Why can't we just have separate log ins and be done with this nonsense?

Engaged ,
May 23, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

As the topic says...

This common login is supposed to be one reason why Adobe can't implement NNTP. But what function does it serve? I've commented in another thread, and below is more or less, what i said there...

That, i think, was the most assinine idea anyone ever came up with. I see no reason for not having separate log ins for store and forums / downloads. In fact, i can't think of one good reason to combine the two.

If i were a user of the Adobe store, i would definitely prefer to have a separate login and password for that area. I think most people would. I see a lot of aliases in the forums. In the store, you'd want to use your real name for tax and audit purposes. Moreover, what's to stop people creating two identities anyway? So, the whole purpose of a common id is meaningless.

Am sure, that even at this stage, it wouldn't be too difficult to separate the two. For instance, whenever i open the forums i see a welcome at the top of the screen. Right above 'Home'. Yet, i still have to login to the forums... what give? Idiotic.

Adding to the above, doing away with this single log in would also mean an end to this frustration of suddenly getting logged off, randomly staying logged in, etc., etc.

Adobe Community Professional
Correct answer by Scott Falkner | Adobe Community Professional

John Joslin wrote:


Forum Ops: The people who were helping users are all leaving the forums!


Adobe Management:  Whatever.

Adobe Management: Fuck 'em. We already have their money.

Views

10.0K

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more

Why can't we just have separate log ins and be done with this nonsense?

Engaged ,
May 23, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

As the topic says...

This common login is supposed to be one reason why Adobe can't implement NNTP. But what function does it serve? I've commented in another thread, and below is more or less, what i said there...

That, i think, was the most assinine idea anyone ever came up with. I see no reason for not having separate log ins for store and forums / downloads. In fact, i can't think of one good reason to combine the two.

If i were a user of the Adobe store, i would definitely prefer to have a separate login and password for that area. I think most people would. I see a lot of aliases in the forums. In the store, you'd want to use your real name for tax and audit purposes. Moreover, what's to stop people creating two identities anyway? So, the whole purpose of a common id is meaningless.

Am sure, that even at this stage, it wouldn't be too difficult to separate the two. For instance, whenever i open the forums i see a welcome at the top of the screen. Right above 'Home'. Yet, i still have to login to the forums... what give? Idiotic.

Adding to the above, doing away with this single log in would also mean an end to this frustration of suddenly getting logged off, randomly staying logged in, etc., etc.

Adobe Community Professional
Correct answer by Scott Falkner | Adobe Community Professional

John Joslin wrote:


Forum Ops: The people who were helping users are all leaving the forums!


Adobe Management:  Whatever.

Adobe Management: Fuck 'em. We already have their money.

Views

10.0K

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
May 23, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
May 23, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

The very fact that your comment is reasonable and logical means that it has zero chance of being considered by the "management" of Adobe.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 23, 2009 1
May 24, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

"In fact, i can't think of one good reason to combine the two."

Because you don't have all the facts, much less all the plans.

It makes sense.

NNTP has a few dozen things going against it, and login creditentials are the least of it's problems.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 24, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
May 24, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Chris Cox wrote:


NNTP has a few dozen things going against it, and login creditentials are the least of it's problems.

Chris,

Are you able to explain what some of the other issues are?

Harbs

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 24, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 24, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Because you don't have all the facts, much less all the plans.

Then you shouldn't be surprised to get what you may consider uninformed comments, nor should you criticise them. We didn't uninform ourselves.

It makes sense

Bald statements are unconvincing. People might agree if they understood. Care to share?

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 24, 2009 1
Advocate ,
May 24, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I found that 'because I say so' didn't cut it with my kids beyond the age of about four, when they learnt to use their brains in the form of verbal reasoning.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 24, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 27, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Harbs. wrote on 2009-05-24 21:22:

Chris Cox wrote :

>> NNTP has a few dozen things going against it, and login creditentials are the least of it's problems.

Are you able to explain what some of the other issues are?

I don't want to speak for Chris, but perhaps the following recording of

a Connect session on the new forums from a few months back would help to

provide some insight: http://adobedev.adobe.acrobat.com/p61676377/

(Sorry it took a while, I had to check with Adobe this is not (or no

longer) under NDA first.)

Jochem

--

Jochem van Dieten

http://jochem.vandieten.net/

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 27, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 27, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Thanks Jochem, very interesting. In that discussion among 'ACEs' I saw absolutely no downsides of NNTP mentioned, except someone thought it was old fashioned. What I saw was spirited resistance to the dropping of NNTP, and *no* reason offered except that Adobe 'doesn't want' to host it any more.

Nothing at all about combining log-ins. And nothing to support Chris's assertion.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 27, 2009 0
Mentor ,
May 27, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Yeah I just watched that whole thing and what I got out of it was, We are going to do this whether you like it or not. I kept hearing the same things we have been complaining about and nobody seems to care. Thanks for the insight.

Adobe cares more about bells and whistles than information. Thanks Adobe. Might as well do what Quark did and remove the forums completely

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 27, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 27, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Kath-H wrote on 2009-05-27 23:02:

Thanks Jochem, very interesting. In that discussion among 'ACEs' I saw absolutely no downsides of NNTP mentioned, except someone thought it was old fashioned.

Somewhere, I think in the written comments on the left, it was mentioned

there was a problem with NNTP because changes to messages (due to

updates or moderation) were not reflected on the NNTP side. In addition

there was a mention about a looping problem were posts that were deleted

in the web forums were recreated from a feedback loop from NNTP.

Obviously both problems are entirely solvable and can be blamed

completely on a crappy implementation, but those are at least two of the

perceived problems. I don't know whether these are the problems Chris

was referring to. Chris?

Jochem

--

Jochem van Dieten

http://jochem.vandieten.net/

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 27, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
May 27, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Thanks Jochem,

It was very interesting.

The tone there seemed to be that if there's a way to make NNTP or

similar option work, they will.

The AIR app might really be a viable option, depending on how it's

done...

I'll still keep my fingers crossed...

Harbs

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 27, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
May 27, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

It was interesting. Thank you for sharing it.


However it just reinforces the feeling that Adobe (was) rushed into something prematurely, made a half-hearted attempt at a very short preview, and jumped in at the deep end.


As a result, the forums are now struggling to keep afloat.


I think someone forgot that user-to-user forums are no good if the users leave in disgust!

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 27, 2009 0
Mentor ,
May 28, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

jochemd wrote:

I don't want to speak for Chris, but perhaps the following recording of

a Connect session on the new forums from a few months back would help to

provide some insight: http://adobedev.adobe.acrobat.com/p61676377/

(Sorry it took a while, I had to check with Adobe this is not (or no

longer) under NDA first.)

Jochem

the other thing I got out of the video was Adobe is more concerned about looking pretty than having a functional fast working forum with all the experts that have left us.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 28, 2009 0
Advisor ,
May 28, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Yes, thanks for that link. And thanks to Adobe for releasing it to the general public.

The other thing that kept hitting me as odd was the mention of having to set up a news server. Yes, I know that it was somehow a part of the WebX program, but AFAIK, forums.macromedia.com already was a separate news server. At least it had been in use for some time before FuseTalk ever showed up. Of course, it may well have been on its last legs and and they would still have needed to build a new one. Moot point anyway since Jive did its jive thing in that regard.

Oh. And updates/changes/deletions to messages don't get re-sent through emails anyway. But then, Google doesn't archive my email, so I can almost understand that concern.

Thanks again

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 28, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 28, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Aren't posts in the forums picked up by Google? Unexpurgated versions and all? So what's the extra concern with NNTP?

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 28, 2009 0
Advisor ,
May 28, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Yes, but I how fast? Sometimes the responses in the "Report Spam" threads are mighty quick! Even so, I would bet that some get archived before deletion.

So that is not a very strong argument in my book. I didn't hear any strong arguments against NNTP. The cost of server and maintenance may have been enough to push it over budget, though.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 28, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 28, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Then somebody should have the balls to say so.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 28, 2009 0
Enthusiast ,
May 28, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Kath-H wrote:

Then somebody should have the balls to say so.

times are tough. b&lls like that can leave you out on the street right now...

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 28, 2009 0
Engaged ,
May 28, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

John Joslin wrote:

I think someone forgot that user-to-user forums are no good if the users leave in disgust!

Touche!

PS: Forgive, organising the accent was too much of a hassle!

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 28, 2009 0
Engaged ,
May 28, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Buko.

the other thing I got out of the video was Adobe is more concerned about looking pretty than having a functional fast working forum with all the experts that have left us.

Has Adobe had a recent top management change? That would explain all this excreta...

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 28, 2009 0
Enthusiast ,
May 28, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

yes, but i think the issue goes back 2 CEOs not just this one... tehy started going downhill (from a user perspective, not a shareholder one) on bruce's watch.

ask disney and michael eisner what happens when you watch the bottom line to closely as opposed to giving people what they want. iger, jobs and lassiter "get it".

hey... my cursor is gone inside this reply box... <alice>curiouser and curiouser</alice>

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 28, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
May 28, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

dave milbut wrote:

hey... my cursor is gone inside this reply box... <alice>curiouser and curiouser</alice>

Already reported in the small nipple thread.


Toggle to HTML and back.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 28, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 28, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Mark A. Boyd wrote on 2009-05-28 17:01:

The other thing that kept hitting me as odd was the mention of having to set up a news server. Yes, I know that it was somehow a part of the WebX program, but AFAIK, forums.macromedia.com already was a separate news server. At least it had been in use for some time before FuseTalk ever showed up. Of course, it may well have been on its last legs and and they would still have needed to build a new one.

Just get a subscription on some random usenet provider for $25 per month

and feed it through them.

Oh. And updates/changes/deletions to messages don't get re-sent through emails anyway. But then, Google doesn't archive my email, so I can almost understand that concern.

It is more logical to send notifications through NNTP then through

email. NNTP has both a mechanism to remove posts (cancel messages) and a

mechanism to update posts (through the Supercedes header). So not being

able to propagate changes from the forums to NNTP is really a bug in the

NNTP software Adobe used, not in the NNTP protocol itself.

Jochem

--

Jochem van Dieten

http://jochem.vandieten.net/

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 28, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 28, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Kath-H wrote:

I found that 'because I say so' didn't cut it with my kids beyond the age of about four, when they learnt to use their brains in the form of verbal reasoning.

Maybe I am missing something, but I didn't change logins or anything... didn't the WebX forums use the same login as the store?  If WebX did it I don't see why now it's all Jived up with this new software.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 28, 2009 0
Advisor ,
May 28, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

jochemd wrote:

Mark A. Boyd wrote on 2009-05-28 17:01:

Oh. And updates/changes/deletions to messages don't get re-sent through emails anyway. But then, Google doesn't archive my email, so I can almost understand that concern.

It is more logical to send notifications through NNTP then through

email. NNTP has both a mechanism to remove posts (cancel messages) and a

mechanism to update posts (through the Supercedes header). So not being

able to propagate changes from the forums to NNTP is really a bug in the

NNTP software Adobe used, not in the NNTP protocol itself.

Yep. I had forgotten about those since they're turned off on so many servers these days. Totally appropriate in an authenticating setup, too.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 28, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 28, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

didn't the WebX forums use the same login as the store?

No, definitely not. Maybe you chose the same user name and password for both. But the one would not automatically work on the other.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 28, 2009 0
Mentor ,
May 28, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Ansury wrote:

Kath-H wrote:

I found that 'because I say so' didn't cut it with my kids beyond the age of about four, when they learnt to use their brains in the form of verbal reasoning.

Maybe I am missing something, but I didn't change logins or anything... didn't the WebX forums use the same login as the store?  If WebX did it I don't see why now it's all Jived up with this new software.

Nope.

When you logged on  to webX. You were not logged into adobe.com (store) and unless for some reason you desired to Logg out. as long as the set cookie was there. You could be logged in for 20 -30 years even through many shut downs of your computer. I know until they started messing with combining the Macromedia Groups and Adobe groups I had been singned in for two or three years or more.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 28, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 28, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Signed in 2-3 years? Hmm, yeah same here for the good forums.

Too bad that's gone forever! huh?

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 28, 2009 0
Mentor ,
May 24, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Chris Cox wrote:

"In fact, i can't think of one good reason to combine the two."

Because you don't have all the facts, much less all the plans.

It makes sense.

NNTP has a few dozen things going against it, and login creditentials are the least of it's problems.

I frequent a NNTP Site annexcafe That requires the use of a UserName and password. On SeaMonkey It called in Server setting Request authenication in order to log in to this server.

In otherwords you can require a Username and Password just like in web forums.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 24, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 25, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Phillip Jones wrote on 2009-05-24 23:54:

I frequent a NNTP Site annexcafe That requires the use of a UserName and password. On SeaMonkey It called in Server setting Request authenication in order to log in to this server.

In otherwords you can require a Username and Password just like in web forums.

Sure you can require a username and password. The problem is that when

you supply them they will be sent to Jive, not to Adobe. Cryptographic

authentication protocols that support TTP login systems for NNTP are

very new and I don't know any large scale implementation, nor do I know

whether many clients support them.

And mind you, there are other issues besides the authentication.

Jochem

--

Jochem van Dieten

http://jochem.vandieten.net/

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 25, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 25, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I just think it's going to prove too difficult/complicated/expensive to integrate the way Jive and Adobe handle log-ins in a way that people will perceive as acceptable.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 25, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 25, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Or ... I think a good compromise would be to have one ID/password for the whole of the Adobe site, but one separate one for the forums alone, since they are hosted elsewhere.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 25, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 25, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Kath-H wrote on 2009-05-26 07:15:

Or ... I think a good compromise would be to have one ID/password for the whole of the Adobe site, but one separate one for the forums alone, since they are hosted elsewhere.

The way the login system currently works (cookies) you will never be

able to do SSO for services that are not under *.adobe.com.

Jochem

--

Jochem van Dieten

http://jochem.vandieten.net/

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 25, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 25, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

'Useless whining' could also be interpreted as determined resistance. If those who are not happy continue to leave, that can and may force a rethink. Just because a policy decision is made, doesn't mean it can never be changed. Those who do not just silently leave are in fact doing Adobe a favour, since they are bothering to insist on and explain what is not acceptable.

Never heard of the UK poll tax riots, eh, Jochem?

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 25, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 25, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Not to mention opening all the "free points" topics.

Not currently guilty - but when the natives are really restless they do not always confine themselves to polite requests.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 25, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 25, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I think I am being nice when I call it whining. Because the answer has

been given, and is just not accepted.

With advance apologies for the horrible stereotyping, I think that view comes from a rather Scandinavian/Germanic-type mindset - what you are seeing is more of the European tear-up-the-paving-slabs and set-fire-to-things way of expressing dissent

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 25, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
May 25, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Now Kath, the gentleman has told you; you have been given an answer and, coming from Adobe, that should be sufficient!


Go back to your place and write 100 times, "I will not argue with teacher".

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 25, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 26, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Kath-H wrote on 2009-05-26 07:37:

>> I think I am being nice when I call it whining. Because the answer has

>> been given, and is just not accepted.

With advance apologies for the horrible stereotyping, I think that view comes from a rather Scandinavian/Germanic-type mindset - what you are seeing is more of the European tear-up-the-paving-slabs and set-fire-to-things way of expressing dissent

Relax. Take a deep breath. Write one reply to all I wrote. Get coffee.

Read your reply again. Edit it. Submit it. Because just because you feel

the need to cut up your reply in half a dozen messages doesn't mean I am

going to answer more then one.

Jochem

--

Jochem van Dieten

http://jochem.vandieten.net/

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 26, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 26, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

more then one.

AAAAaaaaaaggghhhhhhh! (Too much coffee ) - Dorothy, is that you????!!!!!!

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 26, 2009 0
Enthusiast ,
May 26, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Write one reply to all I wrote. Get coffee. Read your reply again. Edit it. Submit it. Get logged out by stoopid forum software, losing the message you worked on for 20 minutes. Forget all the details you wrote about passionately. Post "Me too." Move on.

there... fixed that for ya.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 26, 2009 0
Participant ,
May 26, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

That's a little offensive Kathy (hope you don't mind me using your name).

I'm neither and I find the constant whining to be just that; Whining.

Why does everyone that was on WebX think they're more important that the

users who were on Fusetalk ? All the constant complaining seems to be coming

from the supposedly more mature ex Webxers.

I'm not talking about the legitmate complaints <ie> browsing speed; But the

inane whining about the point system. Geezus who the hell cares about the

point system ?! "One doth protest too much" springs to mind.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 26, 2009 0
Guide ,
May 26, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

S.D.A. wrote:

I'm neither and I find the constant whining to be just that; Whining.

Ironically, that's all you do, S.D.A.:  whine.  Well, maybe not strictly all, since you also b¡tch and criticize, but it all comes under whining.

S.D.A. wrote:


All the constant complaining seems to be coming

from the supposedly more mature ex Webxers.

Sure, beacuse the FuseTalkers don't know any better.   For them, Jive may even be an improvement.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 26, 2009 0
Contributor ,
May 26, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Okay, here are my thoughts on this:

1) where is the information stored with regards to the store login?

2) where is the information stored with regards to the forum login?

are they on the same server?  if yes, I sure don't want Jive having potential access to my private information!

I seldom visit the store.  I don't want any of my personal information accidently revealed because I have to be tied to the store when I am in the forum.

With regards to the various Adobe forums, it makes perfect sense to have one login for the forums.  NOT for the store and the forums simultaneously.

It was a bad decision.  It needs to be changed.

It's not whinning, it's common sense.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 26, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 26, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

S.D.A. wrote:

That's a little offensive Kathy

What's a little offensive?

(hope you don't mind me using your name).


You're welcome to use my name, that's what it's for - but please get it right, it's not Kathy.

I'm neither and I find the constant whining to be just that; Whining.


You are neither what nor what?

Why does everyone that was on WebX think they're more important that the users who were on Fusetalk ? All the constant complaining seems to be coming from the supposedly more mature ex Webxers.

People on Fusetalk had such lousy forums that most of them used NNTP instead, I think we know a bit more about what a decent forum looks like.

I'm not talking about the legitmate complaints browsing speed; But the inane whining about the point system. Geezus who the hell cares about the point system ?!

Who's 'whining' about points here - this is the thread about separate log-ins.

"One doth protest too much" springs to mind.


'One' could do with reading a post before criticising it, more like.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 26, 2009 0
Enthusiast ,
May 26, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

All the constant complaining seems to be coming from the supposedly more mature ex Webxers.

imo, maybe because of 2 things: 1st as kath said, it's probably an improvement to the ex-MMers using the fusetalk forums which were - to put it nicely - slower that glacial. and 2nd, the other group that would be complaining, the NNTP users have simply mostly chosen to leave quietly.

that's giving up, not helping to make things better by providing feedback. if no one complained, things would never change and adobe would assume all is right with the world. instead of looking at us as "whiners" maybe adobe should look at us as "harbingers".

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 26, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 26, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

greenjumpyone wrote on 2009-05-26 16:45:

1) where is the information stored with regards to the store login?

2) where is the information stored with regards to the forum login?

are they on the same server?

Yes.

Jochem

--

Jochem van Dieten

http://jochem.vandieten.net/

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 26, 2009 0
Contributor ,
May 26, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

jochemd wrote:

greenjumpyone wrote on 2009-05-26 16:45:

1) where is the information stored with regards to the store login?

2) where is the information stored with regards to the forum login?

are they on the same server?

Yes.

Jochem

so what does that mean in terms of security?  If memory serves me, in the old system, the store and the forums were on two different servers and never the twain shall meet.  Isn't that a more secure setup?  Why would they change that?

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 26, 2009 0
Enthusiast ,
May 24, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Because you don't have all the facts, much less all the plans.

It makes sense.

gm chrystler chris. do you think we're stupid? do you think many of us don't know exactly what plans a big corporation might have for tying logins together? especially one that links the store to other areas?

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 24, 2009 0
Engaged ,
May 24, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Chris Cox wrote:

"In fact, i can't think of one good reason to combine the two."

Because you don't have all the facts, much less all the plans.

It makes sense.

NNTP has a few dozen things going against it, and login creditentials are the least of it's problems.

Jive ACE Adobe Arrogance to the fore again!

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 24, 2009 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
May 24, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I normally don't like saying "I told you so", and I normally don't, but...


Shortly after Adobe stepped back from the last fiasco, we began hearing rumors about uniforming the looks of all the Adobe sites. Wanting to know what could be waiting for us, I began visiting the ex MM forums. To my surprise, I found that I had to log in them using my Adobe Store username and password, and I also found that I never remained logged in those forums for more than perhaphs a couple of hours (I never measured this time). I therefore came to the Suggestions for the New Forums thread (I don't recall by now the exact name of that now vanished thread), and wrote a message telling about this login problem, and strongly suggesting that the login procedure for the new forums was kept completely separtate from the Adobe Store one.


Some other people from "this side" (ex Adobe forums) also noticed this logout problem at "the other side" (Kath, I seem to remember you were one of them), but after many workrounds were posted, I finally remained as the one poster affected by it. Fearing that this could make my more important request to be forgotten, during the next months (more than a year?), I posted it several more times as a separate suggestion: please keep the login procedure to the new forums completely separate from the one of the Adobe Store. Unfortunately, and as so many excellent suggestions posted in that thread by many other people, it was not taken into account.


By the way, in those months I could also observe how the format of the Adobe Store site became more and more loaded with needless additions, like "fancy" gray backgrounds, large black boxes, and the like; and how many of these additions were carried over to "the other side". Which wouldn't have been so bad if loading times hadn't increased accordingly. My posts asking for the format of the new forums to be kept as simple as possible, though echoed by many, were also ignored, but then this is another story. Or is is?


To end this already too long post: during the test period, I was one of the many who warned repeatedly of the danger of losing many of the most valuable collaborators of these forums because of the incredible slowness  and poor functionallity of the new design. You may blame it on my aging memory if I am wrong, but I could swer that I read more than once semi official replies in the sense that this was a calculated risk of Adobe, and that any loses, however regretable, would soon be replaced by new users.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 24, 2009 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 24, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

There really should be laws against being this bucket stupid. Maybe now that Goob and Chaney are out...

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 24, 2009 0
Mentor ,
May 24, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Claudio González wrote:


By the way, in those months I could also observe how the format of the Adobe Store site became more and more loaded with needless additions, like "fancy" gray backgrounds, large black boxes, and the like; and how many of these additions were carried over to "the other side". Which wouldn't have been so bad if loading times hadn't increased accordingly. My posts asking for the format of the new forums to be kept as simple as possible, though echoed by many, were also ignored, but then this is another story. Or is it?


I don't know if you remember Macromedia site. They tend to have dark grays, blacks and so on.

Makes you wonder if the takeover was Adobe over Macromedia, or Macromedia over Adobe.

There have been a lot of things that make it look as if, Macromedia tookover Adobe, and just used the Adobe name.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 24, 2009 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
May 24, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

PjonesCET wrote:

Claudio González wrote:


By the way, in those months I could also observe how the format of the Adobe Store site became more and more loaded with needless additions, like "fancy" gray backgrounds, large black boxes, and the like; and how many of these additions were carried over to "the other side". Which wouldn't have been so bad if loading times hadn't increased accordingly. My posts asking for the format of the new forums to be kept as simple as possible, though echoed by many, were also ignored, but then this is another story. Or is it?


I don't know if you remember Macromedia site. They tend to have dark grays, blacks and so on.

Makes you wonder if the takeover was Adobe over Macromedia, or Macromedia over Adobe.

There have been a lot of things that make it look as if, Macromedia tookover Adobe, and just used the Adobe name.

PJ, what I was saying is precisely that the ex MM ("the other side") forums were gradually filled with more grays, blacks, and the like, following suite with the successive "embellishments" of the Adobe Store site, which now also takes ages to load. (*)

(*) Addition: about the same 15 seconds these forums take to download. Coincidence?

Message was edited by: Claudio González. Reason: addition.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 24, 2009 0
Adobe Employee ,
May 25, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

The idea with having a single login between forums and the rest of Adobe.com was to provide a shared experience and tighter integration with other areas of the site. The points system is a good example of this - other community areas of Adobe.com leverage a points system for contribution/participation, and Adobe Forums are part of this overall program.

When we were on the old forums, Macromedia/Fusetalk forums the common Adobe ID account for your login and password. If you were on Web Crossing, you had a completely different login/password that was separate from the Macromedia forums or anything else on Adobe.com. It didn't make any sense from a customer perspective to have two different accounts to access Adobe Forums. I know there were many of you who stayed almost exclusively on one side of the fence (Fusetalk/WebCrossing) so this really didn't seem like an issue, but for the average customer looking for help, it was confusing for them to know which login to use.

The way WebCrossing accounts were managed was not ideal either - John had to manage lost passwords and general day-to-day account management himself. We had customers calling in asking for help logging in, and these would end up all going to John because they could not be managed like the rest of our Adobe.com accounts. Now - if you have trouble with your Adobe ID, you can reset your password or contact Customer Service for help. This removes an administrative burden from John and frees up his time to manage more important issues.

Eliminating this confusion with the login and then consolidating all the forums onto a singular platform were key parts of our recent forums project. That said, I acknowledge that especially for those who were primarily Web Crossing users, losing the permanent login was a big change. The login/timeout behavior is still not working consistently for everyone and it is something we are actively working on. I realize many of you are frustrated and rightly so when you are losing content while posting and getting timed out while actively using Forums. We are definitely experiencing some teething troubles now that we're tied into using the Adobe ID for login, but we will get that resolved so that it's working more consistently and we are working towards ways to extend the timeout without compromising security for other areas of Adobe.com that are more sensitive (like the Adobe Store).

Separating the login is not something we are currently considering. We've worked really hard to consolidate the accounts and all the forums together, and provide tighter integration with other areas of Adobe.com. The only analogy I can think of is that we really feel like you guys shouldn't have a dozen keys to get into a dozen doors, but that you should be able to use one key to get into Adobe regardless of which door or room you're going into.

Hope that helps!

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 25, 2009 0
Mentor ,
May 25, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I don't necessarily want a shared experience. I don't want to log into Adobe.com (store) to gain access to to forums. the only time I need to log into adobe.com is if I am purchasing a product or downloading Flash player or some other player.

And because of all this mixing and mushing and such, I have two accounts, I only need one. The one I am using now. The other is tied to the old Macromedia account.

And after I am logged into Forum 20 minutes I am logged  out of adobe com in 20 minutes.

Also because of this I have to deal with login in every day sometimes two and three times a day.

Also because of this sometimes the counter doesn't have sense enough to know, I clicked on reply and after I construct a reply taking 10-20 minutes  to write,  especially in the Acrobat forum for Mac everything goes poof and receive a nasty message you are no permitted to post in this forum at this time. Turns out I've been logged out.

The least you can do is have some code that notices click of reply and suspends log out until about 30 seconds to a minute after the post command has been clicked.

Then someone won't swear at the computer and throw against wall after spending time constructing an answer and all is lost.

And who's to say because you have a different login server for each that two department have to handle, one department can handle two.

I understand your corporate logic in your reply . But you (adobe) don't understand our customer logic wanting them un-tied. We feel if they were separated some of our problems with the forums might disappear

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 25, 2009 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
May 25, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Thank you, Kanguyen, for your detailed explanation.

I agree that having a single loging procedure for all the forums was logic and necessary. However, I still completely fail to understand the logic behind tying the Adobe Store and the Forums login procedures. By its very nature, the former needs strong security measures that are not only unnecessary, but also completely absurd in a public forum. I gladly accept being logged out of my bank account and of the  Adobe Store after a fixed period of inactivity. However, I see no reason for, and strongly object to, being logged out of any public forum after any period of time.


The cherry of the pie is that the present version of these forums was forced upon us, ignoring most if not all of its users's suggestions, when it was still very far from being fully functional. So, at present, we are not only logged out without need, but also unpredictably, at any time, and even while  fully active.


If this was the only problem of this uncooked nightmare...

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 25, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 25, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Thank you Kanguyen - especially for not talking down.

However, what I would like is to be permanently logged in to the forums - and from more than one computer, as I was in the 'olden' days. I have no problem at all being asked to log in again if I go to any area of adobe.com which needs more security. Amazon can do it

I'm sure everyone appreciates all the work that has been put into this, but I still feel that the time will come when it has to be acknowledged that this system just isn't going to work. I suppose it depends on how much Adobe cares about the valuable contributors who have left or will leave, with the consequent major hit for the customer support services, who will have to try to pick up the slack of people needing help.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 25, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
May 25, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Ms Nguyen

All your lengthy explanation does is to repeat what we have told before and to re-iterate that Adobe has made a decision, guided by reasonable motives but not properly thought out, that has alienated the majority of frequent posters who use the web interface.


And of course in a separate issue you have alienated NNTP users completely.


Well done Adobe, you are maintaining your abysmal standards in customer relations.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 25, 2009 0
Enthusiast ,
May 26, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

The idea with having a single login between forums and the rest of Adobe.com was to provide a shared experience and tighter integration with other areas of the site.

don't want or need. as phil said. want to tie everything together? fine. just don't include THE STORE with that.

John had to manage lost passwords and general day-to-day account management himself. We had customers calling in asking for help logging in, and these would end up all going to John because they could not be managed like the rest of our Adobe.com accounts. Now - if you have trouble with your Adobe ID, you can reset your password or contact Customer Service for help

that's an internal training issue. are you trying to say it's easier to revamp the entire forum than it would have been to allow your phone reps to log into your site and reset passwords? please don't. i have a help desk 10 feet from me. they do it all the time when the automated reset systems fail. across  multiple platforms.

Separating the login is not something we are currently considering.

fair enough. at least that's clear.thank you.

john's post above was correct.

All your lengthy explanation does is to repeat what we have told before and to re-iterate that Adobe has made a decision, guided by reasonable motives but not properly thought out, that has alienated the majority of frequent posters who use the web interface.


And of course in a separate issue you have alienated NNTP users completely.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 26, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 25, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

JayJhabrix wrote on 2009-05-24 08:05:

This common login is supposed to be one reason why Adobe can't implement NNTP. But what function does it serve?

It reduces the number of accounts people have to remember. I am very

glad I do not have to have separate accounts for the Adobe site, the

WebX forums, the Fusetalk forums, the Acrobat.com site, the

Photoshop.com site, the trainers portal, the Community portal, the

Partner portal etc.

I remember the days those were all different accounts and I am glad they

are gone. I can't wait until the prerelease site and the EDS site are

fixed to work with the Adobe ID as well.

Am sure, that even at this stage, it wouldn't be too difficult to separate the two.

Technically that isn't really difficult. It is about as difficult as

rewriting it from scratch to use proper, proven, cryptographically safe

protocols that allow for differentiating the login timeout between

different areas of the site, allow for cascaded trust levels (because

you are logged in to the store and the store has high trust, you are

logged in to the forums, but the low trust forums don't log you in to

the high trust store), provide API access so we don't have to reverse

engineer HTML junk etc.

But separating them just isn't going to happen. And you know it isn't,

because it isn't a technical decision but a policy choice. So I would

very much appreciate if you stopped whining and detracting attention

from issues that do stand a chance of changing.

Jochem

--

Jochem van Dieten

http://jochem.vandieten.net/

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 25, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 25, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Jochem, the only reason (IMO) people persist with what you rather offensively describe as whining is that separating the log-in/IDs is the only way less technically qualified people than you, know of that the problem might be solved.

I'm sure that people would quite happily live with a common ID - as long as they could have the 'levels of trust' you describe, so they could stay logged in to everything except the 'high trust' areas *all the time* - which is what the WebX people are used to.

It's a perfectly reasonable 'policy decision' - *providing the system can still work as people want and expect*.

If the policy cannot be satisfactorily implemented, there will inevitably be consequences that Adobe may, in the end, decide are not worth dealing with.

The real heavy lifters in the forums save Adobe a ton of money in terms of customer support. If the bean counters can count, eventually they will have to acknowledge that.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 25, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 25, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Kath-H wrote on 2009-05-26 06:54:

Jochem, the only reason (IMO) people persist with what you rather offensively describe as whining

I think I am being nice when I call it whining. Because the answer has

been given, and is just not accepted. All fine with me, continue all you

want about the subject for all I care, but opening thread after thread

on the topic so you negate any possible filter people may have to filter

out the messages and drown other topics in noise cold just as easily be

called sabotaging. Not to mention opening all the "free points" topics.

Jochem

--

Jochem van Dieten

http://jochem.vandieten.net/

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 25, 2009 0
Engaged ,
May 26, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

jochemd wrote:

It reduces the number of accounts people have to remember. I am very

glad I do not have to have separate accounts for the Adobe site, the

WebX forums, the Fusetalk forums, the Acrobat.com site, the

Photoshop.com site, the trainers portal, the Community portal, the

Partner portal etc.

I remember the days those were all different accounts and I am glad they

are gone. I can't wait until the prerelease site and the EDS site are

fixed to work with the Adobe ID as well.

Well, that's a bit idiotic... i'd just use the same one for all and keep only critical ones, such as the store separate. Infact, that's what i do even now... irrespective of the forum, the login is virtually identical.

They could still have two ids. One for the store and one for everywhere else. In any case, my store id is different as it's tied to my accounts / tax info. Sure it's the same with most people. The tax part at least...

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
May 26, 2009 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
May 26, 2009

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

jochemd wrote: