Why are we here?

[#1]

I've posted this, but I think we need to get back to basics.

>What Adobe wants to hear is cogent, rational and professional responses to their proposals to change the forums.

>See, Oz, that's the problem. We are not being told in any detail what their proposals are, and we have no idea how much we can influence them.

>Take the issue of a 'question answered' indication. Will there be one? In what form? Is there any point saying whether we want one or not?

>We just get fuzzy, obscure comments about how some things might be there out of the box, it might be possible to add or subtract some features, but we don't know whether or which.

>If Adobe wants cogent, rational and professional responses, they (it?) really need(s?) to make some cogent, rational and professional proposals for us to discuss.

>Otherwise we're going round in circles.

[#2]

I've posted this, but I think we need to get back to basics.

>What Adobe wants to hear is cogent, rational and professional responses to their proposals to change the forums.

>See, Oz, that's the problem. We are not being told in any detail what their proposals are, and we have no idea how much we can influence them.

>Take the issue of a 'question answered' indication. Will there be one? In what form? Is there any point saying whether we want one or not?

>We just get fuzzy, obscure comments about how some things might be there out of the box, it might be possible to add or subtract some features, but we don't know whether or which.

>If Adobe wants cogent, rational and professional responses, they (it?) really need(s?) to make some cogent, rational and professional proposals for us to discuss.

>Otherwise we're going round in circles.

[#3]

Are we really being asked for our views? Is anyone listening? Is there any point?

Does anyone know, actually know, what we can ask to have or not have, and for that to happen?

If our opinions are wanted - on what, *exactly* ?

If it's all speculation, what's the point?

[#4]

Like I said in another thread, perhaps we've commented too much on some highly preliminary information. And I include myself in that "we".

If and when a working prototype is made available, then we'll have something more meaty to get our teeth into, and something where function can be checked out properly as well as form.

Let's hope that's what they are working on now (and thus not getting much involved in discussions here). I don't know how far things have got backstage.

[#5]

John is listening, we know that. I am sure that he brings our concerns up to the powers that be. That doesn't mean that changes will be made according to our wishes (which might be a good thing, as the predominant wish of many of us would be to leave the whole thing as it is, which is not going to happen).

So yes, I think we are being heard. But it is not a democracy ... they run the company and can do whatever they want with it. We don't get a vote, only the opportunity to make our feelings known, which we have.

Our vote is with our feet, after the changes are made, if we find that the new forums are not worth the hassles. I made that vote at the last disaster. But I am more hopeful that this time things won't be so bad.

[#6]

>Are we really being asked for our views? Is anyone listening? Is there any point?

for most companies that host forums and I suspect Adobe is included, No!

all this is an excise in venting a fears, desires, wants.

But, in the end adobe will decide what they want you, and me to put up with. they have no interest nor any desires to do anything for the users.

In there heart of hearts if the could drive everyone a way then they would have to have forums and it cost them less in the long run.

[#7]

John doesn't have to tell us anything, nor did he have to contort himself in many and varied ways over the years as he has to make us happy.

He's listening... but people have to be reasonable and practical and give him rational feedback that he's able to reply to. I don't expect him to jump into the fray when people are shouting out demands of what they have to have to be happy.

What he can respond to is such things as whether or not we'll be using various elements included in the software he's working with.

We can do our own homework also and try to see what might be possible before we start insisting on having things that are impossible. Most of the stuff in this page is well beyond me, but people are welcome to pick through it and see what they can find out... http://www.jivesoftware.com/builds/docs/clearspace/latest/