Lounge Production Presents: Joint Efforts Project

Guest
Oct 03, 2013 Oct 03, 2013

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Since I don't feel it would be right to take over the thread started by Steven, I start a new one. This thread is going to be dedicated to producing a movie as a result of those voluneers' joint efforts, who are members of Adobe Community.

The main objective for this project is to collaboratively create final product from scratch: from defining the project scope to finally publish a movie somewhere, be it a dedicated website or just YouTube or Vimeo, as we'll define later.

This main objective is not the only project's goal. It is assumed, participants will be able to work on a particular tasks so as to improve their own skills in a desired field via sharing creativity, knowledge and skills.

I also hope we'll gain the Forum moderators' support so as to be able to appropriately update this original post so that others, who might arrive here later, will be able to understand at which stage the project is that time.

Now let's try to define the project scope.

By 15 October we reached our first milestone and defined

PRODUCT SCOPE and PROJECT CONSTRAINTS & QUALITY CRITERIA

Product Scope

Item

Specification

Priority

Movie, The

Genre: TV commercial

Duration: 60 seconds

Quality: Broadcast Safe Luminance & Chrominance

Format: 1080p, 24 fps, H.264, 32/40 Mbps

Compulsory Elements:

- 3D graphics and VFX (SciFi) incorporated into live shots

- Specific consistent look (colour design)

Highest

Dedicated website

Genre: Promotional website

Scope: 2 pages

Compulsory Elements:

- Web animation

- Video streaming

High

Official trailer

Genre: TV commercial

Duration: 30 seconds

Quality: Broadcast Safe Luminance & Chrominance

Format: 1080p, 24 fps, H.264, 32/40 Mbps

Medium

Behind the scene movie

Genre: Documentary

Duration: 2 minutes

Quality: Broadcast Safe Luminance & Chrominance

Format: 1080p, 24 fps, H.264, 32/40 Mbps

Compulsory Elements:

- Short interviews with the project participants

- VFX breakdown

Medium

Talk show appearance

Genre: TV commercial

Duration: 30 seconds

Quality: Broadcast Safe Luminance & Chrominance

Format: 1080p, 24 fps, H.264, 32/40 Mbps

Low

Poster

Genre: 16 x 9 Billboard

Quantity: 1 sample

Format: 1920 x 1080 pix, PNG

Genre: 4 x 3 Affiche

Quantity: 1 sample

Format: 1080 x 810 pix, PNG

High

Print ads

Genre: Glossy magazine ad, Front cover

Quantity: 1 sample

Format: Full page, Page-proof PDF

Genre: Newspaper ad, Multi-column print

Quantity: 1 sample

Format: ¼ Page, Page-proof PDF             

Medium

Article

Genre: Review

Quantity: 1 sample

Format: Page-proof PDF, ~500 words

Medium

Brief Report on Collaborative Tools

Genre: Review

Quantity: 1 article

Format: Page-proof PDF

Highest

Project Constraints & Quality Criteria

- 24 December 2013 is a strict deadline;

- All media used in final product, from sound to 3D model textures, must be created by the project participants. Utilising stock media in final product is not allowed;

- Missing media or incomplete elements must be replaced with placeholders, white noise or subtitles, which explain what is missing (e.g. 'nice music is playing on the background' or 'nice colour grading applied here' etc.);

- The project is accepted as successful in terms of quality control, if no less than 90% of all planned work is complete. The overall progress is calculated as the following ratio:

(SUM OF COMPLETE ELEMENTS MULTIPLIED BY THEIR WEIGHTS) / (SUM OF ALL PLANNED ELEMENTS MULTIPLIED BY THEIR WEIGHTS)

- The project is accepted as successful in terms of attractiveness to external audience, if we reach 1 000 hits within three months after final product release, where

100 hits = 100 website landing page visits = 10 visits of 2nd page = 10 movie views = 1 movie download.

The following hits distribution is expected:

600 hits within 1st month after release;

250 hits within 2nd month after release;

150 hits within 3rd month after release.

Discussion on the next project phase, planning tasks list and obtaining required resources, starts at comment #84.

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Guest
Oct 10, 2013 Oct 10, 2013

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Rod, here is the ZOHO login webpage. If you remember the password you set for ZOHO, it should work. If it does not, let me know - I'll delete and re-include you in the project user list, which should give you a brand new link to join the ZOHO again. But I will do it tomorrow, 'cos it's either too late night or too early morning here and I'm going to bed.

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Guide ,
Oct 10, 2013 Oct 10, 2013

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okay.. that worked.. thanks a ton...

I got mssg on log in that its written for IE 9 ..and I had IE 8 so I upgraded to IE 10...and its working ...now I can see the right side of page for the items needing to be collaborated on ( schedules, calandars, tasks etc... )... which is very cool.... nice program...

I like it .. and it is probably enough for us to work witih this as a group IMO.  Thanks for pointing me to the program and I'm glad I finally got my computer up to speed to be in the 21st century...

I have a few housekeeping things to do now.. with new mouse... like I hate to think what my c drive looks like with fragmenting..and most everything I loaded in past 2 days is shoving stuff down my throat ( auto updates and even flash player stuffed google chrome and toolbar down my throat... )... but I'll do the housekeeping tonight.. and defrag while sleeping etc...

all in all I"m happy with the win7 stuff so far , for this type use .... mouse is now a junk computer for email, internet and basic computing.  The pig will never be on internet ... as a working mans computer..

if it works, I dont have to fix it or upgrade it etc... and thats the pig...and I dont want people shoving stuff down my throat and taking over when updates happen and so on...thats just ME.. how I feel about working platforms as opposed to 'social networking' platforms...

anyway, this zoho thing is cool and lets stick with it and see if we can get others to join us there... then work out the basics for the 60 sec spot.. yap about the other PR stuff ( print ads etc ) and move on...

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Guide ,
Oct 10, 2013 Oct 10, 2013

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maybe it was acrobat that stuffed chrome in.. I forget.. they are bundling so many things together for market share its hard to keep track who is shoving what down my throat...

dont matter.. I couldnt care less with new mouse.. as its just a social thing ... not a serious computer for work...

I hope the clowns who think up their creative cloud market ( think, CEO , here ).. get real about this and security, speed of use,  etc...

I hope the CEO goes to jail and does not pass GO...to collect his $200.... but by the same token, I hope he invites me to his mcMansion for a chat about what good books are being published these days.. I wonder if he like umberto eco ??

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Guest
Oct 11, 2013 Oct 11, 2013

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OK then. This weekend I'll try to check how to set general tasks breakdown, tasks and subtasks dependencies etc. in ZOHO (so far I haven't worked with ZOHO as well). Hope, Steven will also be available soon and can test ZOHO tools so that we can 'officially choose' our project management tool (we can always revisit this decision later if need be and change to another one).

Another one task we need to finish before we can 'officially close' this project phase is:
- to ensure that all items, which constitutes our final product, are included in the list;
- every item's specification is clear and sufficient (e.g. I don't see in which resolution we are going to deliver our movie. I wonder if it was just Fuzzy's blunder or done intentionally? );
- to which extent we can tolerate some deviations from the specifications (e.g. should we stop working on the project on 24 December irrespective of whether we managed to produce and approve all final product items from the list by that time or keep working until everything is approved and released irrespective of time shift, or just approve and release our Movie, The and terminate all other tasks? Or what should we do if we can't overcome the proposed challenge and can't recreate a music theme on our own so as to use it in final product?).

Then we will be able to move to a similarly boring phase: define all tasks we need to accomplish so as to deliver all final product items, estimate how long those tasks might take and hence which resources and when we need to allocate so as to complete them in time.

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Guide ,
Oct 11, 2013 Oct 11, 2013

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zoho managed to capture the info I attempted to input to start my own account the other day..and sent me email tonight leading me through process of signing into zoho as my own account thing... so I can more or less play with that end of things too..chk it out..I did NOT start a project and will use yours for this adobe joint project.

I was kinda thinking we could move the date forward for completion to maybe the 2nd week of January. The holidays ( thanksgiving, xmas and new years ) might provide events and occassions for some cool shots , relative to whatever is decided re: subject of project...the product or whatever we end up selling.  Conversely, the holidays sometimes gets busy for people traveling and so on... so we might lose some time to work on the project during those holidays.

I hope Joe can sign up for the zoho thing too ...

Steve is probably unpacking boxes and trying to get services to new home ( internet etc ).

This weekend, as you said, will be a good time to narrow things down some more, hopefully with Joe and Steve's input as well as any others who can join project...

We'll need to give the final edit to someone and I kinda think Joe might be best at that due to his tons of experience .. but he might wanna do other stuff, like write the script, storyboard the thing, whatever...??

anyway, thanks again fuzzy for pulling this together with the zoho thing...etc.

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Guide ,
Oct 11, 2013 Oct 11, 2013

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I think re: the resolution for delivery, it was sorta up in air what to shoot at ( dimensions, fps, etc ) for edit.. and 'delivery' from there would be to the internet right ?? So that would depend on the bandwidth available ... typically full HD sucks on the internet IMO... so I would vote for something way smaller..  is that what you mean by delivery ?

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Guest
Oct 11, 2013 Oct 11, 2013

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Full HD is fine on YouTube or Vimeo. At least as a preview. Original file with high bitrate can be made available for download from 'Movie, The' dedicated website etc. etc. Choices.

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Guide ,
Oct 11, 2013 Oct 11, 2013

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I hope Joe chimes in on this issue too... as there's issues about DL time for editor to get original clips.. maybe if we do multiple takes of some shot.. we should have a place where editor can look at mp4 samples of them, pick the one he wants.. and thats the one that gets uploaded for editor to DL...otherwise we might have a ton of junk he has to wade through, which would be kinda dumb...better to pick and choose what he wants..dont you think ??

we're gonna have to be thick skinned about letting others choose what shots are used and not used...

if I shoot a scary snake and it ends up on editing floor.. I have to cry about it privately...

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Guest
Oct 11, 2013 Oct 11, 2013

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That's the matter of how and with which tools we'll organise media files sharing. We have already successfully tested large files sharing via Google Drive within Joe's CS6 / AVCHD / Spanned Clip Bug / What Cameras And Media Types Are Affected? thread.

When we know which quality we're going to deliver, we can define with which quality we should shoot or render out of 3D application etc. and subsequently calculate how much storage space we need for source footages and intermediates. E.g. 6 GB storage can accommodate:

- around 50 min Full HD AVCHD footage taken with 17 Mbps;

- around 30 min Full HD AVCHD footage taken with 28 Mbps;

- around 5 min 4K R3D footage;

- around 50 sec 2K CinemaDNG footage;

etc.

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People's Champ ,
Oct 11, 2013 Oct 11, 2013

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I am hopefully getting my big PC hooked up to the Internet today. This laptop I am usingis tiny and was purchased to look at Photographs while on vacation and is not exactly the machine I want to use to check anything out.

I am getting used to the small keyboard, finally.

This may freak Rod out, but I have set up my cell phone as a wireless hot spot so I can access the internet on my laptop using the cell phone as a wireless connection. It works pretty good for email and forums. Actually, the speed isn't bad. I am getting 12Mb/s downloads and 1.3Mb/s uploads.  Not as good as my cable, but it doesn't suck.

Anyway, even if we can't store all of the footage in one place, we should be able to move some to secondary locations.

I remember when Curt Wrigley was paying through the nose for bandwidth and stoage for his tutorials. Now we get it free. Amazing.

artofzootography.com

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Guide ,
Oct 11, 2013 Oct 11, 2013

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hows the move going so far Steve? 

let us know when you're up and runnin and join the zoho thing ...

about zoho.. my suspician is that since it does that chat thing it is a peer to peer deal...when we can share large files through that..as part of that peer to peer thing ...

that means the computer with the files on it has to stay ON when others are trying to DL

used to do that sort of thing years ago with instant messenger but not using huge Gbyte files....

in my case, lets say I shoot mov with avid codec, 1080p 30fps.. I'm gonna have to put in pig and sync sound ( if there is any sound )..so I can export ( sorta 'convert' ) to whatever we decide to use..or whatever...I can probably do whatever everyone decides on..

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People's Champ ,
Oct 12, 2013 Oct 12, 2013

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The move is going slower than expected.

We are in the house but the cable guy didn't show up. Rescheduled for Sunday afternoon. I could do it myself but I really don't feel like crawling around in that part of the attic. Plus, I want every cable checked with the proper power meter.

We slept in the house Monday, and had house guests on Tuesday and Wednesday. Old friends. They had to help me reassemble the bed they were going to sleep in. I have remodeled my wife's walk-in closet and just have to put the rods back up. I made a lot more space for her. (My clothes are in the other room.)

I am in the office at work. It is 4:30AM local time and I had to escort a customer into our area to work on his equipment.

artofzootography.com

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Guide ,
Oct 12, 2013 Oct 12, 2013

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pretty tricky... get help unpacking and moving by inviting friends over.....

" Oh, you wanna eat with us ??  Just go out into the garage , find the box marked " dishes" and bring it here "

" Oh, you wanna sleep ? Well, go to the garage and carry the bed you see there into that room over there...and set it up "

hehe...

glad things are working out well....

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Guide ,
Oct 12, 2013 Oct 12, 2013

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fuzzy,

I think whats happenin is the " feed " is ( and email notifications associated with that ) for those with mobile devices.. for udates over smartphones etc...and then when you get to a real browser and platform ( puter ) you click on the particular " project" ... to get into the nitty gritty of that one project ( apprarently there can be many under your management as admin ).

So the feed becomes redundant and is a heads up for people on the move... and then when you go into the specific 'project' link.. you can now work specifically on updating how tasks are going, and do more interactiing .. share files, docs whatever...

I dont much like the 'feed' thing.. and we saw how the notifications went out via email about that.. and I suspect that is for the smartphones etc. .. like just little heads up things and can be unrelated to any specific tasks a person is into doing... just an overall mass of info going out from the project participants.. and the ' header' ( the milestone ) defines what you pay attention to...

????

that makes sense to me as long as I know whats going on..

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Guest
Oct 13, 2013 Oct 13, 2013

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Personally I HATE all that 'social' junk, which is completely useless and just clutters the interface. I HATE the paradigm in which milestones are groups of tasks rather than important events within a task. I'm not fond of glitches, which take place in ZOHO Gantt View. I feel disappointed about lack of ability to divide a general task into subtasks in free ZOHO account as well as lack of time tracking... Can I live with that? Probably yes, for the time being. We can keep evaluating ZOHO and simultaneously explore other project management tools like TeamBox and qdPM mentioned above. However, choosing project management tool shouldn't prevent us from accomplishing actual tasks, which are more important and on which the project really depends. That doesn't mean they are less boring though...

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Guide ,
Oct 13, 2013 Oct 13, 2013

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yeah, I noticed the 'upgrade' promises the sub task stuff.. and a few other assets. I feel we can use the zoho thing too...

at least it allows for a specific area ( forum ) to yap about the project details etc... give ideas re: opinons on elements of project etc.

the chat thing might come in handy too... at least for me as I type pretty fast

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Guide ,
Oct 13, 2013 Oct 13, 2013

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it looks like we got two major problems at this point.. aside from picking the right project management tool...

first is to get more people into the project....as we cant define the project parameters ( elements ) until we have members to do the work and collaboration.  I mean, whittle down the overall project wish list into something everyone can deliver and be assigned to.

second is to have a place to decide what those parameters are ( what to shoot (subject and content)) , what to deliver to editor, who does what re: print ads, etc.

I think there are about 8 people who can deliver if they wanted to , but mostly they need to monetize their time, unlike me... I actually bought a cell phone recently where I throw money out the window every time someone I dont know sends me a mssg or calls me.. so obviously money means nothin to me.

the poor vikings are not doing well.. sheesh... maybe what they need is a new stadium to get them to work out and learn how to play ?

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Guest
Oct 13, 2013 Oct 13, 2013

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first is to get more people into the project....as we cant define the project parameters ( elements ) until we have members to do the work and collaboration.

Although it would be nice to get a lot of contributors, we can't make anyone participate - everyone is free to choose whether to become a part of All Awards Winning Movie and if so, to which extent and at which stage to join. And I'd rather we never defined how many contributors should take part in the project so that it can be accepted as successful. Currently we have two people in our project management team, which is neither good nor bad. Steven will probably join us when he is settled in new house. Project contributors shouldn't necessarily be a part of project management team, therefore I don't see anything insurmountable, which would prevent us from making decisions.

second is to have a place to decide what those parameters are ( what to shoot (subject and content)) , what to deliver to editor, who does what re: print ads, etc.

Irrespective of which project management tools we will be using throughout the project term, this thread is the right place to discuss everything related to the project. Since I think it is a bit early to discuss what to shoot exactly (the story), 'cos we didn't finish with final product specification and project quality criteria, as I pointed in my comment #53, I don't force 'defining story' task. That doesn't mean it can't start in parallel, but it would be better if we paid more attention to current tasks first - this way we could faster pass through boring organisational phases and get closer to some creative ones, which in turn might attract more participants to the project.

Regard to project quality criteria, I propose to set 24 December as a strict deadline, by which we have to release everything, replacing incomplete composits with placeholders, missing music with white noise or 'nice music is playing on the background' subtitle etc. Then we could set a threshold, with which amount of incomplete elements in our final product the project can still be accepted as successful.

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Guide ,
Oct 13, 2013 Oct 13, 2013

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=============

we didn't finish with final product specification and project quality criteria

=============

I can live with the 24 DEC deadline, and agree we can make that work with placeholders etc...just use imagination to fill that in.

As for final specs.... I think a 60 sec tv commercial is the basic. I think the supporting PR and print ads is too much work depending on how many people are involved. I am horrible at page design ...those guys ( art directors ) that do that stuff are way good. I suck at that. But I might be able to do something better than nothing.  Some print ads might come out of the motion stuff anyway.  Lets play that by ear right now.

So spec wise.. I'm thinking do the 60 secs.. the shorter versions can come out of that if there's time ( 30sec, 15sec etc ).

Quality I am leaning toward 1080p 24 fps, with broadcast safe gamma, color etc. regardless of the delivery ( web, cine, tv ).

I dont have monitors calibrated and being in the ballpark of broadcast safe seems to be the best chance of not screwing up whoever is gonna edit the clips from multiple sources.

I suggest we share mp4 clips somewhere ( website or  youtube or vimeo etc ) so that only those clips that FIT the final edit need to be UL and DL at full res...at some FTP site ... can use mine if we want... with ID and password to that FTP site.

It is already the middle of OCT and there is not a lot of time left to 24 DEC... so lets make these decisions now.

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Guide ,
Oct 13, 2013 Oct 13, 2013

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ps...

I just installed cs6 PSD and audition on mouse....so I can at least do some work on mouse with basic stuff....everything else on pig and pig is not on internet...

I like the new mouse but am severely limited due to programs I lost....when I installed win 7 from XP.

Vikings need help ....they should eat more BEEF

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Guide ,
Oct 13, 2013 Oct 13, 2013

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just chkd email and got one from project where you said you propose the 24 dec date..

keep doing that.. take control of that... I dont need to respond unless we do it here in this thread... that way the zoho thing is admin by you and there is a continuity there....if things need to get changed etc at zoho.. you do that..

okay ? I'm good to go...

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Guest
Oct 13, 2013 Oct 13, 2013

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OK, let's check all other items in the final product list and ensure their specification is complete (clear and sufficient).

Let's define a threshold for amount of incomplete elements. E.g. if we managed to complete 90% of all elements we had planned, we did succeed. Also we can assign weights to all those elements, depending on their complexity. We can't do that right now, because we don't have our story and hence storyboard etc., but we can define general approach and that is enough to this phase.

And let's wait another one day for Steve and then take a decision to officially close current project phase.

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Guide ,
Oct 13, 2013 Oct 13, 2013

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sounds good..

I just put win7 on mouse as you know.. and this is a lot of new stuff on mouse now..

put cs6 audition and ps and bridge into mouse just now...and flash, acrobat, QT all that junk...and am getting it up to speed ..

Just installed coreFTP lite ( a simple ftp program that is free )....

I use that to ul and dl stuff to my website and ftp sites I create on that web server... not my isp.. is where my domain name thing is ...

mostly I use that website to create ftp sites for individuals to share stuff... as I have no limit re: bytes....can be large files..

users have to be able to get by their isp site limitations to use that feature...get large files, send large files..

anyway, I just set that up again... so if we need we can use that to xfer files...but it is very security sensitive. I would NOT give this info to some people .. if you get my drift ....

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Guide ,
Oct 13, 2013 Oct 13, 2013

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chris duncan, bill hunt and powerbydesign has had this ftp info in the past....all trustworthy etc.

ps.. edit....

even though they are warthogs !

whoops.. I just realized.. Bill didnt use the ftp info and sent stuff via mail to me instead ? I dont remember...but he had the info etc but I dont think he actually used it...sorry Bill.. I didnt know how to use that dropbox stuff you turned me onto ...

Anywho, the point is , some people can be trusted with stuff no matter what.

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Guide ,
Oct 13, 2013 Oct 13, 2013

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if you look at this without listening to the sound... and think back a few months...about how exciting the media was about this moron.... and check out how sick this is... you will realize why I DONT WANNA DO ANYTHING LIKE THIS....

http://www.youtube.com/user/officialpsy

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