graffiti]

I'm totally in agreement with the visited links color. Didn't like it when they first changed it, still don't.

I can make out the difference on one of my machines (but it ain't easy). On the other, I really have to struggle to see if I've already clicked it or not.

[_Gary_Politzer_]

Jacob Bugge,

1. I am talking about posts that I have visited, versus posts I haven't visited. What you said about the red flags has no relevance to my issue. Scanning down the list of posts, the link colors for visited & unvisited are nearly identical, and the lines are too closely spaced. It is next to impossible to find posts I have visited by a quick glance. That means the forum designer is wasting my time. There is this thing called CSS now. You may have heard of it. We don't have to suffer through 1990's web typography any more. Adobe are supposed to be typographic experts, so why do I have to struggle to find my place on the forum?

2. I was directed by Mods to post here, and I am not going to be redirected any more. I am already angry enough that I wasn't even allowed to thank the moderator for his suggestion or include a link to this post, because replies were disabled on my original post. This is it, read it or ignore it, I don't care. As I said before, life is short, so why hire bad web designers?

[Neil_Keller]

Gary,

Your discussion here is fine, as this is a Forums-specific concern.

Neil

[Neil_Keller]

Gary,

While I agree that Adobe's choices of unvisited/visited link colors could have been better chosen, you can easily get around this.

In another browser, say, Firefox, you can override Adobe's settings by going to the browser preferences, choose your fonts, font sizes, and any colors you like for unvisited and visited links, plus the background and regular text colors.

This should take care of most of the issues that you mention. In addition, there are red flags at the end of the subject line for topics with unread posts in them. BTW, I do wear reading glasses and haven't found any of this (OK, except maybe for the specific link colors) to be an issue for me.

Now as far as the page layout is concerned, we've been through several attempted changes over the years, and so far, the navigation and layout as you see it has proven most efficient and most wanted by most forum regulars. We can only wait and see what any future redesign might bring.

Neil

[_Gary_Politzer_]

Neil,

Thank you for your interest. Please note that I am not talking about posts with unread links in them. I am talking about my visited posts, that it, links I have clicked on before, and may wish to return to. The present layout makes it difficult to find these. This would be easy to fix. The visited link color would just need to be made noticeably different from the unvisited link color. This is normal web practice for usability.

The other suggestion, namely customizing the way my browser sees the forum, is not my first choice, because I do web design, and prefer to leave browsers at default, since I use them for previewing. Of course, I could use a dedicated browser just for viewing this forum, but that seems an ungainly workaround.

I would be interested to know if others find the layout eyestrain-inducing. So far, I have only 2 people seconding me. One thing I can do is write some custom CSS for Safari, and take some screenshots to illustrate my suggestions. A visual example always communicates more than a verbal description. I'll be back. :)

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

>would be interested to know if others find the layout eyestrain-inducing.

I don't. It seems to me that you would need to have a less than optimal monitor to have difficulties here.

Maybe you could post a screen shot of what annoys you.

[_Gary_Politzer_]

Ramon,

I have posted before & after screenshots on the following web page:

http://homepage.mac.com/garyp/ps_mac_forum.html

The first one shows the forum as it appears now. The second shows how I'd like to see it. Perhaps I exaggerated the line-height a bit. Visited posts are clearly obvious. My monitor is none other than the gorgeous Apple 30 inch Cinema Display. The problem is my eyes aren't what they used to be:(

heh, I forgot to Convert to Profile before Save for Web. Oh well...

[Kath-H]

I see the issue you refer to, it's not great but I've got used to it. I wear glasses too.

[John_Joslin]

The colour choice was most annoying to me when it was introduced. In the mean time I got used to it. I tried the simple change in Firefox prefs but decided after so long that I didn't need it.

I can see the point though.

[Kath-H]

I can also see why changing your browser prefs just for the sake of one site isn't a good idea at all.

[_Gary_Politzer_]

Thank you, John & Kath, for this feedback.

[Jacob Bugge]

Gary,

As you may have noticed, I certainly welcomed your suggestions, and my comments were in good faith.

Obviously, at first, I misunderstood the first issue to be about new (postings in) threads. I believe we all agree that the visited threads colour should stand out more, although with moderation: it has been discussed and agreed upon before, and there was a test period where it was too uglily discernible.

I actually supported your raising the second issue.

And my final remark, which was also a friendly suggestion, has now proven justified: you have revived an old justified complaint that has regrettably faded into habituation, and you have raised a new one worth discussing; and you have even shown both unmistakingly clear in linked screenshots.

Both could be kept alive in the permanent thread which I linked to in my first post. That thread was made, because the design of these forums is suspended, to gather and preserve exactly such contributions until they may be incorporated.

So why not summarize them in the Forum Feature Requests thread and keep the screenshot link alive as well?

[dave_milbut]

totally agree! links and vlinks could definitely use some tweaking to make them different. not a lot, but some.

[_Phos_four_dots_]

A nice addition to our control centers would be to enable user choice for link & vlink colors. A couple more font choices wouldn't hurt, either.

For the record, I AdBlock the stylesheet for Adobeforums, and have set my own prefs in Firefox (my 99% browser) for colors and font-family & font-size.

[Buko_]

Gary you know you can change the font size in the preferences link at the top of each page. As much I don't like the visited link color, I do like the way the pages look now. So try changing the font sizes in your prefs and see if that helps you out.

[_Gary_Politzer_]

Jacob,

My apologies for being so defensive at first. I was feeling grumpy, I guess. I'll see about summarizing my suggestions, minus attitude, in the Forum Feature Requests, if I can find them.

Gary

[_Gary_Politzer_]

Buko,

I don't have a problem with the font size. It's fine for me. My suggestion is to expand the line height between post titles a bit, to make them more individually readable. The post titles as they are now look like one giant block of text.

Gary

[Buko_]

I personally prefer the way it is now. I was thinking making the type larger would also increase the leading for you.

[Jacob Bugge]

Gary, you are very welcome. The second link in the first post leads too the thread.

[Buko_]

I'm posting to make the DUMB thread drop.