News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max

[lasvideo]

Join us today at our #AdobeMAX keynote, live at 9:30 a.m. PT with CEO Shantanu Narayen and SVP @DWadhwani: http://adobe.ly/AdobeNext

[tclark513]

With other subscription models such as antivirus software, if you stop paying for virus updates, your antivirus software does not stop working. It will still check for viruses right up the last definitions you were subscribed to for as long as you like. It does not call the mothership for permission to work. It's not Adobe's subscription model itself that is so wrong. If Adobe's CC worked the same way as antivirus subscription software, I'd be all over it like a cheap suit. It's that when you no longer subscribe, you've lost all access to your own work. That's just ludicrous.

For those that have only used the CC rental scheme, then that's fine. That's what they signed up for and cannot reasonably expect anything more. For those that had bought previous CS suites - especially the latest CS6 - if they sign up for the CC deal, and if they decide to drop out, the software they last used should continue to work - with no further updates - as they last used it in the cloud. Just like antivirus software. That would be a fair deal.

Here is a great summery from another poster on a different forum.

[Steven L. Gotz]

It is only a fair deal if the software was paid for in the first place. So, if you paid for a copy of CC, or upgraded from CS6, then you should get to keep everything up until you stop paying. Then the software should be capped and you could continue to use it as is.

You could only get the newer software if you either decided to pay the full price again (minus any discounts based on how long you went without paying) or simply subscribed. But when you stop subscribing the new software stops working.

Most people are in that situation.  Not me.

I just started renting instead of paying for CS6. So as far as I am concerned, I don't deserve to keep what I have been renting.

If I  had paid for CS6, I would probably be ranting a bit myself.  But some people assume that we are all in the same boat. We are certainly not.

If JFPhoton was talking about me, he should probably spell my name the way I do. It isn't difficult. And I certainly understood his point. I just don't see the need for him to rant about the same thing over and over again.

We get it. You are about to be shafted. So change software. It isn't that hard. Or buy CS6 if you don't already own it and milk it for the next ten years or so until you just have to get with the times, whatever is current in 2023.

We are just users here. Only a few Adobe people even read these forums. They all seem to read the feature requests though.

So, my suggestion is to submit feature requests. Ask for "Save as CS6" in Premiere Pro. Other apps will have it, why not Premiere Pro?

Ask for a way to officially upgrade to CC at an appropriate and historically average price so that you could then keep your software when you stop paying.

Ask for fair pricing.

Ask for anything you want. Just ask it where it might do some good.

[Biggles Lamb]

Stephen

You are totally wrong. 

The Adobe cloud system should be such that once you have subscribed to the Cloud for a period of time equal to the cost of the software then if you cease subscribing your software will continue to work

Since you have paid a cost equivalent to the cost of the software your comment ...........I don't deserve to keep what I have been renting................ is wrong you DO deserve to keep on being able to use it

Please remember that those of us who have actually paid for the software, in my case for 20 years, do not have any financial model where it is value for money for the cloud model..............every eighteen months we are paying $350 for upgrading Production Premium Suite (from CS5,5 to CS6, current price from Videoguys) so on the cloud at $50/month in 18 months I pay $900......................even the most ardent supporter of the Cloud just cannot fail to see that that is just not value for money by any criteria on this planet

[tclark513]

"Since you have paid a cost equivalent to the cost of the software your comment ...........I don't deserve to keep what I have been renting................ is wrong you DO deserve to keep on being able to use it"

So true!!!!

[Steven L. Gotz]

You are missing something very important.

First of all, please stop spelling my name wrong. It is a bit odd when you do that and I don't understand why you, and others, insist on doing it. I don't spell yours wrong when I spell it at all. I could spell yours Biggie Sheep but that would just be wrong, wouldn't it?

Second, you seem to make the assumption that I am renting the same software all of the time. I am not. They keep upgrading it and I never pay for the upgrade. If I were to be charged for the upgrades along with the rent that would be different.  

Your statement "a period of time equal to the cost of the software" is a valid point, but it would be a very long time. Even if I was paying the full $50 per month it would be over four years of renting before I  paid the $2500 for just the Master Collection. And there are programs I am using that are not included in that collection, so I would have to pay even more than $2500.  Then I would have to pay for the upgrades along the way. That would take me to around six years for a breakeven point if I estimate the Adobe prices and price increases correctly.

So, six years to breakeven. Adobe is taking the long view of this and waiting patiently to get my money. Speaking of money, please do not forget the concept of the "future value of money". I am not paying up front so the rental charge has to account for them letting me use software that I am paying for over time. Interest must be charged, so to speak.

If Adobe follows my suggestion and creates a model whereby an exit strategy is possible, then it would be possible to give me a discount on the price required to keep my software. That would be more fair, certainly.

In your case, you are correct that the financial model is broken. You have already paid your entrance fee and should not have to pay anything more than the upgrade fee for CC when you subscribe in order to be able to keep what you have when you stop subscribing. But we were talking about me, not you. Your situation is different than mine.

[excited_Genie16B8]

once you have subscribed to the Cloud for a period of time equal to the cost of the software then if you cease subscribing your software will continue to work

How does Adobe keep track of that?  With CS6 there is a defined feature set.  Adobe knows what it costs retail.  But going forward, there will be no milestones, no well defined 'version' with a fixed set of features and a fixed price for that feature set.  So how does Adobe keep track of when your subscription is 'equal', when there's nothing left for it to equal?

[John T Smith]

Over in http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1208496?tstart=0 I think the idea was to pick an arbitrary date of Jan 1st every year as the point to create an archive of what is current at that time, and then someone who stops paying for CC, they may have a perpetual license for the Jan 1st version of two years prior... this would be after at least 3 years of renting the CC

[Biggles Lamb]

Jim

I do not care how Adobe would keep track of it, its their problem. 

They are not getting any subscription from me until there is changes to the rental cost and there is a promise that the software I have rented will continue to work after the end of my rental period if I have rented it for X period of time

p.s sorry Steven for the incorrect spelling

[Kevin-Monahan]

Biggles Lamb wrote:

Jim

I do not care how Adobe would keep track of it, its their problem. 

They are not getting any subscription from me until there is changes to the rental cost and there is a promise that the software I have rented will continue to work after the end of my rental period if I have rented it for X period of time

p.s sorry Steven for the incorrect spelling

Hello Biggles Lamb,

Tell the product team what you are thinking: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

That's the best way to let us know what you want.

Best,

Kevin

[Biggles Lamb]

Kevin

Requested

[John T Smith]

>Tell the product team

I did, with a link to the idea that I posted in #784

I received a reply from "Shivangi Moitra from Adobe Global Customer Service Escalation Team"

I'm not going to post the entire email here, but "paraphrased" he said he was sorry that I was not happy with the change, and he then went on to list all the benefits of the Cloud

He said that my idea "has been forwarded to the appropriate team"

At this point, that is all I can do... well, that and not subscribe to the Cloud

[Kevin-Monahan]

John T Smith wrote:

>Tell the product team

I did, with a link to the idea that I posted in #784

I received a reply from "Shivangi Moitra from Adobe Global Customer Service Escalation Team"

I'm not going to post the entire email here, but "paraphrased" he said he was sorry that I was not happy with the change, and he then went on to list all the benefits of the Cloud

He said that my idea "has been forwarded to the appropriate team"

At this point, that is all I can do... well, that and not subscribe to the Cloud

Which product team did you send that to?

[John T Smith]

Ah... I went to the 'wish' link and selected Premiere Pro from the list... I think... took just a few seconds and I didn't make any particular note (paper or mental) of the product I selected

I just wanted to send the "exit strategy" link... which I'm told will be read by "someone"

I have already said that I don't think user comments will change Adobe's new policy, but I did want to do my part

What I think will have a chance of changing Adobe's policy is IF the stock price falls and/or IF revenue falls

I really do not think that upper management at ANY company really listens to their customers all that much... but they DO pay attention to the stock price and revenue

Let one or both of those drop, and then someone "high up" at Adobe will pay attention to the customers

[excited_Genie16B8]

I do not care how Adobe would keep track of it, its their problem. 

Only if they actually do it.

My point was to get you to think about what you're asking for, and how reasonable it may be for Adobe to implement.  I mean, you can always ask for the stars, but requests probably have a much higher chance of success when they're practical.

[jabra27]

I've learned in the past that you really shouldn't complain about how something works until you can give a "solution" to the problem you see.

So the basic easy solution to all this is that Adobe should continue to produce and sell the CS as they always have (perpetual license), while promoting the cloud full force.

Another possible solution...

From this point on, offer a CS for purchase (perpetual license) that is download only. This would save on the production costs of the box and discs.

The perpetual license version would be updated once a year, like Jan. 1st. So with the launch of CC would come the launch of "CS7". The next "CS" (perpetual license version) would not be available until Jan. 1st, 2014

If Adobe truly plans on updating/upgrading/adding features through out the year as they have said, then CC members could be using "CS8 or 9" within months. The perpetual license holders would have to wait until the first of the year.

Cost - CC is the $50 a month. If, after a full year, a CC member wishes to end their subscription they would be allowed to purchase a perpetual license version which would include 5 programs for $300.00. (half of a year's subscription) Each additional program would be $50. This would need to be done within the month of January. After that, the CC member must keep their subscription, or lose access at the point of leaving. The member would then be able to either reinstate their subscription, or wait until the Jan. 1st to purchase the perpetual license version.

Non CC members and former cloud members - The cost of the CS version would be $500 minimum for 5 programs, additional programs would be $100 each. (This makes Adobe more money. CS6 Master Collection is $525 for upgrade and includes 15 programs at $35 per program. )

So there's my solution. Thoughts?

[Steven L. Gotz]

I am not sure about your prices, they don't sound high enough for Adobe to benefit, but the concept is certainly sound. 

I just don't see why they can't lock down what you already have on your PC as a perpetual license at any time, but I do see why they might not have a copy of it on their servers if you ever needed it again. But they could if they wanted to.

I think that getting people to pay a fee for leaving the subscription and moving on to another product is a wonderful idea that will make Adobe more money in the long run. And in the short run, it will eliminate so many of the objections that many more people will sign up in June. Where is the down side for them?

[excited_Genie16B8]

If Adobe truly plans on updating/upgrading/adding features through out the year as they have said, then CC members could be using "CS8 or 9" within months. The perpetual license holders would have to wait until the first of the year.

That's not much different from their original plans, though, which they seem to have changed their minds about doing.

So there's my solution. Thoughts?

Barring a full reversal from Adobe, I think the most realistic option at this point might well be the "Save as CS6 File..." feature in all versions going forward.

[Biggles Lamb]

I had a look earlier at the CC forum, my what a lot of disgruntled subscribers, its worth checking out.

OK so it is now the 17th June and Adobe have released the updates, is the Adobe system capable of handling the 500,000 existing subscribers all logging in on the same day to download the update?

Not to mention all those who are going to download the trial version just to see what they are missing

[excited_Genie16B8]

is the Adobe system capable of handling the 500,000 existing subscribers all logging in on the same day to download the update?

We'll find out on the 17th, I guess.

[Corelogik]

Not to get caught inthe minutiae of things but it really is this simple.

As it stands, you subscribe to CC use the apps as normal, work on/create your projects happily and life goes on. At some point you stop paying for CC (whatever the reason, specific reasons don't matter at all) and all your apps turn off.

Now, all of your files are uselss, unless you start paying Adobe again. This condition will not set in right away, but over time as version skew sets in, sooner or later, projects and files created in new versions WILL NOT be usable with full integrity in older versions. Period. It's an undeniable, undisputable fact and everyone knows it.

Now, a solution.

Adobe needs to snapshot CC once a year. Call that snapshot whatever CS version you like. Offer those CS versions for sale with the normal pricing and licensing model as now.

If you are a CC subscriber, you have access to those CS versions with a discount of your subscription fees up to a maximum of $1200 to $1800.

So if the snapshot CSX costs $2500 @ retail, and you've been subscribing to CC for a year, you get $600 off, can pay the difference and get a perpetual license version. 2 years subscription, $1200 off, 3 years or more $1800 off etc, etc,..

This gives long time customers a rational, fairly priced perpetual license, so their NOT locked into a permanent rental model.

However, I suspect this will never happen because Adobes move here has nothing to do with delivering updates, fixes or new features, it is all about profit and increaing their revenue.

CC will also have exactly zero impact on pirates. Some enterprising hacker will come up with a way to prevent CC form phoning home to validate, or to spoof a validation and that's all she wrote, piracy will continue a pace as normal.

The point that most people are making is, they don't want JUST the subscription model. Some of us are ok with being a year or two behind, as long as we can pay once and then it works "forever". We have nothing against the subscription model except that it doesn't work for US, and most of our issues with having a subscription model only is NOT about the price of it.

And yes, international customers have been getting screwed for years, and it looks like CC is just a way for Adobe to screw them more frequently.

[Biggles Lamb]

Your solution is only valid for new users

Those of us who are existing CS users buy upgrades to the next CS version every 18 months

I would argue that for the majority of editors the CS Production Premium is all they need and at an upgrade cost of c$500 would be typical and so at $50 per month we should receive a rebate not pay an additional fee as over the 18 months CS cycle we would have paid a we bit more than than the upgrade $500 bucks ($900 in fact)

That is profiteering that Gordon Gekko would have been proud to achieve

[Corelogik]

Agreed. Unfortunately, there isn't going to be any one solution that makes everyone happy, and offering the subscription fee as a discount is better than no perpetual license at all. Also keep in mind that Adobe considers it's new subscription model the only model. For them, there is no "Upgrade user" vs "New user" the 'upgrade price' that existing CS users get is miniscule in the scheme of things. For Adobe going forward, there is no 'upgrade user path' only subscription or not.

Adobe could of course just stick to their guns and tell us all to deal with it. I'm trying to find an alternative that works, even if not exactly fair for everyone.

I am in your boat though, while I don't use Premiere Pro much, I do buy and upgrade the MC and have for years. I'm more or less an upgrader having paid my entrance fee for a full suite a long long time ago.

[lasvideo]

Im still a BIG fan of Adobe CS6. Here are 20, 000 folks that feel quite differently about the Creative Cloud.

[the_wine_snob]

I did not follow along, but there is a site, dedicated to Adobe Photoshop CS 6, that got about 20,000 signatures for a petition on not eliminating the perpetual licenses, in favor of full CC licensing. Not sure what it is up to today, as I looked at it maybe two days ago.

Some are very pleased with the CC aspect, while others are not.

How any of this might affect anything, is a "we'll see" situation.

I am almost positive that there are several Adobe "number crunchers," who are doing surveys 24/7, to try to judge the market's reaction - the software market, and not the NASDAC, or the NYSE markets. Those will be secondary, at best. Hope that most are hourly employees, as I think that there WILL be overtime involved.

As I am a fan of Adobe (though not yet the CC concept), I hope that the correct decisions are made.

Hunt

[Steven L. Gotz]

Too true.

Your solution is only valid for new users

Too true.

The financials are completely different for new CC users versus long time users who have already purchased CS6.

I have stated before that existing subscribers should be given the chance to upgrade to CC at the same price they paid to upgrade to CS6. Then every payment would just be towards using the newer features as they come along and the ownership of the product, an exit strategy, would be available at the end of the subscription.

New CC users should be given a chance to pay some sort of fee based on the duration of their subscription to buy what they have been renting.

It can't be that hard technically difficult to do. It just can't be.