Why Is Adobe discriminating their buyers?

New Here ,
Dec 12, 2011 Dec 12, 2011

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Hello!

I'm in process of opening a small video production studio. Wanting to make everything legal, I went to check prices of Adobe software.

Here in Croatia, where I'm located, Adobe Production Premium 5.5 is priced at 15.000 Kuna, which is cca. $3.000.

Then I checked Adobe online store and found same package at price of $1.700. But when I wanted to buy it, it was available only to US.

So, can anyone explain me why I have to pay almost double the price for same piece of software? And why isn't it available online for me to buy at $1.700?

As I found out by little research, average salary in US in 2010/2011. is around $70.000 which comes out around $5.800 a month.

Do you know what is average monthly salary in Croatia? Aprox. 5.500 Kn which is $1.000.

So, while someone in US can buy three Adobe packages in one month, I have to work three months to buy one.

Also, when I contacted our BSA and asked if I could buy software in US, import it and pay taxes for it, they said "No!".

And that "No!" is because Adobe decided to put “Only for distribution in North America” on bottom of their US boxes so that software is not legal in Croatia.

Same piece of code, same DVD, same box. But because of that sign on bottom of the box, I have to pay double the price.

I find that unfair. And I find hard to start any bussines with expenses I meet before I even start my own bussines.

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Most Valuable Participant ,
Dec 12, 2011 Dec 12, 2011

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The matter has been discussed at great length many times. No satisfactory answer has ever been given (higher prices are not related with taxes, with local average incomes, with piracy, with costs, or with any other more or less reasonable factor). And Adobe's pricing policies have never been explained, or modified in any way which favours the clients.

So the real answeer seems to be: that's the way things are, and Adobe couldn't care less about what non USA clents think.

Just one example to show that this is not a new or unknown issue:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/1642848#1642848

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LEGEND ,
Dec 13, 2011 Dec 13, 2011

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The only explanation I've heard which makes any sense is that it's due to the higher cost of operation in non-US countries. Basically, the cost of have an Adobe presence in country x  (or geographic region) gets figured into the cost of goods which drives up the price in that region.

This point is further driven home by the fact that Adobe is comprised of two (or more) sub entities. Adobe US and Adobe Europe are separate entities, and don't even always have the same EULAS...

If Adobe would figure their global cost into the cost of the goods, it'll probably drive the foreign prices down, but it will also drive the US prices up. Can Adobe afford to raise the US prices? Should their US customers suffer because Adobe is operating in other countries? Good questions, which don't have easy answers...

Harbs

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LEGEND ,
Dec 13, 2011 Dec 13, 2011

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Harbs wrote:

The only explanation I've heard which makes any sense is that it's due to the higher cost of operation in non-US countries. Basically, the cost of have an Adobe presence in country x  (or geographic region) gets figured into the cost of goods which drives up the price in that region.

Well, the other answer I have heard is that "it is what the market will bear."

Unfortunately that appears to make sense, too. [Unless I'm missing something...]

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LEGEND ,
Dec 14, 2011 Dec 14, 2011

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Well, the other answer I have heard is that "it is what the market will bear."

Unfortunately that appears to make sense, too. [Unless I'm missing something...]

Oh no.  We are talking about Croatia here and how can they bear the huge uplift in cost when they are trying to survive on $2 a day?

It is just bad business model as far as Adobe is concerned and that is why it has not been able to exploit the dominance with its good products.  Adobe needs to poach a marketing guru from Microsoft to get its products in the market place.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 12, 2011 Dec 12, 2011

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Sometimes it works out cheaper to make a trip to the USA to buy the necessary software and hardware!  We do it every year (from United Kingdom) to get the books, computers and certain software.

hth

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Enthusiast ,
Dec 14, 2011 Dec 14, 2011

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>The only explanation I've heard which makes any sense is that it's due to the higher cost of operation in non-US countries.

hmm... so every other american company in the country goes overseas, taking jobs out of the hands of americans, to save money, because it's orders of magnitude cheaper for them to operate overseas, but adobe loses money? i think they need better MBAs if that's the case. (so i doubt that it is. )

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Most Valuable Participant ,
Dec 14, 2011 Dec 14, 2011

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dave milbut wrote:

>The only explanation I've heard which makes any sense is that it's due to the higher cost of operation in non-US countries.

hmm... so every other american company in the country goes overseas, taking jobs out of the hands of americans, to save money, because it's orders of magnitude cheaper for them to operate overseas, but adobe loses money? i think they need better MBAs if that's the case. (so i doubt that it is. )

Frankly, I find it hard to believe that those higher costs (in turn, hard to believe in countries where labor and other costs are lower than in the USA) could account for price increases of the order of 50%...

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Enthusiast ,
Dec 14, 2011 Dec 14, 2011

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Claudio González wrote:

dave milbut wrote:

>The only explanation I've heard which makes any sense is that it's due to the higher cost of operation in non-US countries.

hmm... so every other american company in the country goes overseas, taking jobs out of the hands of americans, to save money, because it's orders of magnitude cheaper for them to operate overseas, but adobe loses money? i think they need better MBAs if that's the case. (so i doubt that it is. )

Frankly, I find it hard to believe that those higher costs (in turn, hard to believe in countries where labor and other costs are lower than in the USA) could account for price increases of the order of 50%...

yes sir. i agree 100%!

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Mentor ,
Dec 14, 2011 Dec 14, 2011

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Claudio González wrote:

dave milbut wrote:

>The only explanation I've heard which makes any sense is that it's due to the higher cost of operation in non-US countries.

hmm... so every other american company in the country goes overseas, taking jobs out of the hands of americans, to save money, because it's orders of magnitude cheaper for them to operate overseas, but adobe loses money? i think they need better MBAs if that's the case. (so i doubt that it is. )

Frankly, I find it hard to believe that those higher costs (in turn, hard to believe in countries where labor and other costs are lower than in the USA) could account for price increases of the order of 50%...

Maybe its That adobe thinks non-US people are too ignorant to pay attention.

I don't think that. But sounds like its their mentality.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 14, 2011 Dec 14, 2011

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I really have no interest in discussing a topic I know so little about, but cost is not just about labor. The addressable market has to get measured against the cost of operations.

It doesn't help you very much if it's cheap to keep up a presence if no-one is going to buy your goods...

We can keep discussing why Adobe does what they do, but frankly none of us have any clue. I've wasted enough of my limited mental capacity on this already...

Harbs

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Most Valuable Participant ,
Dec 14, 2011 Dec 14, 2011

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Harbs. wrote:

...

We can keep discussing why Adobe does what they do, but frankly none of us have any clue. I've wasted enough of my limited mental capacity on this already...

Harbs

Specially if the matter has  already been discussed at length, as in the link I gave in message #1... I am not sure that we have added anything new here.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 14, 2011 Dec 14, 2011

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I couldn't agree more...

Harbs

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Enthusiast ,
Dec 14, 2011 Dec 14, 2011

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Claudio González wrote:

Specially if the matter has  already been discussed at length, as in the link I gave in message #1... I am not sure that we have added anything new here.

but as some wise old adobeforums sage once said: nobody reads post #1!!!

good day all!

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Mentor ,
Dec 14, 2011 Dec 14, 2011

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But if we complain enough, often enough, maybe just maybe the  dumb . . .  uh people working at adobe will get the word.

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Most Valuable Participant ,
Dec 14, 2011 Dec 14, 2011

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Phillip Jones wrote:

maybe just maybe the  dumb . . .  uh people working at adobe will get the word.

Now that's not a very nice thing to say, is it?

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LEGEND ,
Dec 16, 2011 Dec 16, 2011

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What if you buy the Software from Amazon.co.uk where the price is £1,675 ($2,600)?

Or Amazon.de : €2,034 ($2,650)?

Well, at the end it's not much cheaper than if you buy it in your own country.

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Mentor ,
Dec 16, 2011 Dec 16, 2011

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There is another solution other folks have found:

They find a relative or friend who resides in the USA buy their software for them here in the USA and then have them just email the serial number to them, only the serial number.  They then download the trial version from the Adobe site and input their legitimately purchased serial number.  Since the actual media (DVDs) are not sent, there are no import duties or taxes to pay, no shipping charges to cover.  One email is all it takes.

The only thing needed is to transfer the necessary funds to the relative or friend in the USA to buy the software.

I know for a fact some folks in Europe and in Australia have saved themselves quite a bit of money that way.

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Most Valuable Participant ,
Dec 17, 2011 Dec 17, 2011

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But are they still themselves, then?

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Mentor ,
Dec 17, 2011 Dec 17, 2011

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Of course they are, Jacob.

They open their own account with Adobe and they register the software in their own, real name.  Adobe is never aware of the relative or friend who walks into a store to buy the application.

Note that I am talking about having a relative or friend buying the software at a USA store, the actual original DVD, NOT a "download" but an actual box with the software in it.

Instead of shipping the whole package to the actual buyer, the friend or relative just mails him or her the legitimately purchased serial number.

It has actually been done, it is not speculation or hypothesis.

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Most Valuable Participant ,
Dec 18, 2011 Dec 18, 2011

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I would say that Tai's workaround is about the only new thing that has been aded in this thread to this old discussion.

Fortunately, I have always at hand a friend or relative who travels to the USA, so they can bring me back the whole package at no cost, and therefore I had never thought of this alternative, but it is a very good one. I hate been charged an 50% just because I do not live in the USA.

The only drawback, for those who don't know any English, is that this way it is not possible to buy localized versions of programs. At least, as far as I know.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 18, 2011 Dec 18, 2011

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Claudio González wrote:

Fortunately, I have always at hand a friend or relative who travels to the USA, so they can bring me back the whole package at no cost

Do customs agents just ignore the goods these people are carrying then?  Aren't you asking them to lie a little to customs agents to physically bring such things into your country?  I've always thought that was pretty serious stuff, but I don't know for sure.

Note that I'm not against getting around a BS pricing policy that penalizes people outside the US - that's ludicrous.  I know that I price my own software products the same price worldwide.  I price them in US dollars and the current exchange rate at the time of purchase governs what people pay.

-Noel

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Most Valuable Participant ,
Dec 18, 2011 Dec 18, 2011

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Noel Carboni wrote:

Claudio González wrote:

Fortunately, I have always at hand a friend or relative who travels to the USA, so they can bring me back the whole package at no cost

Do customs agents just ignore the goods these people are carrying then?  Aren't you asking them to lie a little to customs agents to physically bring such things into your country?  I've always thought that was pretty serious stuff, but I don't know for sure.

Note that I'm not against getting around a BS pricing policy that penalizes people outside the US - that's ludicrous.  I know that I price my own software products the same price worldwide.  I price them in US dollars and the current exchange rate at the time of purchase governs what people pay.

-Noel

To your first question: Chilean customs agents ignore products that are not subject to customs taxes; software products and even computers for personal use are in this list. To your second one: no, my friends and relatives don't have to lie or try to hide the sofware because it's perfectly legal to bring in such things, as I have just explained.

In any case, customs officers seem nowadays more interested in drugs and weapons than in anything else. At least over here.

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Mentor ,
Dec 18, 2011 Dec 18, 2011

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Claudio González wrote:

I would say that Tai's workaround is about the only new thing that has been aded in this thread to this old discussion…

The only drawback, for those who don't know any English, is that this way it is not possible to buy localized versions of programs. At least, as far as I know.

That might be the case, but I'm not so sure.  I know for a fact you can buy boxed Photoshop in Spanish in stores here in the USA, where there are more native Spanish speakers than in some Ibero-American countries.  And the USA Adobe store offers boxed Photoshop in French or Spanish as well as in English.

____________

Wo Tai Lao Le

我太老了

Message was edited by: Tai Lao

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Mentor ,
Dec 18, 2011 Dec 18, 2011

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Screen shot from the Adobe store a few minutes ago:

Picture 2.png

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