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Why doesn't everyone just ditch this place?

Advocate ,
Aug 16, 2009

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Start up 3rd party forums elsewhere for a few major Adobe products, with software that meets these requirements:

- Must work

(i.e. Any forums other than Jiveware. )

Everybody knows competition makes you better, perhaps that's what Adobe needs right about now.  Problem solved! 

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Why doesn't everyone just ditch this place?

Advocate ,
Aug 16, 2009

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Start up 3rd party forums elsewhere for a few major Adobe products, with software that meets these requirements:

- Must work

(i.e. Any forums other than Jiveware. )

Everybody knows competition makes you better, perhaps that's what Adobe needs right about now.  Problem solved! 

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Aug 16, 2009 0
Mentor ,
Aug 17, 2009

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I'm watching the train wreck.

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Valorous Hero ,
Aug 17, 2009

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Hi all

While I'm sure some of you are viewing things here as a train wreck, a great many folks are finding helpful and timely responses in the assorted fora offered by Adobe.

Sincerely... Rick

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Aug 17, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Aug 17, 2009

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It is interesting that most of the complaints about falling standards and dwindling participation come from the Photoshop area.

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Mentor ,
Aug 17, 2009

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John Joslin wrote:

It is interesting that most of the complaints about falling standards and dwindling participation come from the Photoshop area.

the oldest part of the forum.

I posted this in the Joke thread. I really think this is a calculated move by Adobe.

Its funny go to the Mac Photoshop forum I have never seen so many unanswered questions. And a lot of the answers are the blind leading the blind. I just don't care anymore, Why should I? Adobe doesn't care. I'm convinced Adobe has done this because their revenue is down not selling enough CS4s, a crappy forum will will drive people to spend money at tech support instead of come here. I also have a feeling that CS5 will not sell well either. Since its only Intel friendly. It should have been a Universal Binary like CS3 and 4. There are still many PowerMacs being used and with the down economy new computers just to use new Adobe software is not a priority. So we can see more layoffs and cutbacks at Adobe.

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Mentor ,
Aug 17, 2009

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Who among the disgruntled has the bucks, and the Serverspace to create their own newsgroups

You would have to have  the following Groups.

Group for Forum problems

Acrobat Mac

Acrobat PC

Reader (could be under acrobat)

DreamWeaver Mac

DreamWeaver PC

PhotoShop Mac

PhotoShop PC

Flash Mac

Flash PC

Indesign Mac

Indesign PC

A Goof-off Forum

It would be preferred if the products were supported were seprated into Mac and PC camps.

For some reasons the PC Folks think Mac people are a bunch of dummies. while most Mac people don't care one way or the other. we take attitude what ever floats your boat.

Oh, and most of all it should be NNTP allow signatures, and use HTML so That images can be inserted as need within the message. If you you use small compact size images should not tax your computer. After 30 days old images could be deleted  for space.

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Aug 17, 2009

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Wouldn't be that expensive PJ, just purchase one of the hundreds of forum hosting services out there. You could probably combine most of those forums until volume picked up, but that's really the problem--getting anyone there.

But I guess if most of the complaints from from the Photoshop forums, there IS an alternative now if you google "photoshop forums".  What sucks is that some products (the two I use) don't seem to have *any* active forums anywhere, except on stupid yahoo groups which is worse than Jive (if that's possible).

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Aug 17, 2009

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I use Acrobat & Dreamweaver & Photoshop & Premiere/Encore... and will continue to read/post in those 5 forums as long as I find information that helps me use the software

I don't much care about the look of the forums... webx was uncluttered and fast, but seems to have reached the limits of functioning, at least according to the postings saying why it had to be replaced

When Jive works... it's OK... but it too has is faults (general slowness due to all the scripting and inability to go back to where you last read being the two biggest faults, for me)

Since we the users have no choice... I just read/post (less due to slowness) with what Adobe provides

Complaining does no (or very little) good... we can't force Adobe to do anything

I'm more interested in using the software I have, and exchanging ideas with other users, than in complaining about the forums (see line above)

Even with the previous forum software there was an ongoing ebb-and-flow of good-vs-bad answers... new people come in and post what they know, or think they know, and the world goes on

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Aug 17, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Aug 17, 2009

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John T Smith wrote:

Even with the previous forum software there was an ongoing ebb-and-flow of good-vs-bad answers... new people come in and post what they know, or think they know, and the world goes on

True, but all the people I ever learned anything from have gone.

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Valorous Hero ,
Aug 17, 2009

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Hi there

Since I've been taught this by my own spritual leaders, I'm fond of it ... You cannot possibly move forward while you are looking backward.

Perhaps it's time for you to become akin to one of those you are bemoaning. Shift gears and become the master, not a student?

Additionally, sometimes it's helpful to see new blood. Sometimes they aren't painted into their own mental corners and cause you to think in new ways that become amazing in and of themselves.

There is good in everyone and everything. You just have to be willing to see and accept it.

Sincerely... Rick

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Aug 17, 2009

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There's always a choice if there's enough support, we aren't living under communism... (I think).

Seriously though, if there were about 20-30 people who were moderate to expert in at least 4-5 major Adobe products that were interested, they could probably start up a successful alternative forum if there's really interest in it.  There's enough free forum services out there to try it for nothing, not sure if they support NNTP-like access though.

It's not about the look of the forums, it's about the general usability which is fairly pathetic.  We still have basic login problems for crying out loud..

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Aug 17, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Aug 17, 2009

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There have always been a lot of parallel forums but Adobe used to be the best at all levels.


For Photoshop and Photography, that era ended with the advent of jive. 

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Mentor ,
Aug 17, 2009

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Ansury wrote:

Wouldn't be that expensive PJ, just purchase one of the hundreds of forum hosting services out there. You could probably combine most of those forums until volume picked up, but that's really the problem--getting anyone there.

But I guess if most of the complaints from from the Photoshop forums, there IS an alternative now if you google "photoshop forums".  What sucks is that some products (the two I use) don't seem to have *any* active forums anywhere, except on stupid yahoo groups which is worse than Jive (if that's possible).

It was just a theoretical suggestion. I started it out by asking Who of the dsgruntled sers here has the funds and server space ....

I'm sure it could be. I know it would be for me. but some of these other people that have day or night jobs or run their own copmany migh pull it off.

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Mentor ,
Aug 17, 2009

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RoboWizard wrote:

Perhaps it's time for you to become akin to one of those you are bemoaning. Shift gears and become the master, not a student?

Well Padawan learner, that's the point why should we who have been teaching all these many years put up with this crap? JJ is one of the teachers.

Additionally, sometimes it's helpful to see new blood. Sometimes they aren't painted into their own mental corners and cause you to think in new ways that become amazing in and of themselves.

New blood is great when they know what they are talking about. When there is supervision they can be corrected when they screw up. That supervision has gone, so all you are left with is the blind leading the blind.

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Aug 17, 2009

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Blind leading the blind is a recipe for a destroyed user base.

PJ - how much do you think it would cost?  I think it could be done for free or probably $5-$10 a month, those services aren't that expensive.  Maybe if you're talking mega-bandwidth or fancy features but that certainly wouldn't be a problem to start.  The problem might be finding something that supports an NNTP type interface.  So like I said, all we'd need is a decent sized list of people, and maybe a little advertising money to attract users (or some subversive users remaining here and directing people to the new location after answering their questions ).

But this should have been tried months ago, before all the old users left.  (Btw, add a Flex/AIR forum to that list. )

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Aug 17, 2009

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Well JJ it certainly sounds like Adobe has readjusted the bar pretty low.  If I were a betting type I'd bet that some of the advanced users moved to alternative 3rd party forums already.

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Valorous Hero ,
Aug 17, 2009

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Hi Buko

I'm not sure what you mean by Padawan learner. Please clarify. I am familiar with Star Wars.

I've been around the block a time or two. I guess I'd qualify as a Jedi Master with my own products. (RoboHelp and Captivate) I earn my living by facilitating classes on them. But if I were to approach Flash or Photoshop, indeed I'm much less than a Padawan. Such is life!

You said JJ is one of the teachers. That's fine. But it was JJ's post that was bemoaning the loss of anyone he learned from. This seemed to infer he wanted to learn more and wasn't going to because they were gone.

It's been my own experience that if a forum thread ends up with a blind leading the blind situation, group consensus will eventually override and provide a good outcome. I can't recall ever seeing a post that totally screwed someone up where the eventual outcome was just wrong and others would fall into the same trap.

It's best to keep in mind that we were ALL new once. And if you don't find yourself being a newbie yourself from time to time, you aren't growing. You are stagnant. That's not generally a good place to be! I like to grow.

Cheers... Rick

(Who is a happy Fireworks neophyte at the moment)

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Aug 17, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Aug 17, 2009

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I have been using Photoshop since Version 3.0.


I am still learning. (Or I was!)   

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Mentor ,
Aug 17, 2009

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Well for being a master you certainly have a rookie mindset. I wish you well teaching everyone.

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Aug 17, 2009

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RoboWizard wrote:

It's been my own experience that if a forum thread ends up with a blind leading the blind situation, group consensus will eventually override and provide a good outcome.

Perhaps, but the difference is 20 extra posts and a few collective hours of 'newbie' time vs. a fewer number of posts and quick, high quality answers. 

Productivity is clearly going down with the Titanic in this type of situation.  Jive being the iceburg. 

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Valorous Hero ,
Aug 17, 2009

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Please do expound on the rookie mindset. I'm genuinely curious. And thanks for the well wishes. One can never have too much good karma!

My class reviews are always favorable. Then again, I never claim to know it all about anything. I feel that's a crucial component.

I suppose I have a rookie mindset because I don't choose to bemoan the forums? I just see the changes as being what you choose to make of them. They are what they are. I can report things to Adobe that don't seem to be working right. I might report them once and expect that by doing so they have seen and heard my report.

Sure, I could stomp off and totally forget about helping anyone else with products because I don't like the forums. But who would I really be hurting? Adobe? Not really. Who I would be hurting are those that come here to seek assistance with odd situations. Why would I want to inflict bad will toward them is beyond me.

Anyone may choose to stop participating at any point in time for any reason. Personally, I choose to stay and help because I recall being in similar shoes when I started out. And I'm happy that folks were there that saw fit to extend me a hand in my own time of need. I prefer to see it as paying it forward and helping others. I also feel that it helps me to retain my Community Expert status. (I'm also a Certified Expert in my products as well as a Certified Trainer)

Whatever the rest of you do, I wish you most of all peace and harmony. Give things time and room, they will settle.

I choose a calm and quiet path. One that seeks balance... Rick

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Aug 17, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Aug 17, 2009

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Rick


I am sure you are a very talented guy (you certainly have a lot of pretty badges anyway).


However you shouldn't jump to conclusions and you shouldn't assume that what applies in your forums applies in others.


The Photoshop gang (I hesitate to use the word community for obvious reasons) has lost 90% of its valuable members and the convenience of a zippy, functional forum software.


We don't get any solace from pious words from people who don't understand that.

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Mentor ,
Aug 17, 2009

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What JJ said.

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Valorous Hero ,
Aug 17, 2009

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LOL, it's funny you interpreted my words as being pious. I never intended them to be that way.

I think what we are seeing here is a difference in forum behavior. From my standpoint, the forums did nothing but improve. I'm really sad to see that so many folks percieve it so differently. Then again, I'm also aware that Adobe had two or three different forum platforms. So the platform I came from was likely different than the one you came from. I never experienced your platform so I have no real frame of reference.

There was lots of discussion about the loss of NNTP by some of the other Community Experts. Discussion that was quite heated at times. And demonstrations of how those folks used NNTP and how much easier and more effective it was in their minds. I recall watching one such session and thinking how it basically mirrored what I already did with basic E-Mail subscriptions. So from that aspect nothing changed. At least for me. I have to say that after having watched it, I'm really surprised at how frustrated folks were with the replacement. They claimed that E-Mail was not the same as Newsgroups. That part I understood but failed to see how it was all that much different from sorting in E-Mail. Then again, I know how difficult it can be to adapt to a different way of thinking once your mind has been made up.

It is unfortunate that there has been a loss of valuable members in the fora you frequent. I don't assume that everything translates directly. But I do find it odd that Adobe has 80+ different products. Yet what it would seem from the verbalization here is that Photoshop constitutes 99% of Adobe's business. I'm not totally convinced that's the case.

To me, the bottom line is that if everyone takes a deep breath and gives it time, it will stabilize. Will it be as fast as what you had before? Probably not. It would seem that any time you add more features, you sacrifice speed. I'm confident the folks at Adobe are doing the best they can with what they have been given. I know I certainly wouldn't want to be in their shoes trying to decide on a scalable platform that would work for everyone. It would seem to be a no-win choice. You choose this product and X number of users will be unhappy. You choose Y product and N number of users will be happy. It's always a compromise.

I will admit that some of the gizmos mean nothing to me and add no value. For example, the points system, list of Top Participants and the "More like this". I can easily ignore those things easy enough.

I do tend to find that the more pleasant I am about things, the better the service is I receive. It costs me nothing extra to smile and it may just make someone's crummy day a smidgeon better as a result.

Cheers... Rick

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Aug 17, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Aug 17, 2009

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Yet what it would seem from the verbalization here is that Photoshop constitutes 99% of Adobe's business. I'm not totally convinced that's the case.

Nobody is claiming that  – come on!


It is however, like it or not, the "flagship" product!


And the ship seems to be sinking – not helped by crappy support.

I know I certainly wouldn't want to be in their shoes trying to decide on a scalable platform that would work for everyone.

They decided and, unfortunately, it was an EPIC FAIL – to quote the vernacular.


Keep trying Rick, but you won't convince the Photoshop gang! 

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Mentor ,
Aug 17, 2009

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I don't have the slightest idea what running a NTTP server would cost.

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Contributor ,
Aug 17, 2009

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Robo,

From my standpoint, the forums did nothing but improve. I'm really sad to see that so many folks percieve it so differently

That suggests to me that you have NOT spent as much time in the Photoshop forum as many of the regular "gang" did.  These forums did nothing but *dissolve*, not improve.  When you lose the caliber of users that have been lost since April, *someone* should take stock of that.

Unfortunately, Adobe isn't taking that stock and that's a damn shame.

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Aug 17, 2009

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Wow Rick, a whole essay? 

My attention span is too short to read all that, buuuuut... saying a product doesn't constitute most of Adobe's business is a pretty lame excuse for standing by while it's support community is destroyed.  Some day I may become a Photoshop user (it is the standard...for now) and one of the first things I check before I buy something that expensive is how good the community support forums are.  Right now, were I to be in the market for that type of software, I'd probably pass Photoshop by.

PJ - me either, support for that feature could possibly push the price up to "not worth it" levels, yeah.

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Aug 17, 2009

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RoboWizard wrote:

From my standpoint, the forums did nothing but improve.

Wait, this comment is pretty Jived up so I need to single it out.

(ouch, if you were an NNTP user)

How much is Jive paying you? 

From wha...what standpoint?  That of a Jive salesman?  Or the standpoint as in, you're standing on the ISS viewing the forums on Earth?

lawl.jpg

(So sorry, just a joke, don't take it personally.. lol)

Note: Photoshop was NOT used during the time that was wasted in the making of this graphic.

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Aug 17, 2009 0
New Here ,
Aug 17, 2009

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PjonesCET wrote:

I don't have the slightest idea what running a NTTP server would cost.

The problem is that most inexpensive hosting services do not support NNTP hosting.  I use Hostmonster.com to host a couple dozen websites.  It's affordable with many features, but does not include NNTP.  I did a quick search and found Newshosting.com, but according to the online sales literature, each port is $10 per month with a minimum of 10 ports for an account, or $100 per month.  Are there any NNTP hosting services that are price competitive with services like Hostmonster.com?

Best,

Christopher

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Aug 18, 2009

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CHRISTOPHER GLAESER wrote on 8/18/2009 8:13 AM:

PjonesCET wrote :

>> I don't have the slightest idea what running a NTTP server would cost.

The problem is that most inexpensive hosting services do not support NNTP hosting.

NNTP is a bit different from other protocols in that the hosting itself

is distributed worldwide and free if you post in you use any of the big

Usenet hierarchies. You just post to Usenet and it gets propagated

worldwide and stored on servers automatically. People just need to find

their own NNTP server to download the content from. If you don't have

that, costs can be anywhere between $1 and $20 per month to get access.

I did a quick search and found Newshosting.com, but according to the online sales literature, each port is $10 per month with a minimum of 10 ports for an account, or $100 per month.

And for that you get a download capacity of 10 ports, probably at

128kbit/s, or 360 GB per months. That sort of setup is really aimed at

ISPs who want to offer binary downloads to their customers through a

caching frontend.

Are there any NNTP hosting services that are price competitive with services like Hostmonster.com?

Go to slicehost or any other VPS hoster, get a VPS, install INN (or if

you are looking for really basic NNTP software James) and run your own

NNTP server. Then find one of the dozen more or less complete PHP

webforums that integrate with NNTP and run that for your web frontend.

If you want mailinglist integration, I recommend mailman.

All software mentioned is available free of charge, you just pay for the

VPS hosting account.

Jochem

--

Jochem van Dieten

http://jochem.vandieten.net/

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Aug 18, 2009 0
New Here ,
Aug 18, 2009

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jochemd wrote:

Go to slicehost

Slick!!!

Best,

Christopher

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Aug 18, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 05, 2009

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Phillip's list of necessary fora

Phillip,

You forgot us poor schlubs on the Premiere Pro forum. What would we do for fun?

Hunt

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Sep 05, 2009 0
Mentor ,
Sep 05, 2009

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the_wine_snob wrote:

Phillip's list of necessary fora

Phillip,

You forgot us poor schlubs on the Premiere Pro forum. What would we do for fun?

Hunt

Oh yeah! That one of the forums I was sumarily dumped in just for following a Thread.  I believe you were one of the ones that welcomed me to the Forum. I had to ask before I unsubscribed to the thread and the group what group was about.

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Sep 05, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 05, 2009

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I believe you were one of the ones that welcomed me to the Forum. I had to ask before I unsubscribed to the thread and the group what group was about.

See, we are not the Visigoths, that some make us out to be.

Since I also speak PS, AI, InDesign, PageMaker, Flash, Dreamweaver and a bit of Acrobat, I can often at least point the poor lost souls in the right direction with a tip, or two, and then get them the proper forum's URL.

I also realized that you, and some others fell through that same rabbit hole and were wondering what the heck a Premiere even was, let alone why/how they had ended up there.

I do wish that Adobe would look into the why/how so many end up in the totally wrong place (like wanting PS and ending up here). I do not know if it's road signs that these folk just miss, or if there is some incorrect pathway. Until whatever is afoot is addressed, I just think that the MOD's will have a bit of extra work (work that they should not be sidled with) and those forum regulars will just have to be understanding and helpful with their directions - "turn left at the Dreamweaver forum and proceed down the hall to the PS forum... "

Hunt

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Sep 05, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 06, 2009

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the_wine_snob wrote:

I do wish that Adobe would look into the why/how so many end up in the totally wrong place (like wanting PS and ending up here). I do not know if it's road signs that these folk just miss, or if there is some incorrect pathway. Until whatever is afoot is addressed, I just think that the MOD's will have a bit of extra work (work that they should not be sidled with) and those forum regulars will just have to be understanding and helpful with their directions - "turn left at the Dreamweaver forum and proceed down the hall to the PS forum... "

Hunt

Hi Hunt

This is why we so often ask the OP how they managed to end up posting where they did. And all too often, we hear nothing but crickets in return.

When we began moderating our own areas, we gained a new capability. A refreshing one. We could begin changing the look and feel of our fora. Many of us posted links to other information. FAQs, stuff like that. In some cases, instead of creating our own content, we pointed to existing threads as there seemed to be no need to reinvent the wheel if what you wanted said was already said well. So we pointed to existing threads. The problem with that, however, is that the good user will follow such threads and the threads are in the Comments forum. They have done as asked and are now ready to post. But the Create a Discussion link is often the one for the Comments forum.

That's one major way I've seen listed. there may be others I suppose.

Cheers... Rick

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Sep 06, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 06, 2009

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The problem with that, however, is that the good user will follow such threads and the threads are in the Comments forum. They have done as asked and are now ready to post. But the Create a Discussion link is often the one for the Comments forum.

Rick,

That is a potential problem, that I had not anticipated. Thanks for the insight.

I also use the linking method very often. In one forum, I post many FAQ-like articles, but with much more detail for common situations. That forum's Tips & Tricks sub-forum is a great repository for those. Most often, they span a couple of Adobe applications, like Premiere Elements, Premiere, Premiere Pro and often Photoshop. To date, no user, new, or otherwise, has posted there from those articles, but I now see the potential. Some DO post replies to those articles, when they really should be posting to the main forum with their unique problem, but the MOD there is good at moving those threads, and we all explain the why for posting to a new and unique thread in the main forum.

We do get a few posts to the Tips & Tricks, but in all cases the OP thought that by posting there, they were asking for Tips & Tricks, not realizing that this was for sharing Tips & Tricks.

[Edit] We get about the same number of erroneous posts to the FAQ sub-forum, even though there are stickies asking people to NOT post there.

Still, thanks for sharing a perspective that I had not considered.

Hunt

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Sep 06, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 06, 2009

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FAQs, articles and resources sould be locked with no opportunity to reply.


The originators and editors being the only ones with the authorisation to change them. (not even moderators – what do they know?  )


There was a separate thread for comments/suggestions.


That's how it was in the old Photoshop forum and it worked.


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Sep 06, 2009 0
Mentor ,
Sep 06, 2009

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John Joslin wrote:

FAQs, articles and resources sould be locked with no opportunity to reply.


The originators and editors being the only ones with the authorisation to change them. (not even moderators – what do they know?  )


There was a separate thread for comments/suggestions.


That's how it was in the old Photoshop forum and it worked.


Yes, but those of us who had the power to make FAQs no longer have them, not even to make changes to old FAQs so they can be updated to include new software. That is stupid! yet Mod powers have been granted Willy Nilly to people who I never heard of before this forum change.

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Sep 06, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 06, 2009

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FAQs, articles and resources sould be locked with no opportunity to reply.

John,

I agree with you. In many of the cases that I cited, the MOD has locked the threads. Though I do not have the power to make adjustments, corrections or addenda to them, I believe that if I sent a PM to that MOD, he would make the necessary changes.

Just today I added two tutorial URL's to a particular Tips & Tricks article, that was not yet locked.

I would like to see more locking of threads (where logical, as in this part of the discussion), but would also like for the originator to still have privileges to change, correct or otherwise modify those.

Hunt

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Sep 06, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 06, 2009

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but those of us who had the power to make FAQs no longer have them, not even to make changes to old FAQs so they can be updated to include new software.

I too see this as a problem. FAQ's should be evergreen as new formats, software changes, and the like can render them useless.

Maybe a "trusted cadre" could be developed? Otherwise it's a PM to the MOD.

Hunt

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Sep 06, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Sep 06, 2009

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the_wine_snob wrote on 9/6/2009 1:53 AM:

I do wish that Adobe would look into the why/how so many end up in the totally wrong place (like wanting PS and ending up here). I do not know if it's road signs that these folk just miss, or if there is some incorrect pathway.

The most likely culprit is the "New" button at the top of the page in

combination with links to the FAQ. If you have not posted before in the

forums, the New button doesn't show previous forums, only the current

one. When the user is presented with just one option, he obviously takes it.

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Sep 06, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 06, 2009

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Hi John

That's precisely what we did in the the two forums I help moderating.

Cheers... Rick

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Sep 06, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 06, 2009

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If you have not posted before in the forums, the New button doesn't show previous forums, only the current one. When the user is presented with just one option, he obviously takes it.

Ah, that is another conduit that I had not thought about.

I guess that it's tough to see things in the eyes of a brand new poster, especially one with a problem and maybe no forum experience outside of these.

Thanks, some good thoughts from the MOD's here. Maybe there are no rabbit holes, no wires crossed, just OE because they flew past several road signs.

Appreciated,

Hunt

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Sep 06, 2009 0
Participant ,
Sep 06, 2009

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Sep 06, 2009 0
Enthusiast ,
Sep 06, 2009

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a

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Sep 06, 2009 0
Advocate ,
Aug 17, 2009

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There is a Photoshop Group on Facebook that was created and is used by many members.

A lot of PS lounge members are members of this group, but must of us are all on each others friends list and usually just ask any questions we have that way.

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Aug 17, 2009 0
Guru ,
Aug 17, 2009

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Maybe it is time for the forums to get a intervention session on A&E TV.

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Aug 17, 2009 0
New Here ,
Aug 26, 2009

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This is great advice - Hi All, we have decided to take the continued customer service problem with Adobe to Facebook, we created an event where open discussion can take place, please come and join and be part of a much needed change in Adobe's customer service practices, everyone is welcome to give input, so please pass the word -http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=123258472738

Owning a small business, I have relied on Adobe/Macromedia products for years, have been a return/loyal customer and spent thousands of dollars with them. Adobe's non service culture has directly impacted my business-I have had to decline contracts because I am in my 4th month of waiting for a cross platform product delivery. What about your work, have you lost business or money because of a service issue?

On a hopeful note, we're looking forward to Adobe's customer care team being part of the conversation as well. Here's what we'd like:

Respectful dialogue, true incidences - sure be assertive just don't be abusive.

We hope to urge Adobe to improve client service at the corporate level.

Thanks all-

Cindi

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Aug 26, 2009 0