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I do not understand what is going on over here. These are long time people. Who are you that is doing this? It can't be the Adobe I know and love.
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shunithD wrote on 11/6/2009 7:36 PM:
You know, i hate to say it, but you have totally lost the plot. I have looked at all those threads and there's absolutely nothing offensive there...
Thank you. We work very hard to make sure everything is dealt with
swiftly and people are not bothered by it
http://forums.adobe.com/message/2286160#2286160 was in reply to Jhabrix... How you expect that to be a warning to JJ is beyond me.
It is a response to the first message in a thread. That is as 'top
level' as you can get in an existing thread, so that is the proper place
for a general warning intended for all.
Then he posts an image of a snail!? When we're talking about speed?! And you object to that???
There is a pretty decent instruction in the FAQ as to the information we
need to analyze If you don't want to help us by providing that sort of
information that is fine. Nobody is required to help. But everybody is
required to get out of the way of the people who are trying to fix stuff.
So yes, I asked Adobe to warn John Joslin and Ansury and dec9 to stay
out of the way. (Since I do not believe Ansury and dec9 were banned this
week I doubt anything was done with that request.)
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I never received a e-mail warning so nothing was done with your request. However, I will back off.
jochemd wrote:
shunithD wrote on 11/6/2009 7:36 PM:
You know, i hate to say it, but you have totally lost the plot. I have looked at all those threads and there's absolutely nothing offensive there...
Thank you. We work very hard to make sure everything is dealt with
swiftly and people are not bothered by it
http://forums.adobe.com/message/2286160#2286160 was in reply to Jhabrix... How you expect that to be a warning to JJ is beyond me.
It is a response to the first message in a thread. That is as 'top
level' as you can get in an existing thread, so that is the proper place
for a general warning intended for all.
Then he posts an image of a snail!? When we're talking about speed?! And you object to that???
There is a pretty decent instruction in the FAQ as to the information we
need to analyze If you don't want to help us by providing that sort of
information that is fine. Nobody is required to help. But everybody is
required to get out of the way of the people who are trying to fix stuff.
So yes, I asked Adobe to warn John Joslin and Ansury and dec9 to stay
out of the way. (Since I do not believe Ansury and dec9 were banned this
week I doubt anything was done with that request.)
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I will repeat what I said earlier. I think people are angry and justifiably so. The people who were banned I have never known to be particularly hostile. I think it is a frustration that has grown. I know sometimes I get so angry spit happens. I have had to learn that when I am in that state I am ineffective. However, just because people lose it doesn't mean there is not a valid point to be made.
And I am sorry Jochem van Dieten but you are part of the problem. And I say that as kindly and non-confrontational as I can muster.
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Cindy- wrote on 11/6/2009 7:39 PM:
I will repeat what I said earlier.
No need for that, we got the message the first time.
I think people are angry and justifiably so.
I can think of very few people where I would call it justifiably. During
the transition some FAQs disappeared and I can imagine the authors being
upset. There are some people who are not just pointing out the problems,
but posting the solutions (who incidentally all seem to be employees and
moderators). Yet there is no reaction visible from Adobe, so the
solutions do not get implemented. I would be angry for a few days too if
I was one of them.
But to everybody who is angry: get over it. To quote somebody: "It is
clear, really clear that the changes that have been made are the way it is."
I think it is a frustration that has grown.
Be that as it may, this is not the place to vent. I find going to the
beach for a walk much more effective anyway.
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Hmmm... you seem oblivious to why people are upset. Perhaps this will help make it clear:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/UNCTUOUS
As for me, I don't much care anymore. The User-to-User forums used to be a vital place, full of interesting and knowledgeable people, but they've lost their soul. Now they've become the realm of overzealous hall monitors, who get their jollies from flashing tin badges and writing petty violation notices. Kinda like the aforementioned Quark forums, only slower.
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Brutus_Maximus wrote on 11/6/2009 11:17 PM:
Hmmm... you seem oblivious to why people are upset.
No, I just think it is ridiculous for people to stay upset.
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Jochemd - I notice that the front page says that there have been 84 responses, but there is only 64 showing. Does that mean you have deleted 24% of the messages posted? And if so for what cause?
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All were two or thread word post by a fellow name MonteCristo64(?). I belive its that fellow they can't seem to ban, for some strange reason.
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Are you positive they were all of them from this person? I ask because I reported several of them, and they were closer to three lines than to three words.
This person has been more than banned, but there seems to be no way of preventing his/her posting. Which goes to show how useless is banning for more "normal" users, who don't insist on continuing posting. Even more so when the banned person, and the rest of the users, are not informed of the banning and its reasons.
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Unlike about 80% according JVD that goes to website looks up all the forums and reads what new. I use the email notifications and I click on the links to go to forums subsscribed.
Anyway aal of Monty's post varying from two thre words to as you say possibly three lines when I clicked on accompaning link there was the File not found. There may have been one or wto thers but only one or two. The majority was Monty. I also notice somebody name Brutus Maximums (which may be the same fellow is slammed right much as well. All of what I read if I had been moderating I would have just considered baiting the moderator just to get the very reaction and I would have ignored them.
I am a Moderator of the quicken newsgroup on Yahoo. When I have a post Removed I have post a reason as to why I recommend removal. Usually its spam. B ut I have removed items for other issues but it been very rare.
Oh, and by the way. I would dare want to be a Moderator of this group. JVD has run this group with such an iron fist. No one after him would survive. so he has gauranteed his position.
BUt JVD has his on attitudes. And if is what adobe thinks is needed, so be it. Oh, and I would allow political post in the Lounge area.
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jochemd wrote:
Cindy- wrote on 11/6/2009 7:39 PM:
I will repeat what I said earlier.
No need for that, we got the message the first time.
But to everybody who is angry: get over it.
There you go again talking to professional adults like school children only to whine or ban people when you are disrespected. It is obvious to myself and many others that you are like a little hall monitor with a badge. You are not part of the community. I don't know how Adobe could ever expect this to be a rich community in an atmosphere created by people who don't have the skills to deal with people.
I don't consider this a personal attack but rather calling it as I see it. In fact, it started with you. You do not know how to talk to people.
Now I'm getting tired of this. It is going nowhere.
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Cindy- wrote on 11/7/2009 12:07 AM:
There you go again talking to professional adults like school children
The thing about online forums is that you don't get the answer you want,
but the answer that other people think you need. Which in this case is
"get over it". Adobe has made some changes to the software and format of
the forums. You are not going to change that here, those changes are the
way it is (your words).
So now it is time to start playing with the hand you are dealt.
As an outsider, and with only what I read here to go by, the more I
think about what I read here, the more I think that what is happening is
a positive change to the Photoshop community. With a background in
another community my perspective is that a change in a forum system is a
laughable reason for being upset. In the last 10 years, from being the
flagship product of one company, my product became the ugly stepchild of
another. And got killed. And then resurrected when in a downturn it kept
selling. And then became the ugly third removed cousin of Adobe. And got
killed. And got resurrected because there was a community that kept
buying it.
Yet at the last MAX, some 50% of the attendees identified himself as
ColdFusion programmer.
The community got strong by not depending on whoever owned the product,
but by being independent. Where do you go for ColdFusion help? Not to
the Adobe forums. You go to HoF. Or to your usergroup. (There are user
groups that have more active mailinglists then the Adobe forums.) Or you
just ask on one of the countless blogs of Community Experts.
And the smae goes for other products. Where do you go for Flex help? Not
to the Adobe forums, but to the flexcoders mailinglist. Or you post on
stackoverflow.com.
If it is truly the case that just changing the Adobe forum software to
something else is such a horrible assault on the heart of the Photoshop
community, the Photoshop community has problems that go much deeper.
Most of all, a ridiculous dependency on Adobe that will prevent it from
ever becoming an independent voice. Second, an inability to organize
itself and develop alternative venues for the community to grow. And
that community should be happy this happens at a time when there is no
serious threat to the next version of Photoshop so it can take the time
to think about what it wants and how to reinvent itself.
So get over it and start working on your community. If the Photoshop
community wants to be heard, it has to show it can thrive outside these
forums.
Then again, I know nothing about the Photoshop community, so maybe the
Photoshop community is just fine and what is voiced here is not
representative of the community at large.
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jochemd wrote:
Then again, I know nothing about the Photoshop community.
And it shows. If you know nothing about a subject, it's better not to give sermons about it.
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If I could give you points Claudio, I would!
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greenjumpyone wrote:
If I could give you points Claudio, I would!
But I have more points than you do! (I seem to specialize in answering questions from newcomers who never find their way back to their questions).
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Jochem,
your cold, mechanical comments certainly do not give this forum and it's participants any warm fuzzy feelings. You seem to enjoy giving your one line answers just to see how much you can ruffle the feathers of the users. I don't understand why you feel the need to do this. The forum rules suggest this is to be a vibrant community ... well, you seem to be doing your level best to be the antithesis of those words.
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greenjumpyone wrote:
Jochem,
your cold, mechanical comments certainly do not give this forum and it's participants any warm fuzzy feelings. You seem to enjoy giving your one line answers just to see how much you can ruffle the feathers of the users. I don't understand why you feel the need to do this. The forum rules suggest this is to be a vibrant community ... well, you seem to be doing your level best to be the antithesis of those words.
I think Jochem does the opposite of what he was sent here to do. I don't consider being antagonistic a positive attribute. Especially when you have a title such as Community Expert. He even wants to kick me out of here now after I have participated in a perfectly reasonable manner. I would imagine if someone who was objective truely went over this thread they would draw the same conclusions about the antagonism.
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And a sermon it was....
The only thing I want to say at this point is: the Photoshop forum is not a dependency on Adobe. It is a user to user forum. People have used it since Compuserve when it was not "hosted" by Adobe (I suppose it could have been). So it has a long history of which you were not part of. I was around all this time however I was not one of the more vocal participants. I make no claims to my expertise or how much I have or have not shared over time. But I do know what these forums were and as far as I am concerned the moves made or allowed by Adobe have caused it to fail. You are but a symptom of that failure. This is not personal. I'm sure you have your strengths and things you can contribute to this world but I would not consider this one of them.
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Cindy- wrote on 11/7/2009 11:40 PM:
The only thing I want to say at this point is: the Photoshop forum is not a dependency on Adobe.
I am glad you have somewhere else to go.
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jochemd wrote:
Cindy- wrote on 11/7/2009 11:40 PM:
The only thing I want to say at this point is: the Photoshop forum is not a dependency on Adobe.
I am glad you have somewhere else to go.
You don't think you are confrontational do you?
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Cindy- wrote on 11/7/2009 11:49 PM:
jochemd wrote :
>> I am glad you have somewhere else to go.
You don't think you are confrontational do you?
First and foremost I consider myself a realist.
1. You are not happy with the forums.
2. The forums are not going to change anytime soon.
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jochemd wrote:
1. You are not happy with the forums.
2. The forums are not going to change anytime soon.
1. no I am not. Let the fact I have been here very little be a testiment to that.
2. oh they will change. Eventually. All things work out in the end. Whether they fall by the wayside or thrive through change... it is all change. Guess we will all see won't we?
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Cindy- wrote on 11/8/2009 12:12 AM:
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jochemd wrote:
Cindy- wrote on 11/8/2009 12:12 AM:
WOW! Cindy writes in the future! I guess it's in invisible ink though, as I can't read what she wrote.
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greenjumpyone wrote:
jochemd wrote:
Cindy- wrote on 11/8/2009 12:12 AM:
WOW! Cindy writes in the future! I guess it's in invisible ink though, as I can't read what she wrote.
Maybe 11/8/2009 12:12 AM: is code for when I will be banned.