News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max

[lasvideo]

Join us today at our #AdobeMAX keynote, live at 9:30 a.m. PT with CEO Shantanu Narayen and SVP @DWadhwani: http://adobe.ly/AdobeNext

[Andy Bay]

Evil Edison, Blender 3D is an alternative to AE. In fact Blender is now everything AE should have been years ago. It has physics, real 3d meshes, nodes, layers, masking, ray-tracing, motion tracking, rigging, inverse kinematics, particles, particle hair, smoke and fire simulation, liquid simulation and even a game engine. And it's free. And it's improving more in 3 months than AE in 3 years.

[ntreuter]

Is this article -- http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57583370-92/how-greedy-is-adobes-creative-cloud-subscription-not-ve...

Accurate?

It says they have sold twice as many Cloud subscriptions as they have CS6 licenses. Didn't I hear something like 500k people were using the Cloud earlier, that jumped to 12 mil?

Adobe has sold 12.8 million software subscriptions compared to 5.6 million CS6 product licenses, according to Jefferies analyst Ross MacMillan.

[Kevin-Monahan]

ntreuter wrote:

Is this article -- http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57583370-92/how-greedy-is-adobes-crea tive-cloud-subscription-not-v...

Accurate?

It says they have sold twice as many Cloud subscriptions as they have CS6 licenses. Didn't I hear something like 500k people were using the Cloud earlier, that jumped to 12 mil?

Adobe has sold 12.8 million software subscriptions compared to 5.6 million CS6 product licenses, according to Jefferies analyst Ross MacMillan.

That's over 500,000 Creative Cloud subscriptions. We've been offering subscriptions to our customers for our software since CS3. However, I'm not sure where this analyst is getting his numbers. Contact the author to verify, I guess.

Regarding Creative Cloud numbers, here's what our CEO said, "In Digital Media, we're redefining the creative process with Creative Cloud. We drove strong Creative Cloud adoption in Q1. We exited the quarter with 479,000 paid subscriptions, and recently, we crossed the 0.5 million mark. With this momentum, we are on track to reach our goal of 1.25 million paid subscriptions by the end of this fiscal year."

Hope that helps clear up any confusion.

[Evil Edison]

Andy Bay wrote:

Evil Edison, Blender 3D is an alternative to AE. In fact Blender is now everything AE should have been years ago. It has physics, real 3d meshes, nodes, layers, masking, ray-tracing, motion tracking, rigging, inverse kinematics, particles, particle hair, smoke and fire simulation, liquid simulation and even a game engine. And it's free. And it's improving more in 3 months than AE in 3 years.

Andy, I really like Blender but I would never use it as a replacement for AE.  When it comes to turning things around quickly, nothing beats AE.  Plus, as I've mentioned already, there's the matter of plug-in support an area in which AE has no rival.  If you don't have clients with deadlines breathing down your neck, then maybe you could eke things out with Blender, but I don't have that luxury.

[Andy Bay]

Evil Edison, i give you that much that AE feels faster for some basic work. I will definetly keep AE CS6 around for that kind of stuff.

On the other hand I also know people are using Blender for AE style 2D and 2.5D compositing. You simply need to get used to it. In AE you would import still images and toss them to the timeline. In Blender you can import images as planes and use them in a similar fashion. Plus so much more. You can do photorealistic stuff now with the new cycles render engine. Good luck creating something photorealistic with AE's stock simulation plugins. Now there is also the option to do NPR with the new freehand-system, which looks amazing. 

[tclark513]

Mine too!

lasvideo wrote:

Keano66- Well I am sticking with CS6.

My plans as well.

[rainschub]

Adobe cloud = Designers iTunes

Customer tiing at it´s best.

CC / Office 365 / iTunes...

Once in - No way out!

That´s the game!

[rainschub]

What will be the next idea from Adobe?
inApp gimmicks (can hear their CEO explaining this new cool feature...): Earn coins for creating new documents (or buy some from Adobe....)

(Can see the high glossy Adobe broshures praising that new so cool feature?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78yigV0GYGQ&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67Iw9q2X9cU

[joe_bloe_premiere]

That is a pretty telling "interview" (if you can call it that).

Thanks for posting, rainschub.

2/14/2013

Adobe CEO refuses to answer Australian pricing questions

[Andy Bay]

Adobe stock is crashing down at the moment (just google "adobe stock").

The second post in this thread explains the reasons very well:

http://www.videocopilot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=115296

[TheWarder]

Why do we have to rent the service? I want to own what i pay for… You cant sit here and tell me just cuz you work for Adobe that you think this is fair? That paying adobe for the rest of my life and never recieving a product i accutaly own  if fiar... (not that i will pay a dime to this absurd service)

Also what good are the services to someone like me who just uses Photoshop for hobby purposes. There is no reason for me to save my pictures to the cloud or use any other service your charging me for that are cloud based. What benifit am i getting out of a service i dont want? Please enlighten me. Yes its cool if i was like doing this for a business but im not. I want Photoshop and lightroom period the end nothing else no cloud storage no other BS. If i wanted a service like cloud storage i would buy that service. Now im being forced into a contract and forced to pay for a service I neither want nor use? Not everyone who uses Photoshop is a professional as hard as that may be for you guys to believe…

Im glad the people who are professionals on here and like CC find it awesome thats cool for you. CC is a great deal for bussinesses but guess what there are a lot more people who use PS out there than just perfessionals who play around with this program all day and make money off it. I make no money of the program the only thing i get out of it is the satisfaction of the art i create and share with my friends and family.   So not only are u forcing me to buy into products i dont want you  are increasing my cost by 10 fold. I only need to update Photoshop every two or three versions like i said im just a casual user I dont need every last fancy tool you guys create. Like that new blur tool that gets rid of camera shake like wtf. Seriously who needs that if your a professional and your taking blurry pictures there is something wrogn with you. There are who knows how many tools in PS but guess what we dont need them all. But now you have alienated every last customer who cannot afford this rediculous monthly fee.

All of us average Joe's and people with small bussinesses and who arent working for some gaming company or large studio are geting just socked in the face by forcing us to use CC or nothing. And im sick and tired that every time i point out the price of CC your adobe representitives tell us its   9.99 the real price is 19.99 we all know what an introductory price means were not stupid. And dont sit there and lie to me and tell me that if i dont want to use CC ii can use CS6 the rest of my life you know eventually i would either have to upgrade or go to another company. CS6 will not be a viable option forever. im sick of seeing that excuses on the forum when its obviously not an answer but a way to try and side step the real problem which is adobe. Your just telling us to stick duck tape on the leak of our sinking ship and hope for the best…. 

What really lets me know im getting ripped of is that  since i use more than one program your going to charge me $600 dollars a year for lightroom and photoshop!!! for what!?!?!? A product you will never let me own. Oh wait thats right your also charging me for 10 other programs i never use nor want…I dont understand why you think the cloud is good fit for all your amature customers and small bussinesses. CC is obviously designed for large well to do firms. most people do not need all of those programs so why are you making it sound like were getting a good deal by giving us programs we dont use??

If i wanted those programs i would have purchased them when you used to sell them!!!  Its not a good deal if we dont want them. your purchasing options are totally off base its either one App or you have to buy all Apps…. you have no in between options. Like seriously what genius is running the show around there…… ive never been so upset with a product in my life and have never been so upset as to go and complain about it. I LOVE PHOTOSHOP AND LIGHTROOM and you are absolutely running it and my opinion of it into the ground. 

Edit: if you must copy/paste, please do so under the html tab. Thanks, Kevin Monahan

[KGCW]

As far I know lasvideo does not work for Adobe and do not like the subscription model either.

Try reading the 17 pages of discussion before jumping at people's throat.

[TheWarder]

i only replied to lasvideo because i dont know how to add a post without replying to another post thanks..... I just picked one randomly... i wasnt talking about him but the adobe people ive seen on other forms replying back to us like on http://blogs.adobe.com/photoshopdotcom/2013/05/answering-your-questions-about-photoshop-cc.html

[Mark Mapes]

I just came from an all-hands meeting hosted by the executive vice-president of the Digital Media Business Unit. Both his initial comments and the Q&A were dominated by the Creative Cloud announcement and its aftermath. I think we touched on every major concern and reservation that's been raised in this thread (and, I gather, elsewhere across this forum and others). Two broad-stroke points that are worth sharing:

1. You have been heard. Adobe employees from the rank and file in the trenches up to top executives are reading these threads and noting the recurring themes.
2. Responses are in the works, ranging from clarifications on points of confusion and misinformation to measures that address particular concerns.

So stay tuned. It may be a week or more before all the new information is rolled out. I expect it will collected in some central location. We'll post links here.

[TheWarder]

thanks and no not after reading this i guess ill see what they say. Ill wait and see  if they save face. However i doubt there going to let us keep the software i hope they reconsider i dont want to learn a new program. I like adobe's product or i wouldnt be sitting here crying like a little girl trying to get them to change it. I dont think we would waist our breath complaining if we didnt want change. We would just buy another product and not waist or breath. But the fact is we all love it, less the CC part. I dont mind paying a monthly fee if i get to keep the software. And thanks for the response i have yet to have anyone from adobe reply to anything of mine anywhere.

[woodyherman]

I started editing on computer when Pinnacle 500 was released with a copy of Adobe premiere 6.0. I went to Avid liquid with adobe and the on to Avid Xpress pro.I came back to Adobe when I upgraded to my first dual xeon machine, I stuck with them with my latest dual Xeon Hexcore with 65 gb ram and boxes of hard drives. I will now move back to AVID or even Edius. But no more Adobe. Either the CEO will get a golden parachute and move on or this plan will wok for Adobe. It is not going back at this moment as companies (other than Coke and the new coke) do not back off when you butt is riding on its success. I do think there will be new pricing but by that time like FPX it will be a major market share loss.  I think there are many like me who started with Pinnacle and the added Adobe product. we will see. time to move on

[Steven L. Gotz]

woodyherman,

You are probably right. There is no going back. Let's go forward. Finding a fair price for selling you what you have on your PC based on the number of months you have subscribed to the CC should be a failry easy task.

[tclark513]

Mark Mapes wrote:

I just came from an all-hands meeting hosted by the executive vice-president of the Digital Media Business Unit. Both his initial comments and the Q&A were dominated by the Creative Cloud announcement and its aftermath. I think we touched on every major concern and reservation that's been raised in this thread (and, I gather, elsewhere across this forum and others). Two broad-stroke points that are worth sharing:

1. You have been heard. Adobe employees from the rank and file in the trenches up to top executives are reading these threads and noting the recurring themes.
2. Responses are in the works, ranging from clarifications on points of confusion and misinformation to measures that address particular concerns.

So stay tuned. It may be a week or more before all the new information is rolled out. I expect it will collected in some central location. We'll post links here.

I am real interested in the "measures" that address particular concerns!

[Biggles Lamb]

Steven, you and I definite agree on one point ............the fair price issue. 

I do not mind the subscription thing but definitely not at the prices even during the first year and most certainly not after the second year. 

If the Adobe execs want to save face then let them reduce the subscription amount throughout the usage period and if it has to increase at any time then let it do so only in line with a financial index like the Retail Price index we have here in the UK. 

All I want Is Premiere, Encore, After Effects and Photoshop and to me $50 per year each is a reasonable amount, so over the typical CS product cycle of 18 months I would pay $300, surely that is a fair amount. 

If I want to cease then the software should be able to be given a perpetual license for say a years subscription.

Or, maybe the programmers could look at installing some sort of run time recording system within the software where users paid pro rata according to their usage.

For me the other alternative would be to buy HitFilm which is a combined editor and after effects software for $300 and continue to use the Adobe products that I already have and that way Adobe gets nothing out of me ever, where is the financial sense in that, losing a customer of 20 years

[Steven L. Gotz]

$50 per year each is a reasonable amount,

I am so sorry but that is completely unreasonable for the value received when compared to the current prices. I am not saying it is a bad idea, just that there is no way that would happen. It would amount to the equivalent of a "going out of business" sale.

You would be able to subscribe to your four products for a small fraction of what you could currently buy the package for now. What company is going to reduce it's prices by over 50%? Why would any company do that?

I understand everyone's objections and I agree with many of them, but yours are just completely out of whack.

[tclark513]

tclark513 wrote:

Mark Mapes wrote:

I just came from an all-hands meeting hosted by the executive vice-president of the Digital Media Business Unit. Both his initial comments and the Q&A were dominated by the Creative Cloud announcement and its aftermath. I think we touched on every major concern and reservation that's been raised in this thread (and, I gather, elsewhere across this forum and others). Two broad-stroke points that are worth sharing:

1. You have been heard. Adobe employees from the rank and file in the trenches up to top executives are reading these threads and noting the recurring themes.
2. Responses are in the works, ranging from clarifications on points of confusion and misinformation to measures that address particular concerns.

So stay tuned. It may be a week or more before all the new information is rolled out. I expect it will collected in some central location. We'll post links here.

I am real interested in the "measures" that address particular concerns!

I'm surprised there are not more comments about this post.

[Stu_S]

tclark513 wrote:

tclark513 wrote:

So stay tuned. It may be a week or more before all the new information is rolled out. I expect it will collected in some central location. We'll post links here.

I am real interested in the "measures" that address particular concerns!

I'm surprised there are not more comments about this post.

OK, I'll jump in.  Full disclosure:  while I edited professionally for many years, I'm now a marketing consultant for many big brands; they're in your refrigerator and your portfolio, and I lecture on crisis mgmt. at two prominent Universities.  As someone connected personally to this vertical, this product launch/crisis management train wreck has been particularly fascinating to watch unfold.  So, here's what happens next.

At this juncture, Adobe has two choices.  Choice one:  they  respond with a series of half measures that address some specific concerns, but which do not address the deeper, core issue of lost trust.  This is a common approach, and would certainly follow the pattern so far. "Hey you said you didn't like "x" and "y", so we've met you half way and have addressed these concerns.  That's what you said you wanted.  You trust us again now, right?"  This would represent a logical approach internally, as it would avoid blowing up their carefully crafted business plan of transitioning to a subscription model, which has been in motion for years.  Unfortunately, it's most likely a path towards slow decline, as it won't regain trust, and will allow competitors to all these titles, not just PPro, to attempt to gain a strong foothold in their markets, just, ironically, as Adobe did just a short while ago with Apple.   If they take this path, they will staunch the bleeding, but they take the very serious risk that Premiere will never be the dominant platform in the space.  I don't know the markets of the other titles as well, but I'm sure there are competitors who will use this window of opportunity to try and badly hurt the other brands.

The other choice, which is much harder to do, is to go the Tylenol route.  This is the classic example of successful crisis management that is taught in schools across the country, and for good reason. You can Google it for details, but in short, when a crisis hit, they owned it 100% and worked to address the core issue of trust.  They took a major financial hit in doing so, but it they survived and in the end emerged a stronger brand.  What they'll need to do is very quickly  is recognize that the core issue is lost trust.  Then they'll need to decide whether or not they rolled CC out too soon, too abruptly, and/or if they failed to sell it successfully (the answer to all  is yes). For Adobe, this will be hard to do, as the subscription model is deeply entrenched in their business plan; lots of folks in the C-suite have drunk the Kool Aid, and to back pedal means losing face.  If they have the courage to recognize it and are able to back way off, they can get this under control and be seen a responsive and trustworthy.  Customers will forgive, but it will need to be earned.  But a sharp right turn is a hard thing for a corporation to navigate, they're big and slow and turn like the Titanic, which often has unfortunate results.

So stay tuned indeed, its a fascinating show.

[Steven L. Gotz]

I don't exactly disagree with you Stu, but I really believe that all they need is an exit strategy - a way to buy a perpetual license for what you currently use at any point in time - and the vast majority of people will just back off, sign up, and be happy. As long as they know they can buy what they have and get a discount for the longevity of their subscription, Adobe will make more money than if they let all these people down.

It is the purpose of a corporation to make money. How they do that is by getting and retaining customers. If they also find a way to get money out of customers they can't retain, so much the better.

[Harm_Millaard]

Steven,

I agree with you. To make the situation a bit simpler, see:

The problem is that there is no exit-strategy. What if you already paid two years of 'rental' and decide to get out? You can't. You can no longer access your own copywrited work. A rather simple solution would be to give the following options to customers:

1. Buy CS7 and pay the full amount.
2. Get a CCM subscription for one year.
3. After one year, you can choose to:
   1. Renew your CCM subscription for another year, or
   2. Buy out of the rental model, buy the full CS7 version at full price, minus X % of paid rental amounts.
4. After another year offer the same options, etc.

That could be a nice exit strategy for both Adobe and customers, but they first have to solve the pricing disparity in various countries.

[Steven L. Gotz]

I think the subscription methos is the way to go for almost everyone, they just need an exit strategy - one that few people will ever use as long as the software gets better and better over time.

If you were willing to pay the full upgrade price for CC just llike it was CS7, and still subscribe monthly to get all of the little changes along the way, knowing that you could use the exit strategy of capping your software where it is, then the problem would be solved. You would have paid for it and Adobe could easily allow you to keep any additions since you have been paying for them monthly.

Those who pay $2500 up front (a lot less if you are upgrading when they sign up for CC would never have to worry about the software being shut off for lack of payment. It would continue to work but you could not get updates and your Behance and Prosite and other online storage accounts would terminate after 30 days.

That seems logical to me. Those of us who did not pay up front would lose out, and those who planned ahead would be happy. At any point in time a user could buy into the program for $2500 minus a certain percentage determined by the length of their subscription. Basically like paying for one last upgrade.

I don't worry about those who use three or more programs. I am a bit concerned about a Photoshop user who never wanted or needed any other app. Photoshop is a standard. Moving to something else could be traumatic, I would imagine. I know $20 per month isn't too bad. But if they use Photoshop and Illustrator, now they are at $40 and the have to make a serious decision since for $10 more they get the whole thing.

In any case, the pricing in other countries has to be fair.  Personally, I would love to see the price of software tied to the national standard of living as well as the exchange rate. Let people in poor countries participate for less money. The people do better, the situation improves, and you can raise your prices as things improve.  That guy in Tibet I talked about who had a monthly income of $25. Shouldn't he deserve a break? Now, I don't include the cost of translation. If they want the huge discount they have to use the US or Great Britain versions. Or one of the other more standard versions like German or Italian or Spanish or French.  Or Chinese for goodness sake.

Once again, it might be money that they never got before. Give up one full price subscription for ten or twenty at 20% of the original cost.

I get the difference in taxes and maybe that there are hidden costs of doing business - but it has to be fair and they should be open about how they arrive at their pricing when it differs from country to country.