Is this true... no point in more than 16GB & Windows is slower than Mac

[Chrisatom]

I have a pretty beefy PC with a 5960X, 32GB RAM and 3x 980ti GPUs (AE only uses 1 though). When using AE it felt laggy and struggled when trying to preview a project. I tried it on my mid-2015 Macbook Pro and to my surprise AE felt more responsive and previewed much faster. I rang tech support and he made the following claims that surprised me:

1. AE will never use more than 16GB RAM when working on a project so adding 64GB won't make a difference
2. AE isn't as quick/optimised on Windows as it is on Mac
3. The issues with AE on Windows will be resolved in the next update

Are these true? I've seen tests online where people use 128GB RAM and see speed improvements but would that only affect the final render? Is AE just not as good on a PC as it is on a Mac? Although the previews are still ever so slightly slower compared to the Macbook, it's less laggy now (the audio is out of sync at the start though) after he went into Preferences > Memory and changed it to 19.9GB for Adobe applications and 12GB for system. On my Macbook, I have 13GB for Adobe and 3GB for other applications.

I must admit I'm very confused by all this. I was planning on buying a new PC but this has certainly put the cat amongst the pigeons so to speak.

[Rick Gerard]

The fastest machine depends entirely on the project, the effects applied, the formats used and the build. There is no universal fastest for everything machine. Ram is always good. AE can use as much as it needs and it helps the length of Ram previews. Windows machines typically take more maintenance than a Mac and do not hold their retail value as well. I sold my first Intel iMac that I bought in January of 2006 to a client when I upgraded and it's still running the version of AE and Photoshop I sold with it 17 years ago. Both systems occasionally have real headaches with updates. My advice, figure out what you can afford, how much it is going to cost you to maintain and balance that with current performance levels. For the kind of work that I do, I'm still a Mac guy for almost everything and I don't spend a penny on maintenance because I trade up every second upgrade and the Mac's I use cost me less than the equivalent windows machines. For one of my applications (Autocad), I run a windows machine because I have to but the same considerations apply.

As far as fixing issues, some will be, some won't, and some new issues will likely appear. That's life in the computer business.

[Chrisatom]

Whilst I appreciate your response, Rick, that’s really just conjecture. I was looking for someone that might have been told by Adobe or for someone from Adobe to confirm that AE only ever uses 16gb and that it is better on macOS compared to windows... I personally doubt what the tech support advisor told me.

Regarding the effects and other variables that could be affecting the performance, it’s the same project without a single effect applied. It’s such a basic project and yet my PC cant seem to preview it right and I have had to reduce the RAM usage to only 19GB from 29GB.

I’ve always been a Mac user but 5 years ago I switched to Windows and have had a nightmare experience when I bought my second Windows machine 2 years ago. I’ve always been told that once you’re in the software, the difference is non-existent and so it surprised me when the advisor told me that macOS was better for AE.

[P.M.B]

After Effects can utilize as much RAM as you throw at it.

Based on the info you provided I'd guess that your issue (or one of your issues) is the 3 GPUs.

I'd bet my lunch if you yank two of them your performance will improve dramatically.

Also your belief that 128gig of ram would only improve final render is completely backwards.

RAM will not effect final render times at all.  That's all CPU.

You don't need a new computer.  But if you get one I would suggest a Mac.

Not because AE runs better on Macs but because Macs run better for people who don't know alot about computers.

And in my experience people using more than one GPU usually don't know much about computers. 

No offense.

[Chrisatom]

I know quite a bit about computers, so your theory is wrong. I use 3 GPUs for rendering with Octane/Redshift for Cinema 4D. The more GPUs, the faster render times. Unfortunately, I know After Effects makes little use of GPUs (let alone multi-GPUs) so in the Nvidia Control Panel AE is set to only use one.

[P.M.B]

Chrisatom  wrote

I know quite a bit about computers, so your theory is wrong. I use 3 GPUs for rendering with Octane/Redshift for Cinema 4D. The more GPUs, the faster render times. Unfortunately, I know After Effects makes little use of GPUs (let alone multi-GPUs) so in the Nvidia Control Panel AE is set to only use one.

Yup..multiple gpus are good for rendering application speficially designed for to utilize them but they should be in rig dedicated to rendering.  Not in an everyday use rig.  Pull two of them out then come back and tell me your performance didn;t improve.

[Rick Gerard]

The 16 GB limit is baloney. As far as I know, there has never been a limit. The only thing that limits the amount of memory needed to render a frame is the number of pixels in the frame and the number of elements you add to the frame. An HD frame is only 1920 X 1080 so unless you start throwing particles and movement into that frame it will never need more than that much memory to display.

The length of a ram preview, however, depends on the free ram. The more you have the longer the preview. It free memory does not have anything to do with render speed per frame or the memory required to calculate that frame. Here again, the statement that AE never uses more than 16 is nonsense.

Some builds have fewer problems on a Mac than on Windows and others have fewer problems on Windows than Mac. It's anybody's guess which system is going to perform better with the next update. So far, for me, It has not made much difference. My shop is 99% Mac but I sit in for various clients that are all on Windows machines and I can be as productive on either machine. The statement that Mac is better for AE would be just the opinion of that advisor. You'll get a lot of arguments on the other side and for some operations using some video formats that could usually be true, but change any parameter and the best OS could change. The difference is not non-existent. One OS will always be faster than the other doing the same thing on a machine with identical specs, but most of the time the difference is negligible. Sometimes it is significant, but in the past and most likely in the future, the fastest, least troublesome system will switch back and forth with each new version of the software until a manufacturer decides to no longer develop for both Mac and Windows the way Autodesk has done for their CAD software. The Mac version is really stripped down and they show no signs of porting the professional features over to the Mac. That's the only time I know of that you are left without a choice.

[Chrisatom]

Thanks Rick. In general, I do find my PC faster but it's just bizarre that a simple project fails to preview properly (stutters at the start and the green bar takes longer whereas the Macbook is flawless). It's even more bizarre that the advisor told me the laggy experience when previewing, moving keyframes and moving along the timeline was down to Windows being Windows.

I must admit, I do prefer macOS but the lack of support for Nvidia and the depreciation of OpenCL and OpenGL means I'm not confident enough to drop another 3-4K on a Mac but that's a whole other thread entirely.

[Chrisatom]

I will try it but it's already setup to only use one GPU with AE and I don't think you're familiar enough with GPU rendering with Redshift/Octane - they're not just being used for the final rendering (where a different rig would make sense). They speed up your workflow as you're working on projects via the viewport view. Using one GPU would yield a 2/3 reduction (roughly). Yes I could have a second Octane computer but that creates problems when it comes to having to have licenses over 3 machines (including my macbook).

Like I said, I'll test it with only 1 GPU but I really can't see it making any difference at all.

[P.M.B]

Maybe you;re right. Maybe I don't know enough.   May I ask what's the point using 3 GPUs while working in the viewport?  Is it real time final rendering quality while you work?

[Chrisatom]

More GPUs = more CUDA cores which speeds up final rendering and the live viewer (viewport) as you work. This allows you to see incredibly complex effects like motion blur, depth of field etc in real time. By using more GPUs it makes the whole process from starting the project to final renders so much quicker. Until clients get involved.

[Mike_Abbott]

As it happens I'm also on Windows ( Win 7 / 64) and also have a machine with 3x GPU's (1070 Ti's) for 3D rendering with Redshift. No problems here at all.  I use AE frequently across both Windows (7 and 10) and Mac OS - and don't detect any noticeable difference in performance across OS's comparing similiarly powered machines. And as Rick and Gutterfish say - that RAM limit advice of 16GB is simply wrong. The more RAM the better for AE.

I think you were given bad information by that tech support person.

Are you pulling a lot of video content off your disks for your previews? Do you have an SSD in your macbook but a mechanical HDD on your PC? 

[David Arbor]

As others have said above, unfortunately, Tech Support gave you bad information. There is no RAM limit for AE, it can use as much as you throw at it and it's not more optimized on the Mac.

The issues will be resolved in what next update, Windows or After Effects? To that end, what specific version of After Effects do you have?

Do you have a HiDPI display? There were bugs in previous versions with HiDPI displays on Windows. Are you running the latest version of After Effects?

Try going into the AE preferences>Display and turning off the Hardware Accelerate panels option to see if that helps.

Do you by any chance have Color Management turned on? That shouldn't cause a slowdown with the hardware accelerate comp panel option on, but it's worth checking.

As for multi-GPUs, even though AE is set to only use one, I feel like I recently heard someone having an issue with multiples, but I think it was related to driving a second display. Not sure, I know that's vague, sorry, but obviously if you're using Redshift then you want all three of them available.

I just switched back to Windows after using Macs for 10 years because I want to start using Cycles4D. My PC is much faster than my older iMac, but in general, After Effects performs very well on it.

[Chrisatom]

Thanks davidarbor

I tried everything else apart from removing the GPUs - I'll try that next.

It's certainly much faster than it was before I spoke to tech support. Before, if I moved through the timeline or dragged a keyframe the delay would be painfully obvious.

Thanks again for your reply.

[Chrisatom]

Hi Mike, thanks for your reply. Yeah, I did kind of getting the feeling he would have told me anything to get me off the call.

I use 3 SSDs for AE. All are Samsung Pro SSDs - 1 for the OS, 1 for the project files/media and 1 for caching. I know Apple's SSDs are known for being incredibly fast. Could that be the issue perhaps?

I'm just about to start the biggest project of my career and I'm trying to iron out any issues with the PC or just throw money at getting a new one with the 8086K and keep this one for rendering... which is a shame really as this rig cost me almost £5000.

[Mike_Abbott]

I certainly wouldn't throw any new money at this - you've got a good machine.

Just another random thought on this:

Are your monitor(s?) connected to just one of your GPU's, or connected to different GPU's?

If they are connected to one GPU - is that your 'number 1' GPU - ie the 'first' PCIe /GPU slot on your motherboard?

Edit:

and another thought:

you said above you'd set up Nvidia control : "...so in the Nvidia Control Panel AE is set to only use one."

I haven't done this on my own system (Win 7)  - so it might be worth setting that back to default and seeing if that helps. My feeling is there is some software / setting conflict going on here. You shouldn't be getting lags as you describe on a machine of that spec.

[Chrisatom]

Thanks again, Mike for your reply. If I was going to upgrade anything do you think I'd notice much of a difference going from 32gb to 64gb RAM?

I had the Wacom Cintiq Pro plugged into the middle GPU and the other 2 monitors plugged into the bottom GPU... I used to have a dual setup, hence the additional 2 monitors.

I will try restoring the settings in Nvidia Control Panel but the reason I disabled the other 2 was due to the error message 'Display Acceleration Disabled' appearing if all 3 were enabled. Good ol' After Effects and its bugs.

[Mike_Abbott]

I would definately try just having one monitor plugged into your top GPU - and see if that changes anything.

I run my #2 and #3 GPU's headless. I do have a dual monitor set up - but both are run off GPU #1.

On the RAM front: what formats are you working with? HD? 4K? other?

What sort of work are you going to be doing?

For the vast majority of users 32GB should be fine.

[P.M.B]

Chrisatom  wrote

I will try

If I were you I would wait for a second or third opinion before I pulled GPU's.  If I'm the only one who thinks it matters then maybe I'm wrong.