Why are Legacy Title going out. I use it in EVERY project I make.
So easy to use for baggrunds and text.
Realy not happy for that.
If I understand the message as comes with update to ver. 15.2 the options goes out.
A new page the Adobe staff just put up on this ... basically, the code is ANCIENT and is built using things they don't use any more. When they built a new graphics setup using new code they started from scratch as they had to anyway. Ergo, the EGP and mogrts.
Still needs a few additions like a shape library, but ... it's what is going to be there from now on.
THere are still many title effects like bevels and 3d that are not in the new title. Typical of Adobe they usually take away the good things and never replace them. I will stay at 2019-2021 as these upgrade are nothing to and add nothing important to the program. 2018 is the same as the latest and even more stable. Look at how long the nea title has taken to get clost to the legacy title. GIve us better upgrade not new named
I agree. I say get rid of the Essential Graphic Panel and start over rover. Adobe should not get rid of the Legacy Titling Tool unless they have a replacement. The Essential Graphics work but it is not a replacement. We need inner and outer strokes. The ability to set transparency for fill and inner and outer strokes. We also need drawing tools, text on paths, beveled edges etc.
Adobe used to care about it's customers now they care more or about their programmers. The Adobe programmers need to implement the new SFX Titling system because the Esential Graphics stinks!
Most people have no freaking clue how "Adobe" makes decisions. And your comment that they only care about their programmers is as off, as that they don't care about their customers. Because few understand how "they" work.
I've been to NAB/Vegas since 2014, MAX since I think 2016. I've worked with, had both formal meetings & off-hours chats with all the program heads and many of the programmers from PrPro, Ae, Ca, Ch, Audition, a couple others.
And ... I've been formally interviewed by M&E folk in a fancy room all set with their metrics whiteboards all around a couple times, and also online. I gotta tell you, working with M&E is an interesting experience.
And there is a huge chasm between the programmers and development teams on one side, and the Marketing & Experience folk on the other. Programs essentially do what M&E decides they should. Program heads only have some discression within the guidelines laid out by M&E.
And how does M&E make their decisions?
Metrics. Live and online interviews like the one I mentioned. Data from the usage figures of the apps. They do get a fair amount of information on what parts of these apps users work in. Nothing of what the users are doing, but of which tools/workspaces, apparently, some.
One of my in-person interviews was on how people get started in graphics/mogrts. With another guy, who'd been a mogrt upper dude for ABC on the then-recent Grammy's show. We have decidedly different workflows and histories.
But the questions being asked were from the viewpoint of someone who actually has no personal knowledge or experience working in ANY creative endeavor. So I spent much of the time informing the woman why she asked the wrong question, and why a different phrasing would get far better information. At least, she listened, asked a ton of questions, and was fascinated by my comments.
Which was nice ... but the whole thing didn't give me a lot of confidence that the M&E types actually know and understand what we users do. And beause they don't, they take their metrics and make decisions we users find most often to be bizarre.
Not because they don't care, they actually do ... in their own way. But "they" have no clue that their way of looking at what we do is so skewed.
The programmers are far closer to us users. And not at all monolithic internally. They can have as wide a notion as to how something should work in the team as we users do.
But ... in the end ... it's M&E that rules the roost. And the program teams do the work they're told to do. They're employees, not bosses.
and I gotta say that Adobe seems much more concerned about their userbase than apple. I was one of the top posters on the fcp7 forum and Apple never had any official presence there. Once a year I would get invited to a focus group about the support forums and that was about it. They'd buy us drinks or a meal and throw us some apple branded swag, but that was it. And Apple's marketing and behavior is all about the new user and to hell with the established userbase. Happy to detail the valuable software and features Apple has abandoned in the last 20 years... so Adobe may not be perfect, but we live in a capitalist society and profit is king...
@Andy 1968 wrote:
Adobe used to care about it's customers now they care more or about their programmers.
C'mon man! That's absolutely untrue. Moving this reply and entire post to off topic discussion in the Video Lounge.
Dear Kevin and Neil
Please learn to accept reality. Look at how many people have listed they want more drawing tools, inner and outer strokes with adjustable transparency, beveled edges, titles on paths etc. Look at how many people have asked for a replacement for Encore including myself. I want to create 4K UHD Blu-ray discs. People bought into the Adobe CS and CC thinking Encore would get better not that Encore would be discontinued.
No one is saying the Essential Graphics don't work. They are saying where are all features I used to have with the Legacy Titler? Adobe's response is be happy with what are programmers give you. That is the reality of what is happening. Learn to accept it.
The Legacy Titler uses old obsolete code yet the new code of the Essential Graphic does not allow for all the bells and whistles of the Legacy Titler. Is that a valid paradox or pure BS?
I say scrap the Essential Graphics Panel if the programmers cannot make it compete with the Legacy Titler. The reality is many other people feel the same way and their complaints are valid.
I'm fully grounded in reality, thank you.
You completely ignore what I say, which does make a discussion a wee bit difficult at times. So you might actually consider, like, to read the comments others make.
I've posted MANY times on the need for a shape library. Get off that cart, bucko, it went down the road a long time ago. And yea, I'm frustrated it wasn't in the first iteration of the EGP, as I always have said it should be.
As to multiple strokes, the team has already said in several places they are working on that as especially the Japanese users really need that. So though they never tell us a timetable, at some point, we'll at least get that.
The old code IS old code, period. Yes, it had a couple things that they haven't put in the new EGP, but what the heck does that have to do with whether the CODE was old and antiquated? It's just a matter of not having create the new tools ... it's got nothing what the freak ever to do with the age of the code.
And as to Encore ... a completely different subject but what the hay ... the percentage of users that would use it is tiny, compared to their user base. You and I are in that group, and we would dearly love to have it. I've been in a room of several hundred pro users, where a speaker asked how many needed/wanted DVD/BluRay authoring program to replace Encore.
I was one of the maybe five people out of 400 that raised a hand. The speaker was surprised how many of us raised a hand. They noted they had asked that question in places where no one raised a hand. It's frustrating, but most people do NOT do optical disks anymore.
In fact, my spendy Puget Systems computer, 24-core Ryzen, 128GB of RAM, 2 internal Nvme, a total of 10 "internal" drives past the Nvme's ... has no optical disk drive. Why? Very few of their clients are willing to pay for an optical drive. They haven't "assumed" an optical drive in a build for four years or more. The vast majority of their computers don't have one.
And those computers are built for pros working in vidio post applications mostly.
Face reality, Andy ... very few of us dinosaurs actually would use that app! (And yes, I still want it.)
I think part of the issue here is that programmers and users want a swiss-army knife Premiere, that does everything in one package... When I started using Premiere intensively, the legacy title tool was almost already "legacy." and I hated it from the get-go. For simple text titles, I use the text tool. If I've got something complicated I use Photoshop or AfterEffects which both have a much more sophisticated toolset for dealing with text.
I am NOT an AfterEffects hot shot; not even close. But the text altering options in Ae are so past what's in PrPro, I've always hoped some of those would migrate into PrPro. Sigh.
And though I had a 35 year career in stills, including a good 10 years of digital before going hard-core video ... my Photoshop skills are so behind the times it's pathetic.
I have always argued for 1) an actual shape library in the EGP like unto that in the old Titler ... can't understand why that wasn't the first thing built! ... and 2) more Ae text effects in PrPro.
And will keep arguing for them every time I see an engineer ... and they know it too. 😉
I'm not an AE or Photoshop ace, but when I need to do something in either, I figure it out... or ask for help.
And I'm always nervous about making something like Premiere more complex as it's hard to predict if it will make the program buggier... bwdik
I just want a few of the text and graphic effects of Ae over in Premiere. The write-on is so much better, and also write on a path would be awesome. Text gradient/color options too. Oh, and general text animation ...
Which shapes would you like to see?
I would like to see all the drawing tools of the Legacy Titler. Adobe could add more like an octogan or hexagon. You could swap out a square with a circle really easy with the Legacy Titler. My YouTube channel logo makes use of the beveled edges. I also still apply titles to paths. There are a lot of things the Legacy Titler can do that I still use. None of the old time Premere Pro users would be complaining if the Essentail Graphics did everytthing the Old Legacy Titler could do. To discontinue the Old Legacy Titler and Encore without a proper replacement seems rude and selfish when you consider how many people have voiced valid concerns for both.
I don't mind getting rid of Encore if it used old code but give me a replacement. I had it when I used the Adobe CS and when I joined the CC. Encore is was what made Premiere Pro better than Avid or FCPX in my opinion.
Sorry was asking Neil.
Bars, arrows, triangles, all the shapes of the old titler. Yes, you can create shapes with a lot of fiddly work using multiple shapes and masking them with each other in the EGP. But ... how do you save one for instant grab & reuse?
Or you can go to say Ilustrator, and spend the fiddly time there to create shapes. And save them into Libraries ... I agree with Andy and others, the Titler gave you far quicker shapes that could be made & saved easily.
And Andy, how many is always a relative thing. Always. "a lot" when it's only a tiny percentage of the whole is not ... a lot. Even if it's a bunch of people, in total ... it's a small group.
You and I and the others wanting an Encore replacement are actually a very, very small group compared to the main userbase of Premiere Pro. That is reality.
Not that I like it, but ... it is the reality. For instance, I asked my peers on the MixingLight slack if any are still doing anything with opticial media. Not a single one was. A decent sized pro sample that ... of peole with major workflows and deliverables. Not one has used an optical disk for anything in years. Most of them don't even have a computer that has a burner drive in it.
Unless it's an old thing off in the corner. Sigh.
I am voicing my opinion and other can voice their's as well.
No one is saying 90% of Preemiere Pro users use the Legacy Titler or Encore. I am saying Adobe does not have a proper replacement for either. As I stated Adobe's response is be happy with what the programmers give you. That is the reality. Your chart does not negate that.
Keep in mind Kevin over the years some people who used Encore and the Legacy Titler have jumped ship to Resolve and FCPX. I know most people did not like the rent by month payment method of the CC. I would prefer to buy the old CS myelf.
If it is not possible to bring all the features of the Legacy Titler into the Essential Graphics than ditch the Essential Graphic and start over. Once agian no one is saying the Essential Graphic Panel does not work. What they are saying is it not as robust as what they used to have. Their concers are valid even if they are a small minority. My guess is they are older users (10 years or more) and Adobe should be respectful of that.