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Which monitor is best for color grading?

New Here ,
Mar 31, 2013 Mar 31, 2013

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I am new to Editing & color grading,i am working for films,using Adobe CS6 & davinci resolve now i am looking for 2nd monitor(reference or preview purpose) which one is best to choose in budget.

my monitor is dell 27 inch ips monitor,and what to choose second one ,is it a broadcast monitor or one more ips monitor is enough? broadcast monitor is expensive then which is best budget monitor to choose?plz help me

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People's Champ ,
Nov 09, 2013 Nov 09, 2013

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The suggested list price of $40,000 kind of rules it out for anyone that I know personally. Maybe there are some people I have met in my life that could justify it, but nobody I could say that I actually know.

artofzootography.com

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Engaged ,
Jul 21, 2016 Jul 21, 2016

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Steven L. Gotz wrote:


The suggested list price of $40,000 kind of rules it out for anyone that I know personally. Maybe there are some people I have met in my life that could justify it, but nobody I could say that I actually know.

I literally laughed out loud when I read your comment, Steven. You are sooooo right!

I get tired of people telling me that I can't do with what I've got, and that I need to go buy this or that (usually what they are selling, which is always the best)!

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Contributor ,
Jul 22, 2016 Jul 22, 2016

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GrizzlyAK

I totally second that. There are plenty of option from 750. - 1500. But a lot of people fake like they have the $4800. Flanders (which is really for photoshop) and then they tell you that your UltraSharp or NECPA series is not quite there.

Its silly.

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Contributor ,
Nov 09, 2013 Nov 09, 2013

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Honestly with all due respect.

This suggestion is just flat out rediculous. It probably works for networks or hollywood but under that its like saying "well if you are in the market for a house the why not just buy a small country like Iceland."

I have always been suspect of suggestions like this to Freelancers and small production houses. The Flanders or Ezio suggestions are at least reachable. Most people who suggest even those brands dont have one. They just read about it on the web.

I am sure its a great monitor but not realistic for this thread. 40k gets you a Sony F5 or RED Epic and everything you need to do 4k editing including a Flanders or Ezio.

I'm just saying.

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Explorer ,
Nov 10, 2013 Nov 10, 2013

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Flanders are cheapest true 10bit monitors that i could find. http://www.shopfsi.com/category-s/66.htm

Ture 10 Bit LCD Panel 17." - $$2,895.00 , 24`` - 5000$ its not that crazy expansive .... for a pro.... but its already calibrated, and u get, if i remember its right, free calibration for life ... u pay just for shipping! its a no brainer to me.... u also Get Great Production monitor (sdi connections) that u can take with you on a shoot... + scopes... and so on... u can even rent it out...

i am in same pants , i also want 10bit monitors, so ll get 2 dells for work and 1 flander for color check. dells come 1st and as soon as ill save enough ill get a flander - its an investment as i also video operator. So i am sure its hard to justify to spend 3000-4000 $ on true 10bit monitor if editing is just your hobby, but then why would u need it....  but if u r getting paid for your edit and color correction - i think its a no brainier!


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Contributor ,
Nov 11, 2013 Nov 11, 2013

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NEC PA series panels are 10bit and will get you everything you will need to grade footage or Images. it will get you about 85% of Kodac2393 (which i have never heard of an applied use for in day to day business). This is new knowledge to me also but NEC covers 98% of Adobe RGB, and 99% of BT709. That covers everything I need.

There is no way to get rid of the color curb and no matter what 10bit monitor you choose your eyes will have to see it for a while to get use to doing things like compensating for the screen leaning blue or yellow. This is negligible when you know your equipment. You have to look at these images you create over and over again on maybe hundreds of screens before you form your EYE.

I reject the notion that for Corporate or Broadcast level TV commercial work, logo design, Image editing, 3D Graphics that a pro would need better. A Pro does work consistently and a lot of design and color work is starting to go to smaller production house (staff of 9 people small). The freelance economy has increased about 17% in the last 2 years.

At a pro-level level Your Ture , FSI, Ezio, and yes NEC are all PRO monitors. There are more 20k and under jobs than there are 2million dollar jobs. Full length films have been graded on Panasonic 42inch plasmas. I Think its perspective. If you are doing 10k jobs you want it to look good be crisp and well graded You do not need to spend over 3k.

The economy proves it.

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 09, 2014 Jan 09, 2014

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Hi all,

I've got a DeckLink 4K Extreme and Premiere Pro CS6. I am wondering what is the best monitor to plug it into for colour grading (via Speed Grade or Da Vinci Resolve Lite), as are the rest of you, it seems. As 4K monitors are now coming out I wondered about the Dell UltraSharp UP2414Q, connected via HDMI:

http://accessories.euro.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=uk&l=en&s=dhs&cs=ukdhs1&sku=845218

What do you good people reckon? This is bang on my budget of £1000 + VAT. Or is there a better bet?

The colour support says:

Colour Gamut (typical): Adobe RGB 99%, sRGB 100%

1.07 Billion colours (8 Bits +AFRC)

The much larger (and double the price) UP3214Q is here:

http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/dell-up3214q?c=uk&l=en&s=dhs&cs=ukdhs...

The colour support says:

Colour Gamut (typical): Adobe RGB 99%, sRGB 100%

1.074 Billion colours (10 Bits)

Is that difference between 8bit and 10bit going to seriously hamper me? Is there a 10bit 4K monitor in my price range or should I go for a 10bit 2K monitor?

(And yes, I know the DeckLink 4K Extreme is a hefty piece of kit for plugging into a 'relatively' cheap monitor but rather nice circumstances meant I ended up with one, albeit with no suitable monitor.)

Thanks.

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Guru ,
Jan 09, 2014 Jan 09, 2014

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Still waiting on some feedback on that Dell 24 from people I watch but so far it definitely looks to be the best solution at that range right now and what I would suggest. Yes 10bit color does make a difference previewing when your grading or compositing

Eric

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 09, 2014 Jan 09, 2014

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Thanks Eric. There seems to be a few just itching to be released, including the Phiips 288P6 and the Samsung UD970. Any thoughts on these? Are they truly 10bit? Is it bad to use dithering to achieve a bit rate (as hinted at in various articles) - does it affect colour grading accuracy?

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Explorer ,
Jan 09, 2014 Jan 09, 2014

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Wellington Films wrote:

Thanks Eric. There seems to be a few just itching to be released, including the Phiips 288P6 and the Samsung UD970. Any thoughts on these? Are they truly 10bit? Is it bad to use dithering to achieve a bit rate (as hinted at in various articles) - does it affect colour grading accuracy?

Both recently released Dells seem to be great monitors and at a great price. The third soon to be released 28" will have less features, but for those that want 4k at the most competive priece, this will be it.

I plan to get the 24" soon and will make a person review of what I think. It may not be a true  10 bit display (8bit A-FRC), but it proported to be just as capable up until all but the very extreme limits of application.

For those that claim 10 bit isn't necessary because all consumer monitors are 8 bit, I say popicock. I could have used that excuse decades ago with resolution and all we would have around today would be 320 VHS quality movies. That  was the maximum TV could resolve for many, many years. 

How would you feel about watching all your movies like that? Luckily, somebody had enough forward thinking and now we can all enjoy our old movies like new again. I don't know about you, but I enjoy seeing what I've never seen before in movies form the 40s. And come 4k, iit will get even better still.

Using and applyng the highest quality you can afford won't stop your content from becoing obsolete, however, it will delay it as long as possible. I think that's worth the extra investmen, not to mention, it could pay off a second time! I might have understood that resistance to future tech reasoning a decade ago when owning such monitors costs many, many thousands of dollars. But not now

Nowadays, 10 bit monitors aren't unreasonable, nor are the requiemrnts for the systems that support them.

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Contributor ,
Jan 27, 2014 Jan 27, 2014

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I use a mxo2 and a BM Intensity (2yrs). I have been back and forth with a lot of people on line and i've read quite a lot on the topic. Here is what i have noticed over all.

1. The are 2 groups of creative people. The Broadcast/Cinema people and the highend freelancers. TO ME the folks who push +2k USD monitors are broadcast people who in some cases actually did not pay for the monitor or bought the monitor based on their experience in broadcast.

So they are on FSI, Digital and Ezio with highend AJA cards or better.

The highend Freelancers often tout U2410s, DreamColors, Panasonic Plasma and some ezio.

2. From working in the industry i know for sure that there are more sub 20k contracts than plus 20k contracts. This means the majority of what you see in commercials is freelance work especially on the regional or semi national level.

3. There are more 1080p 60hz TV's in homes than 4k/2k tv's and the average price point of TV's sold is 1199.

3. There are less than 4 sub 12k-ish cameras that film to 4:4:4 and about the same for 4:2:2. Infact in most cases the camera is filming 4:2:0 (in freelance world)

4. 10bit 4:2:2 is the HD standard for higher end freelance work and it is also a color space that most editors including Broadcast Guru's work in. HD sdi is a standard but IMHO it is also a habit that seems like the only way to some editors.While displayport can do the SAME and HDMI is said to deliver 10bit 4:2:2.

With that said I do not think that there is a visual difference between my 'new' NEC PA27 and a Flanders especially since Flanders is more for image editing and so is Ezio. I see no reason to am to satisfy both PS and Preimer or Smoke with the same monitor though all of these monitors i have named minus the pany plasmas, dreamcolor and the u2410 can do within a 5-10% quality spread of each other.

Bryers Icecream, Publix Groceries, and yes the original cavemen were not graded on a +2k monitor. Sam Adams wasn't either until 2years ago. Those are big companies that used contest and small production houses to get fresh content.

So i would respectfully disagree with the notion that your monitor absolutely needs to be 4k resolution or that it needs to cost a gazillion dollars. 1080p will be the the standard for broadcast for at least 2-4 more years. OR until a 2k TV is 1199.

ALSO as for freelancers if your client has a budget of 5k and under he is not within a price point that gets him 2k. This is just my oppinion.

I am not an expert but i have spent a great deal of time using some of the things mentioned in this thread. I would think that you would be hard pressed to beat a Kona 3D or the LHi and a NEC PA 24/27/ or even the 30.

Kona LHi - 1500.

Nec PA24 - around 1000. or the PA27 1500.

Black magic also has some nice cards.

True 10bit 4:2:2 externalmonitoring at a high quality level below 2k for the moniror. Monitor comes with a manufactures tuned xRite iDisplay1. Its good and the PA27 it will handle 2k.

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Contributor ,
Jan 27, 2014 Jan 27, 2014

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Thanks Preditor Corbett for all your time in this thread and very helpful explanations. I too have not gotten a broadcast monitor yet, I'm actually using an Asus ProArt calibrated with a xRite iDisplayPro though I'm not convinced its the most accurate monitor. I definitely considered getting the NEC PA 24 or 27 like you have.

I'm on a Mac and up through OS 10.8 it hasn't supported 10 Bit in the OS, only through cards like the Blackmagic Intensity Pro which I have, but had so much instability with it I removed it from my 2012 Mac Pro. I have heard that Mac OS 10.9 does support 10 bit, so I'm curious to see if I upgraded to 10.9 if my Quadro 4000 would drive this or other '10-bit' monitors natively without a dedicated I/O card. Does anybody have advice about getting 10Bit out of the OS on Mac as well as a less than 'broadcast' monitor solution? Thanks much for all and any advice.

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Contributor ,
Jan 27, 2014 Jan 27, 2014

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If i were to suggest a color monitor thats good but not 10 bit then i would have to go with the Dell Ultra Sharp or a Panasonic Plasma.

I actually have the u2410 which is what i used until i could get the NEC which i will use until i need more than 2k which in commercial world will be about 2018-ish.

Yes it is possible but i am unsure if it is with your particular card. Most of the people that have a non-i/o system are using 2010 macs with flashed Nvidia Cards like the GTX580's or better. But if you are going to be coming from the gfx card then you will definately need a monitor that can hold its own internal LUT as often the primaries used in the cards are off/wrong.

if the top of the line Logic or Flanders is a 10(perfect). Then the dell ultra sharps are a 6.5 and the NEC would be a 8.5. BTW you can get a PA24 for $900. with the spectraView calibration kit.

http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=itemlist&cat1=Computers&cat2=Monitors%20%26%20Projectors&cat3=...

The spectraView software is like 199. sold separately.

OH, Close does matter. If you are using a bad lcd monitor that is less than 8bit you really can get close but in the 8bit calabratable world you can get relatively close and pass broadcast QC.

Learn your scope, how to understand scopes and remember to:

1.  color correct with the scopes

2.  grade with your eye & imagination

3.  then legalize the look with the scopes again.

OR YOU COULD SAY:

CORRECT > STYLIZE > JUSTIFY

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Guru ,
Jan 28, 2014 Jan 28, 2014

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The Video card output is the ICC profile and not the LUT. The Colorimeter is what calibrates the profile and the SpectraView is the Colorimeter software that NEC uses with the X-rite oem colorimeters. Geforce cards have zero difference with Quadro cards with regards to caliabration options. The ICC profile is what sets the transmission data out for color space. OSX and Windows both use ICC profiles for this since that is the standard.

Steve, the ICC profile you use with the  spider is dependant on the media. Broadcast or Disc media is going to be Rec 709 and that is the profile you want to set the Spyder to for that. Web media may be many different profiles but either sRGB or Adobe RGB are commonly used.

Eric

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Contributor ,
Jan 28, 2014 Jan 28, 2014

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Thanks Corbett and Eric. I would be trying to use Mac 10.9 which supposedly supports 10 bit output along with my Quadro 4000 card with displayport output which does supposedly output 10 bit to what may be a 10 Bit NEC PA242. I am also using a flashed NVidia GTX770 for CUDA in Premier Pro which is really fast (faster than the Quadro) I already have a X-Rite EODIS3 i1Display Pro and the included software which I have been using for calibrating my existing monitors. It seems like the same hardware device, and the little information out there indicates it will work with the NEC and create the correct LUT in themonitor using the DDC (Display Data Channel) protocol

I have a couple of basic questions, there is a normal and a 'wide gammut' version of the NEC PA242, any advantage to using the 'wide gammut' for video? Also any idea if my existing i1DisplayPro with it's bundled software will work as well as the NEC bundled calibration hardware and software? It's about $300 less without the bundled NEC iDisplayPro.

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Guru ,
Jan 28, 2014 Jan 28, 2014

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I know the X-Rite version works with OSX and should work fine with the NEC Display. The Spectraview lists OSX support but I have no experience with it.

BTW where did you verify the 10bit color support for OSX?

Eric

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Contributor ,
Jan 30, 2014 Jan 30, 2014

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Eric, actually, after further investigation, though there were reports of Mac OS 10.9 supporting 10-bit, that hasn't yet happened. Darn! As for using the NEC and X-Rite plus Spectravision II bundle, it's about $200 more for the bundle, and the NEC software alone is $99. And the included i1Display device can't be used with non NEC monitors. So I'm thinking just get the $99 Spectravision if I get the NEC without the bundle.

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Guru ,
Jan 30, 2014 Jan 30, 2014

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The I1-display Pro can be used with Non NEC monitors. I have clients who have used it with HP monitors and others. Maybe the oem version that NEC uses cant but the retail can for sure.

http://www.xrite.com/i1display-pro

Eric

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Contributor ,
Jan 30, 2014 Jan 30, 2014

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Yes, Eric, the i1display Pro non-NEC oem branded unit should work with NEC and others, that's why I originally got it. I have heard the bundled NEC i1DisplayPro is locked to only NEC brand monitors. I have heard though that it is advised to calibrate the NEC monitors with their proprietary Spectravision II software even while using the non-NEC i1DisplayPro because the Spectravision software will know how to program the NEC internally to offload the calibration from the computer to the monitor, as well as having the monitor more independent from the computer. Is this your experience or do you think the included x-Rite software in the i1DisplayPro will be able to program the NEC monitor without me having to purchase the NEC Spectravision software?

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Guru ,
Jan 30, 2014 Jan 30, 2014

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You would need the Spectraview software most likely to program the firmware. The standard software set the ICC profiles used by the OS.

Eric

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Contributor ,
Jan 30, 2014 Jan 30, 2014

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Yes it can be used with other devices but.....

Its not the full version of the manufacturers i1diplay. I might recommend that you buy the SpectraView software but buy a separate i1D if you want a metter for all around use.  May not be as cheap but you get the full version of the i1D.

BTW, I have not tested a real i1D to the one thats bundled, and since i have decided to stick with the NECs for a while i probably will not worry about it anyway. 

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Contributor ,
Jan 24, 2015 Jan 24, 2015

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@Alexander Eberhard

Ezio Flex Scan

>>> The wide gamut LCD panels reproduce 96% and 95% of the Adobe RGB color space for the SX2761W and SX2461W respectively, allowing them to display most colors of a photograph taken in a digital camera’s Adobe RGB mode. An sRGB mode is also included so that images meant for display in this narrower but widely used color space such as those used on most web pages will be shown as intended. <<<




Nec PA series (NEC PA271)


ResponseTime (typical)7ms
Color Gamut
Adobe RGB Coverage/Size97.1% / 107.2%
NTSC Coverage/Size92.6% / 102.5%
sRGB Coverage/Size100% / 144.7%
Lookup Table14-bit (3D)

NEC PA272

ResponseTime (typical)6ms
Color Gamut
Adobe RGB Coverage/Size99.3% / 108.6%
NTSC Coverage/Size94.8% / 103.7%
sRGB Coverage/Size146.4% / 100%
Lookup Table14-bit (3D)

NEC PA241

ResponseTime (typical)8ms
Color Gamut
Adobe RGB Coverage/Size98.1% / 107%
NTSC Coverage/Size93.2% / 102.2%
sRGB Coverage/Size100% / 144.3%
Lookup Table14-bit (3D)
Displayable Colors1.07 billion out of 4.3 trillion

NEC PA242

ResponseTime (typical)8ms
Color Gamut
Adobe RGB Coverage/Size99.3% / 108.6%
NTSC Coverage/Size94.8% / 103.7%
sRGB Coverage/Size100% / 146.4%
Lookup Table14-bit (3D)

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Engaged ,
Jan 28, 2015 Jan 28, 2015

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True. Of course its a matter of budget. Looking at the Eizo CX or CG series complete turnes the page.

AdobeRGB: 99% ISO Coated V2: 100% sRGB: 100%, Rec709: 100%, EBU: 100%, SMPTE-C: 100%, DCI: 93%


sankoor2012


Set your budget and have a critical look at Eizo an NEC productions in comparison and you'll be fine.

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Guru ,
Jan 10, 2014 Jan 10, 2014

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The Samsung definitely looks good. Whether it's true 10 or 8+ I cant narrow down yet. There is a difference in color range between the 2 but your talking a few percentage points here so probably not enough to matter to most.

Still dont see pricing on the Samsung so that is a wait and see.


Eric

ADK

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Explorer ,
Apr 12, 2013 Apr 12, 2013

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The Dell is really all you need. Those that need/recommend more, simple have bigger budgets. I would buy a Lexus if I could afford one but a Toyota will do transportation just as well.

Also Adobe CS6 comes with its own professional color grading software (Speedgrade, and Color finesse (AE), and the 3-way color corrector (PP)) so you really don't need Resolve unless again, you just want to have it.

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