H.265 encoder released... elsewhere

[Dave Merchant]

Interesting...    http://www.eoshd.com/content/11534/new-h-265-codec-test-prores-4444-quality-1-file-size

Before you ask, no - CC doesn't support the footage.

[excited_Genie16B8]

"10bit 4:4:4 video will be a breeze to record and store with H.265 and in the future consumers will be recording hours of 10bit 4:4:4 to one 64GB SD card as easily as current point and shoot cameras delivery mushy 8bit AVCHD'

I'm looking forward to that.  But I'm curious how we'll encode for BD delivery.  Players can send out up to 12 bit with Deep Color, but as far as I know, there's no way to actually put such a signal on the disk.

[the_wine_snob]

Jim.,

The delivery was a big question for me too.

Hunt

[DrDave42]

I'm curious as to whether there will be some sort of hardware change on the player end, or whether this is a "streaming only" solution. I'm assuming the big vid companies want discs of some kind....
Certainly there is a precedent along the lines of AVCHD, my first Blu-Ray player could not play those files from the disc, but there was no retrofit possible for the installed base of players.

[Steven L. Gotz]

Well, let's see. I can probably tell you approximately when the change will occur with some accuracy.

You see, I don't own a standalone BD player just yet. (My PC has one.)

I meant to buy one, but I don't really have a need so I keep putting it off. I never rent DVDs so I haven't even set up the SD DVD player in the new house yet. I figured I would buy one about two weeks before the new models are announced. Then I will buy a 4K TV just before they drop 50% in price as the new 5K models are announced.

So watch these forums. When I buy a new BD player, the change will come right after. It reminds me of when I bought my 28.8 modem and the industry settled on a different format for 28.8 the next week. So minwe was OK, but not great.

I used to buy state-of-the-art. I have stopped doing that. My real intention is to buy the latest and greatest again, one of these days, but that is unlikely in the near future.

[Peru Bob]

Too bad that didn't work when you "bought" Creative Cloud.

[Steven L. Gotz]

Remember that I bought Creative Cloud when there was still a choice. I choose the one I wanted and renting was cheaper than buying.

They changed the system after I bought mine.

Everything always changes shortly after I buy something. Not always for the worse, not always for the better, either. But things change. They can stay the same for years and years but the moment I make a decision, things change.

[excited_Genie16B8]

So here's hoping we have a flood of affordable H.265 cameras out soon, since you just bought your first H.264 camera.

[Steven L. Gotz]

Hmmm. It is certainly a possibility. But I think the issue was that I bought the camera because of the superior video just before the Canon 5D Mark III came out. I probably would have gone that route if I had not had a vacation coming up at time. I now believe that the 5D would have been a better choice for me, although three times the money. If I had known about the ability to tether to Lightroom on the Canon, not being available on the Panasonic, it would have possibly made a difference in my decision making.

No, I think you have to wait until I get 4K TV before they change the rules and make the input H.265 only, making my TV obsolete a few weeks after the purchase.

[excited_Genie16B8]

Well...put that on your Christmas list and let's get on with it.  I want my 10 bit 4:2:2 to fit on a 64GB SD card.

[Steven L. Gotz]

Sorry Jim, but I can't force it. I have to wait until just the right time so I can be wrong by just the right amount.

[the_wine_snob]

Steven,

You are starting to sound like Hunt there. If one wants the next "big thing," they only have to wait until I buy the "state-of-the-art" whatever (at that moment in time), then wait until it's too late to return it for full credit, and the very next morning, the NEW "big thing" will be released. It has been that way for me, as long as I can remember.

Years ago, my buddy Schwartz, and I, researched an HP printer extensively. We decided that the HP LaserJet II was perfect for both of us, so bought two of them. Within the week, HP released the LaserJet III, which upped the resolution from 300dpi to 600dpi, and the price dropped by $300! Schwartz even had some contacts at HP, and I was shooting ads for several divisions (but not the Printer division), and the LaserJet III had not even been rumored!!!! Bogus.

Now, that is but one example, out of many 100's, on how my life goes. You want the latest, greatest, wait till Hunt buys it, then get your credit card out, 'cause it will be instantly obsolete.

Enjoy DL,

Hunt

[Steven L. Gotz]

Sounds like we have similar skills in that case.

That's what happens when old guys try to keep current, I guess.

By the way, DW, not DL.  I am in love with EPCOT, Hollywood Studios and the Animal Kingdom, and while the Magic Kingdom is, well, magical, we can get that down the road a piece at Disneyland, so we don't need to travel cross country to get there.

The whole of Disney World is extra magical at Christmas time. It would be even better if there were special days or times where nobody under 18 was allowed in.

[the_wine_snob]

Oh, DW! I missed that, and thought that you were just headed down to Anaheim for the getaway.

While I have never been to DL, we do enjoy Epcot at DW, but have not been in some time now.

Going back, my wife had a Wharton reunion in Orlando, and for her group, Universal Studios closed the park at about 5:30PM, and we had a special Terminator 4D presentation (that was eye-popping), plus the entire park to ourselves, after a very nice meal. That was kicks, and especially as I really do not like crowds.

Travel safely and enjoy greatly.

Hunt

[Amos Keppler]

Hi, I'm new here, and I know this has been debated before, but I'm hereby asking Adobe to include the H.264 and H265 formats. There is quite simply no reason why they shouldn't support them and many reasons why they should. I can't believe that this is still an issue.

[shooternz]

There is quite simply no reason why they shouldn't support them and many reasons why they should

It wont be as simple as you believe.

Maybe they have to buy and negotiate a deal with the rights owners before they can "use" it

Then of course it requires time and effort to build it into Adobe applications.

Why is it an "issue" with you  anyway?

[Amos Keppler]

It is most likely very simple, like it is with virtually all codex.

Neglectible of course.

I basically agree with the others voicing criticism of this. It is a popular and useful format and stuff. It isn't essential, but you could say that about many formats that ARE supported. I quite simply want it to be available if I decide that I do need to use it. It isn't and shouldn't be a mystery.

[shooternz]

It is most likely very simple, like it is with virtually all codex.

Thats kind of naive. 

Heres an example.  Pro Res encoding is not generally available on Windows systems.  Ever wondered why?.

On the other hand ..I am also certain H.265 will arrive in Adobe applications when they sort it all out.

Meantime..there are H265 Encoders available for you to buy and use as soon as you need it.

http://www.cinemartin.com/cinec/

[excited_Genie16B8]

It is most likely very simple, like it is with virtually all codex.

I think you have no idea what Adobe goes through to make sure any given codec works correctly across the suite of programs - for both platforms.  I'd bet a good chunk of change it's anything but 'simple'.

It is a popular and useful format and stuff.

Umm...where exactly do you see H.265 being used in the real world?

[Steven L. Gotz]

And until it is actually being used somewhere, how the heck will Adobe ever test it?

You have to be able to shoot it or play it before Adobe has a way to test it. Unless they happen to be working on the committee and plan on creating a software player for it.

[the_wine_snob]

Steven,

You have hit on one of the potential problems with new, or different CODEC's.

Adobe needs to get the CODEC, test it, then work to incorporate it, across the portfolio of programs.

Let's say that Sony is working on a new CODEC. When it comes out, people notice that Sony's Vegas offers support, but PrPro does not - yet. They scream, "how can Sony Vegas handle ____, when PrPro cannot?" Well, Sony was working on the CODEC in two departments, the camera and the editing software, and each got the preliminary research. Adobe has to wait for the release to even see that CODEC.

Then, there are companies, that tweak a CODEC, and that causes issues. MJPEG is a good example. It has been around for a long time, and seemed about to go the way of CinePak by Radius. Then, several camera mfgrs. decided that MJPEG would work well, usually for their stills cameras, that also shoot motion. At one time, several of the generic MJPEG CODEC's, such as Morgan and MainConcept, would work fine. However, those same camera mfgrs. began tweaking MJPEG, for improved performance. In some cases, those tweaks took the MJPEG CODEC beyond what the generic ones could handle. Fortunately, those tweaked MJPEG CODEC's are *usually* provided by the mfgr., though many "hide" those tweaked CODEC's, inside their supplied editing software. [I would love to see them ALL include their versions as a single, separate install, on the camera's utility disc, but do not see that happening.]

I am sure that as soon as the H.265 CODEC has been finalized, we will see it used by equipment mfgrs., and then will see it appearing in editing and encoding programs. I would suspect that Adobe is busy with the preliminary work right now, and when the equipment mfgrs. settle in, and start producing devices, that use it, the R&D will gain momentum, to the point that it WILL become part of Premiere Pro, After Effects and maybe even Photoshop. One step at a time.

Sounds easy, but it is almost anything BUT.

Hunt

[excited_Genie16B8]

The first round of H.265 specs have already been finalized.  It's just not widely implemented yet.

[Steven L. Gotz]

It's just not widely implemented yet.

If only one company is announcing it, I would say that "not widely implemented" is an understatement.

I remember well what happened when HDV cameras were released by Sony because I bought one as a pre-order from B&H. Sony was the second to do so, and their camera was better than the first because it had 3 chips instead of one. It took Adobe a few months to release software that allowed me to edit the video, and even then, they included a plug-in from Cineform to do the job.

But the key is that Adobe did it. I was a beta tester back then, so I know that the first tests of that release were not capable of editing HDV. They worked very hard getting the HDV release ready, but they eventually succeeded.

My guess? Something similar will happen. They will work on it as best they can until a few early adopters are available to test it. When there is a way to test ingesting it, they can start working on it in earnest. When there is a reason to export it, then that will happen too.

A reason to export? How about a DVD player that can play it, or YouTube could accept it, or even the next YouTube challenger. Maybe Adobe will decide to challenge YouTube. You never know. Adobe could partner with Microsoft and come up with something pretty cool. It would add to the "Cloud" capabilities of the CC subscription.

A new enhanced "Behance" perhaps?

[the_wine_snob]

Steven,

Only a guess, but I would think that YouTube, and others, like Vimeo, might already be working on it, along with 4K. Just a matter of time.

As for disc-based delivery, I worry that that will not happen. Hey, even Adobe says that "streaming media is the future, and disc-based delivery is so very 2000." Wonder how the folk, who thought Quickster was the wave of the future, are doing now?

Hunt

[Steven L. Gotz]

I am a big fan of streaming media, but I don't believe that even modern cable systems are really prepared to stream a decent 4K signal using H.264. Although, if H.265 is as good as they say, then why do we need disks? My TV is hooked up to the Internet. Isn't yours?

Actually, I believe that disks are still necessary. But I don't think that they will be, or rather, that they should be, when H.265 is readily available.

We can still sell BD for a few years yet. After that, who knows what might happen.